The more you think about it and see photos, it was a dirty hit..

emoney_33 · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
These plays have happened hundreds of times without injury (even to our Tom Brady), stop with completely unfounded assertions to the contrary.

hundreds? Get me even 2 videos of a player LUNGING at a qb's knees...

lusdawg · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
WATCH THE PLAY AGAIN. He did not "reach his arms out", he LUNGED his entire body in a direct stream to Brady's knee.

So you are saying that Morris HAD to get off him and that he SHOULD have lunged at Brady's knees and not get up? Yea that's not friggin asking for more QB injuries or anything. Seriously, listen to yourself. IT WAS DIRTY...

Lunging at the knees, whether starting from standing or lying, is dirty period.

Pollard was lunging at the same time Brady stepped into his throw. Watch the play again. Pollard forgot his "Go Go Gadget Arms", so he had no choice but to lunge to try to get closer to make a tackle with his stubby arms..

bradmahn · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
You must be a lawyer...

Was the horse collar tackle dirty, or even wrong, before it was made a rule against it?

The rule is the only completely agreed upon thing that we have by which we can judge "dirty." When you expect everyone to have the same values (i.e., knowing that a horse collar tackle is a ****ty way to tackle because it elevates undue risk of injury), you allow room for "dirty" play.

It is completely irrelevant to this debate.

And no, I am not a lawyer.

emoney_33 · Sep 8, 2008

lusdawg said:
Pollard was lunging at the same time Brady stepped into his throw. Watch the play again. Pollard forgot his "Go Go Gadget Arms", so he had no choice but to lunge to try to get closer to make a tackle with his stubby arms..

Doesn't make it the right decision, nor a clean play. poor decision, dirty play.

Manslaughter, neglect.. etc.

bradmahn · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
hundreds? Get me even 2 videos of a player LUNGING at a qb's knees...

Get them yourself.

You could easily find 2 videos of a quarterback being brought down from below the knee without an injury if you made the effort.

PAPatsjunkie · Sep 8, 2008

NFL just deemed the Pollard play legal. Bulls*it.

JSn · Sep 8, 2008

NFL just ruled it clean. Case closed.

emoney_33 · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
Get them yourself.

You could easily find 2 videos of a quarterback being brought down from below the knee without an injury if you made the effort.

Burden of proof falls on you, not me.

Deus Irae · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
Get them yourself.

You could easily find 2 videos of a quarterback being brought down from below the knee without an injury if you made the effort.

If it makes you feel better, the NFL officials are saying it was within the rules.

lusdawg · Sep 8, 2008

Doesn't make me feel better about the injury, but I do feel better that Pollard wasn't wrongly punished for doing his job of tackling a player with the ball under league rules.

goterriers · Sep 8, 2008

The NFL said it was legal??? This is the greatest outrage in the history of sports. First they take away our first round draft pick, now the greatest QB ever. Robert Kraft needs to get Goodell's head on a pike.

bradmahn · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
Burden of proof falls on you, not me.

You're saying it unequivocally equals an injury, I'm saying it doesn't.

You're attempting to argue an absolute. Burden of proof falls on you.

I'm sure the NFL Offices, the same offices that just deemed it legal, could explain this concept to you as I see I have clearly failed.

Or maybe they can't and that's your problem.

bradmahn · Sep 8, 2008

Deus Irae said:
If it makes you feel better, the NFL officials are saying it was within the rules.

Feel better? What? That I was right in an internet argument?

Yup.

Loads.

Deus Irae · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
Feel better? What? That I was right in an internet argument?

Yup.

Loads.

I'm not sure it means you're right about all the points people were making (you're still wrong under the Wilfork interpretation which I was talking about), but you go with that.

Metaphors · Sep 8, 2008

Ignoring the whole dirty/clean argument (which is pointless), if that type of play is implicitly or explicitly encouraged by the league, any team could come up with a middle blitz package and take out any QB in the league. At worst, they would risk a 15 yard penalty in the attempt. Ethics aside, that would seem to be worth it in order to face a Sorgi-led Colts team.

And once one team does it and profits as a result, you have the Chicago gangster rules. You knock our QB out of the game, we knock yours out for the season. Does anyone want to see that?

To be honest, I thought the league was pretty clear that they never wanted to see a player like Carson Palmer lost after getting crushed in the knee while exposed in the pocket. I'm not pushing for Pollard to be suspended/fined per se, just expecting the league to put out a strong statement about not going low after a QB in the pocket. Just seems like common sense to me. At least something good may come out of this suckish situation.

If the league puts out a statement that the play was totally legal and says nothing to discourage the same type of play in the future, could someone please save the statement for when the same thing happens to Favre, Goober or Romo. I'm sure Polian and Jerry Jones will be ever so understanding and fully support whichever young man happens to "unintentionally" destroy their season.

emoney_33 · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
You're saying it unequivocally equals an injury, I'm saying it doesn't.

You're attempting to argue an absolute. Burden of proof falls on you.

I'm sure the NFL Offices, the same offices that just deemed it legal, could explain this concept to you as I see I have clearly failed.

Or maybe they can't and that's your problem.

Whatever you say. You claim lunges at knees happen all the time without injuries (hundreds you say), but can't provide even one video proving it has happened once. It happens hundreds but you can't prove it has happened once.

The league screws up again in a patriot related matter... what a damn shocker.

bradmahn · Sep 8, 2008

Metaphors said:
Ignoring the whole dirty/clean argument (which is pointless), if that type of play is implicitly or explicitly encouraged by the league, any team could come up with a middle blitz package and take out any QB in the league. At worst, they would risk a 15 yard penalty in the attempt. Ethics aside, that would seem to be worth it in order to face a Sorgi-led Colts team.

And once one team does it and profits as a result, you have the Chicago gangster rules. You knock our QB out of the game, we knock yours out for the season. Does anyone want to see that?

To be honest, I thought the league was pretty clear that they never wanted to see a player like Carson Palmer lost after getting crushed in the knee while exposed in the pocket. I'm not pushing for Pollard to be suspended/fined per se, just expecting the league to put out a strong statement about not going low after a QB in the pocket. Just seems like common sense to me. At least something good may come out of this suckish situation.

If the league puts out a statement that the play was totally legal and says nothing to discourage the same type of play in the future, could someone please save the statement for when the same thing happens to Favre, Goober or Romo. I'm sure Polian and Jerry Jones will be ever so understanding and fully support whichever young man happens to "unintentionally" destroy their season.

I suppose I disagree with your take on the "injury to QB" fear of the NFL. The NFL can only guard against unnecessary injuries. The rule they wrote after Palmer got hurt is intended to do just that (uninterrupted path that results in a hit to the lower legs).

Brady's taken shots to his knees and lower legs like this before (and we've held our breath for fear of just such an outcome) and popped up afterward. This time it was too much (you can see his knee straining under the pressure right before the ACL pops and his knee buckles).

Unless some team designs for their players to get blocked to the ground before crawling to the quarterback, I don't think this one is going to result in a league-wide change in the approach to pass-rushing great quarterbacks. I could be wrong on that, though.

emoney_33 · Sep 8, 2008

bradmahn said:
I suppose I disagree with your take on the "injury to QB" fear of the NFL. The NFL can only guard against unnecessary injuries. The rule they wrote after Palmer got hurt is intended to do just that (uninterrupted path that results in a hit to the lower legs).

Uhh you do know that it was NOT an uninterrupted path that resulted in Palmer's injury right so you are way off on your comment here. Again you are just forcing it.

Brady's taken shots to his knees and lower legs like this before (and we've held our breath for fear of just such an outcome) and popped up afterward. This time it was too much (you can see his knee straining under the pressure right before the ACL pops and his knee buckles).

Unless some team designs for their players to get blocked to the ground before crawling to the quarterback, I don't think this one is going to result in a league-wide change in the approach to pass-rushing great quarterbacks. I could be wrong on that, though.

Let's say a blitzer "slips", now he's on the ground. An OL or RB is in his vicinity and would like to keep him down... You have already said in this situation, the defender SHOULD lunge at the qb's knees to make a play. So let's just coach Mayo or Bruschi to slip and lunge.

40yrpatsfan · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
Whatever you say. You claim lunges at knees happen all the time without injuries (hundreds you say), but can't provide even one video proving it has happened once. It happens hundreds but you can't prove it has happened once.

The league screws up again in a patriot related matter... what a damn shocker.

To me, that's an illegal hit. He was blocked to the ground and Morris was still in contact with him, but then somewhat freed himself and deliberately lunged at Brady's shin-knee area without being pushed or knocked in that direction. He was in control of himself at the time of the hit, plain and simple. Aiello says he was blocked into Brady, but he clearly wasn't.

Doggin94it · Sep 8, 2008

emoney_33 said:
show me the rule that states it is OK to hit a QB in the knees as long as you start from the ground.

I'm going to try a nice excuse if I get caught drinking and driving, " I was just tryna make a play and get home not hurt anyone. "

The rule was posted. It's illegal to flagrantly aim at a QB's legs when a rusher is unimpeded. When a rusher is impeded, they can aim wherever they want (except helmet to helmet, or spearing, etc.)

The more you think about it and see photos, it was a dirty hit..

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