Roster Thoughts

[bradmahn]

He was a vet min signing, so it's not the same as blowing it with a big signing bonus and cap hit, and he was obviously fighting for a spot, since he lost it. Right on two counts.

However, to say that they didn't "expect much from him other than what they got, competition" is to understate their error. If that was true, they would have played him late in games, just like Hobson and let Wheatley and LSanders, who both made the roster, get more of the starting snaps against the better competition. I'm saying that until late in the preseason they thought he would start. And that was a mistake.

My feeling is they cut two guys, Jackson and Bryant, who showed no guts and no hustle, and they kept guys like Ventrone, who are all heart. It sends a clear message that this team will finish. Finish means finishing tackles, finishing plays, something neither Bryant nor Jackson did.

Uh, is it out of the question that they had him starting the preseason games because they wanted to evaluate his tackling abilities against live competition?

This is an assumption, but that's what looked to be his downfall. I would have thought the front office knew his major weaknesses before they signed him (I think that was considered one of them) and wanted to evaluate how those weaknesses worked within their scheme (where strong tackling corners are at a premium).

In my opinion, he was signed to see if he'd work out, not because they expected him to start. The preseason was still a measure of how he was working out.

 

[Metaphors]

However, to say that they didn't "expect much from him other than what they got, competition" is to understate their error.

This is the part I don't get. Team building by definition requires you to get rid of players. So is every player that is cut an "error"? I'm not naive enough to believe that player acquisition errors don't occur, but this just seems to be a case where Bryant was beaten out for a spot by players better suited for the scheme. If a player is cut and a better player takes his place, isn't that exactly how you want to build a team?

I see player acquisition errors actually costing the team some organizational assets (cap space, roster spot, draft choice, game/practice reps, etc.) that could be spent on someone else. I don't see Bryant as an error since he never prevented the Pats from dedicating resources somewhere else. The Pats have had their share of errors, but I have a hard time see this as anything but normal camp competition.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

- PS players activated for a game are usually "brought up" the day before.
- To "send down" a player you first have to waive him, wait 24 hours to see if any other club claims him, then you can re-sign him to the PS.
- PS players can be signed by any other club, the difference between being on the PS and waivers is they can turn down offers or allow the Pats to counter the offer - waivers anyone can claim them and pay them league minimum (which I'd gladly settle for in any given year!).
- Players currently on the PS can be released and a new player signed in their place. BB/SP adjust the PS all through the season based on team training/depth needs.

If I'm not mistaken, if a player is claimed off waivers, then the claiming team must honor his "current contract" as written.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If I'm not mistaken, if a player is claimed off waivers, then the claiming team must honor his "current contract" as written.

You're probably right, though I'd think most won't be getting any more than league minimum. Thanks.

 

[PatsFan37]

In my opinion, he was signed to see if he'd work out, not because they expected him to start. The preseason was still a measure of how he was working out.

I don't see Bryant as an error since he never prevented the Pats from dedicating resources somewhere else. The Pats have had their share of errors, but I have a hard time see this as anything but normal camp competition.

So if I asked both of you last Thursday who you thought would start at corner that night, you would have said Bryant. And if asked you who you thought would be cut, you'd say, of course, Bryant. Because that's normal camp competition, and it makes perfect sense to start a player in all the preseason games and then cut him, so you can start a rookie. Don't keep him as a backup for the vet minimum, this guy who started for the entire camp, but cut him. This is normal and no one made a mistake in thinking he might, you know, beat anyone for a roster spot.

You should listen to yourselves.

 

[NEPatriot]

our current roster is not there yet. BB tries to make his final tweak and hopefully, we have a good roster.

 

[Metaphors]

So if I asked both of you last Thursday who you thought would start at corner that night, you would have said Bryant. And if asked you who you thought would be cut, you'd say, of course, Bryant. Because that's normal camp competition, and it makes perfect sense to start a player in all the preseason games and then cut him, so you can start a rookie. Don't keep him as a backup for the vet minimum, this guy who started for the entire camp, but cut him. This is normal and no one made a mistake in thinking he might, you know, beat anyone for a roster spot.

You should listen to yourselves.

I obviously didn't think Bryant would be cut, but I also don't see him in practice. If he was cut for his play in the preseason games, Hobbs would be cut right along with him.

Now lets see if I can figure out what you are trying to say. I think you are saying that Bryant started the preseason games so that made him #2 on the CB depth chart. Since he was still starting in the 4th preseason game, he was at the same spot on the depth chart. Two days later (with the only new information being the handful of snaps on film from the 4th game), he not only fell from the #2 spot, but he fell all the way to #5 and off the roster.

That is fine that you feel that way, but I just don't agree. Based on what the Pats already knew, Hobbs was holding down a starting spot and Wheatley was going to be a gameday active (he was drafted for a reason). Bryant needed to win the #2 spot to stay on the roster. At this point in his career, Bryant would unlikely be happy being a dime back and occasional gameday inactive and Belichick wouldn't put him in that position. That means that Bryant was fighting for one spot along with Hobbs and Wheatley. He was given the opportunity to win that spot from minicamps, OTAs, camp practices and preseason games. He didn't do it and was cut.

The same will hold true for O'Neal. He wasn't brought in to solidify the backend of the depth chart. He could be much better than Wilhite and still get cut. He has to show enough to get a reasonable number of snaps or he will be gone. Wilhite doesn't have to do the same to keep his roster spot.

 

[spacecrime]

- PS players can be signed by any other club, the difference between being on the PS and waivers is they can turn down offers or allow the Pats to counter the offer - waivers anyone can claim them and pay them league minimum

The big difference as far as I know is that if you sign a player from the practice squad, you must keep him on the 53-man roster for three games. You can claim a waiver wire player today and cut him tomorrow.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The big difference as far as I know is that if you sign a player from the practice squad, you must keep him on the 53-man roster for three games. You can claim a waiver wire player today and cut him tomorrow.

Sounds right.

 

[PatsFan37]

That is fine that you feel that way, but I just don't agree. Based on what the Pats already knew, Hobbs was holding down a starting spot and Wheatley was going to be a gameday active (he was drafted for a reason). Bryant needed to win the #2 spot to stay on the roster. At this point in his career, Bryant would unlikely be happy being a dime back and occasional gameday inactive and Belichick wouldn't put him in that position.

The same will hold true for O'Neal. He wasn't brought in to solidify the backend of the depth chart. He could be much better than Wilhite and still get cut. He has to show enough to get a reasonable number of snaps or he will be gone. Wilhite doesn't have to do the same to keep his roster spot.

First of all, we can certainly agree that we're beating this to death.

That said, I don't think Belichick cares what kind of position he puts Bryant in. If he's signed and practiced a guy for a couple months, he'll keep him if he needs him, the heck with how the player feels. I wouldn't feel bad for the guy, even at the vet min, it's not like he's making lunch money.

Bryant was cut because he had no place on the team. My sole issue in this overlong debate is that it took the FO too long to figure that out and that constitutes an error. It's not a big error, it won't be a footnote in their history, it is a minor minor point that they are trying to correct with Deltha O'Neal.

And that is the last you will hear from me about it.

 

[Mack Herron]

I do not think 4 preseason games is too long. I think one of the unusual strengths of this front office is their ability to quickly see and admit a mistake and move on. The antithesis of the Bobby Grier era when the high draft pick mistakes took the field every Sunday, year in and year out.

 

[Jimke]

First of all, we can certainly agree that we're beating this to death.

That said, I don't think Belichick cares what kind of position he puts Bryant in. If he's signed and practiced a guy for a couple months, he'll keep him if he needs him, the heck with how the player feels. I wouldn't feel bad for the guy, even at the vet min, it's not like he's making lunch money.

Bryant was cut because he had no place on the team. My sole issue in this overlong debate is that it took the FO too long to figure that out and that constitutes an error. It's not a big error, it won't be a footnote in their history, it is a minor minor point that they are trying to correct with Deltha O'Neal.

And that is the last you will hear from me about it.

Although Bryant supposedly looked good in practice, he was

lousy right at the start of the first preseason game when he

allowed three straight pass completions. Lewis Sanders replaced

him and the pass defense improved.