Breer: Time for Patriots to panic?

[SVN]

Not quite yet
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=449042

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I still don't get this "defense is old" thing. The only two starters who are "old" are Bruschi and Harrison. Others in their 30s are Vrable, Thomas and Bryant. The first two don't play old to my eyes; I haven't see enough of Bryant.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

Not quite yet
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=449042

This clinches it for me "Of course, you can't forget that this is the preseason, and Bill Belichick typically keeps his masterful plans tucked away until the real games begin. In recent years, a lack of preseason success hasn't hurt the team in the regular season. From 2004-07, the Patriots were 7-9 in exhibitions, yet went 52-12 in the regular season during that stretch, winning four AFC East titles, two conference championships and a Super Bowl."

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

This clinches it for me "Of course, you can't forget that this is the preseason, and Bill Belichick typically keeps his masterful plans tucked away until the real games begin. In recent years, a lack of preseason success hasn't hurt the team in the regular season. From 2004-07, the Patriots were 7-9 in exhibitions, yet went 52-12 in the regular season during that stretch, winning four AFC East titles, two conference championships and a Super Bowl."

The two people (on the field, not discounting Kraft or Pioli) that separate the Patriots are Brady and Belichick (probably in that order). Brady hasn't played. Belichick hasn't tried (to win games). So it's all irrelevant to me; although the long opening drives against our first team defense bug me "a little".

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

The two people (on the field, not discounting Kraft or Pioli) that separate the Patriots are Brady and Belichick (probably in that order). Brady hasn't played. Belichick hasn't tried (to win games). So it's all irrelevant to me; although the long opening drives against our first team defense bug me "a little".

yeah and the kickoff returns for 101 yards without stopping also concerns me but i am sure that the ST are working that out and are going to run a few laps over that debacle.....

 

[SVN]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I still don't get this "defense is old" thing. The only two starters who are "old" are Bruschi and Harrison. Others in their 30s are Vrable, Thomas and Bryant. The first two don't play old to my eyes; I haven't see enough of Bryant.

lynch too.
i dont think its the literal age in general but the playing speed of the defense. maybe its the style we play but if you look at say the pitt d and ours ..they are definitley faster.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

lynch too.

I don't think of Lynch as a starter.

i dont think its the literal age in general but the playing speed of the defense.

That could be but it makes no sense in the context of the quote. It said "they got old quickly" - if it's about our defense's playing speed, we never played fast. Law wasn't a fast CB. In the Belichick years McGinnest wasn't fast. Nor was TJ nor Phifer. It's an argument that doesn't work for me.

 

[SVN]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I don't think of Lynch as a starter.


That could be but it makes no sense in the context of the quote. It said "they got old quickly" - if it's about our defense's playing speed, we never played fast. Law wasn't a fast CB. In the Belichick years McGinnest wasn't fast. Nor was TJ nor Phifer. It's an argument that doesn't work for me.

i agree but even BB said after the draft that we have gotten younger and faster on defense which was the idea going into the draft.but how many older players did we lose last yr who were old...seau ? i guess down the line when merriweather ,mayo m,crable etc become full time players the defense will 'look' faster.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

When I really stop and focus on what is different about this D it's more a subtle change in philosophy away from putting opponents under pressure out of the gate and that mounting stress and frustration paying dividends as the game progress, We don't play agressive any more, we're not remotely exotic or terribly confusing, we don't disguise well.

Injuries to Seymour, Bruschi and Harrison seem to have resulted in a dumbing down of our D. I think that was the unfortunate but inevitable result of plugging key holes vacated due to injury whether with an aging FA veteran or a backup or a youngster. This team's defense has always evolved from the capacity of the core, and the core has aged and suffered injuries. Bill has tried to compensate by re-tooling on the fly, interspersing savvy veterans like Seau and AD with youngsters like Merriweather and Mayo. So far it hasn't been enough in part because the vets he added got injured too or struggled to grasp the system and the youngsters didn't emerge as quickly as they needed them to.

Maybe this year things will jell, but they may not and that will mean a defense that has to claw it's way through bending without breaking while relying on an offense that scores lots of points and puts opponents in a hole with limited options fom which to dig out. Seymour appears healthy for the first time in 3 seasons, but Rodney missed most of the presseason on PUP or limited as he came off it. Tank had a full offseason and was lost. merriweather was injured in week 2. Lynch has come in at the 11th hour. AD is apparently battling an injury. Hobson may have washed out and absent Seau Tedy is playing FT while mentoring Mayo. Hobbs is working his way back into game shape alongside a couple of competing FA and rookies, I'm not sure we're not again playing vanilla not by design (because it's preseason) so much as of necessity (because that's all we can muster with a fluid and blended transitional crew).

BB can compensate for lack of speed with scheme, but only if he has enough savvy and heady personnel at his disposal to execute that scheme.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

4-12, top five draft pick!

The SKY is falling, the SKY is falling!

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

When I really stop and focus on what is different about this D it's more a subtle change in philosophy away from putting opponents under pressure out of the gate and that mounting stress and frustration paying dividends as the game progress, We don't play agressive any more, we're not remotely exotic or terribly confusing, we don't disguise well.

I don't understand. Were we that aggressive last preseason? Was our D exotic and confusing and well-disguised last preseason?

It seems to me that we are playing exactly the same way we did last year at this time.

Weird and inappropriate defensive positioning for the situation seems to be the norm for BB in preseason. Maybe he thinks it gives him a better chance to judge how players do when they have to adjust on the fly, to better see how they will do during the regualr season when inevitably teams will disguise thier intent and catch the Pats out of position at times.

Surely BB doesn't intend to play the entire regular season with a vanilla defense, so what conclusions can be drawn from preseason?

BB can compensate for lack of speed with scheme, but only if he has enough savvy and heady personnel at his disposal to execute that scheme.

Will Seymour-Wilfork-Warren-Green-Thomas-Bruschi-Mayo-Vrabel-Harrison-Sanders-Meriweather-Lynch-Hobbs-Wheatley-Bryant be savvy and heady enough? How many teams in the NFL would you flat our exhange our entire defense for their entire defense? 20? 25? All 31?

 

[Raffy15]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

breeer has a lisp people! haas this kid ever played football?

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

Last pre-season Brady had thrown 48 passes through 3 games. 16 per game. That's the biggest difference between last preseason and this. Get Brady and Light back and things will look very different.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I don't understand. Were we that aggressive last preseason? Was our D exotic and confusing and well-disguised last preseason?

It seems to me that we are playing exactly the same way we did last year at this time.

Weird and inappropriate defensive positioning for the situation seems to be the norm for BB in preseason. Maybe he thinks it gives him a better chance to judge how players do when they have to adjust on the fly, to better see how they will do during the regualr season when inevitably teams will disguise thier intent and catch the Pats out of position at times.

Surely BB doesn't intend to play the entire regular season with a vanilla defense, so what conclusions can be drawn from preseason?


Will Seymour-Wilfork-Warren-Green-Thomas-Bruschi-Mayo-Vrabel-Harrison-Sanders-Meriweather-Lynch-Hobbs-Wheatley-Bryant be savvy and heady enough? How many teams in the NFL would you flat our exhange our entire defense for their entire defense? 20? 25? All 31?

I'm not talking about the change from last pre season to this, or even last season to this. I'm talking about the change from 2001,3,4 to 2005,6,7... We remained oddly vanilla comparatively speaking over much of the last 3 seasons due I believe to lack of healthy, sufficiently savvy talent to run the kind of chameleon defense that helped us win 3 Lombardi's...

 

[Brady to Brown]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

breeer has a lisp people! haas this kid ever played football?

I happen to like Breer, your post is in bad taste.

Anyone remember what our O-Line looked like last pre season?

Belichick will fix the many problems this team has shown over the past 3 weeks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I happen to like Breer, your post is in bad taste.

Anyone remember what our O-Line looked like last pre season?

Belichick will fix the many problems this team has shown over the past 3 weeks.

Most of Raffy's posts are like that. I think he's either 15 or that's where his maturity process topped out.

 

[PatsFan37]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I'm not talking about the change from last pre season to this, or even last season to this. I'm talking about the change from 2001,3,4 to 2005,6,7... We remained oddly vanilla comparatively speaking over much of the last 3 seasons due I believe to lack of healthy, sufficiently savvy talent to run the kind of chameleon defense that helped us win 3 Lombardi's...

This doesn't counter spacecrime's point. All you said was that they seem vanilla and that you believe that's because they lack the savvy talent to execute complex schemes. You didn't dispute that the players he named were sufficiently savvy to digest a complex playbook.

If you did dispute the players' savvy, you'd have to explain why you think Eugene Wilson, Tyrone Poole or Earthwind Moreland are savvier than Meriweather, Hobbs or Samuel. From interviews I've seen, Poole in particular never struck me as a rocket scientist.

Instead, you should consider whether Pees or Mangini are as savvy as Crennel, since Crennel is clearly the biggest difference in defensive scheme since the '04 season. And once that occurs to you, since coaches scheme and players play, the addition of Capers should give you reason to hope.

If it doesn't, then maybe you're looking for reasons to worry.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

4-12, top five draft pick!

The SKY is falling, the SKY is falling!

No! It's an ingenious plan! We get Laurentitis with that pick and have him and Mayo for years to come!

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

Breer talks about the third preseason game is where the Pats turn it on, but typically the Pats don't have an away game half way across the country on Sunday night for the second game and then have the third game Friday night against a team that had a over a week to prepare for them since they had a home game last Thursday. That is a huge piece of information that people choose to ignore. If you have seven days to prepare against a team that has four, you have a real advantage.

Reid installed a game plan (although not as complex at would be if it was a real game). Belichick really didn't and said as much the Monday before the game. Even a horrible team could crush a great team if they have some gameplanning the the great team didn't. The Eagles aren't a horrible team.

 

[belichickaholic]

Re: Breer :Time for Patriots to panic?

I'm not talking about the change from last pre season to this, or even last season to this. I'm talking about the change from 2001,3,4 to 2005,6,7... We remained oddly vanilla comparatively speaking over much of the last 3 seasons due I believe to lack of healthy, sufficiently savvy talent to run the kind of chameleon defense that helped us win 3 Lombardi's...

Or it could also be that dinosaurs don't blitz very well.