Mike Reiss: Notes from Practice

[DefenseRules]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/08/observations_fr_11.html

Observations from 20th practice
Posted by Mike Reiss, Globe Staff August 11, 2008 08:46 PM
FOXBOROUGH – Five observations from the Patriots’ 20th training camp practice, which was held in full pads tonight inside Gillette Stadium (6:30 p.m.):


1) Wet conditions challenge players with ball security. It started pouring about halfway through tonight’s session, which created an elements-type practice. Players’ concentration had to rise when taking care of the ball. Two center/quarterback exchanges were botched, with the combination of Dan Koppen/Matt Cassel and Dan Connolly/Kevin O’Connell taking the standard penalty lap. All three quarterbacks stayed after practice with centers to work on exchanges, as they were the last players off the field. Elsewhere in practice, return man Matthew Slater fumbled a kickoff, while tight end Benjamin Watson had a drop across the middle in 7-on-7 work. On the flip side, safety Brandon Meriweather made a nice interception in 11-on-11 work – and later had a second pick in 11-on-11 drills – an indication that his work to improve his hands is paying off.


2) Mike Vrabel and Ellis Hobbs join the first string. Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel and cornerback Ellis Hobbs seemed to have their workload increase. Both took their place with the first-unit defense, with Vrabel knocking out Pierre Woods at left outside linebacker and Hobbs lining up at right cornerback, with Fernando Bryant at left cornerback. That meant rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley was now with the second unit. Vrabel showed up by tipping a Tom Brady pass in half-speed work at the 2-yard line (the tip was intercepted by Titus Adams) and Hobbs had a nice breakup on a long pass over the middle, as quarterback Matt Cassel was attempting to hook up with speedy receiver Matthew Slater.


3) John Welbourn locks in at right tackle. The Patriots continue to battle with a numbers shortage on the offensive line – Russ Hochstein is the latest player knocked out (he suffered an undisclosed injury in Thursday’s preseason opener) – although tonight marked veteran John Welbourn’s most extensive work since joining the team seven days ago. Welbourn worked exclusively at right tackle with the second unit. While Welbourn also has experience at guard, it looks like the Patriots will look to him initially at the tackle spot.


4) Victor Hobson yet to emerge at inside linebacker. A considerable chunk of time was spent watching Victor Hobson in his transition from outside linebacker in the Jets’ 3-4 defense to inside linebacker in the Patriots’ 3-4 alignment. It doesn’t seem to be coming easily to him. At 6-foot-0, 252 pounds, Hobson was engulfed at times by linemen and tight ends in 11-on-11 work, pushed away from the play. In the spring, it appeared that Hobson was a good bet to help the Patriots this year, but he’s yet to break through in training camp (most recently working next to Bo Ruud & Eric Alexander), and could be in jeopardy of not making the club if a player like Gary Guyton (rookie free agent) continues to excel on special teams.


5) Jabar Gaffney over Chad Jackson. In 11-on-11 work, the top receiving trio for quarterback Tom Brady was Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Jabar Gaffney. Chad Jackson, who struggled at times in the preseason opener, did not got any work with Brady when the team had three receivers on the field in the drill. Jackson came on with backup quarterback Matt Cassel.

EXTRA POINTS: In the corner of the end zone on the south side of the field, offensive linemen worked against defensive linemen/outside linebackers in a 2-on-2 drill where the blockers had to work together and pass off their man if necessary. At one point, left tackle Wesley Britt and left guard Logan Mankins held their ground against the difficult tandem of Adalius Thomas and Richard Seymour. … The second-unit offensive line was comprised of Barry Stokes (left tackle), Ryan Wendell (left guard), Dan Connolly (center), Jimmy Martin (right guard) and John Welbourn (right tackle). … Rookie quarterback Kevin O’Connell, getting some extended work with Matt Gutierrez not present at practice, was intercepted by Brandon Meriweather in 7-on-7 work on an underthrown ball intended for tight end Jonathan Stupar. He was almost intercepted a second time in 11-on-11 work by newly signed cornerback Jeff Shoate on another underthrown ball. ... Tom Brady seemed to keep the mood light, at one time joking as if he was coming off the sideline to trip kickoff returner Ellis Hobbs, and later taunting defensive lineman Titus Adams as he was walking into the end zone on work near the goal-line. But in a twist of fate, Adams intercepted Brady’s next pass when it was tipped by Mike Vrabel. ... The session ended with the team huddled around head coach Bill Belichick for what seemed like a longer meeting than normal.

Tuesday schedule: The Patriots have a single practice, scheduled for 2:30 p.m. The session is open to the public.

I guess those of you who thought that Hobson wasn't doing well are correct.
Hopefully by the end of preseason, he starts to "Get it".

Good to see Hobbs and Vrabel back in the lineup. Note the top three WRs working with Brady: Moss, Welker, Gaffney...no Jackson...interesting.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Vrabel showed up by tipping a Tom Brady pass in half-speed work at the 2-yard line (the tip was intercepted by Titus Adams) and Hobbs had a nice breakup on a long pass over the middle, as quarterback Matt Cassel was attempting to hook up with speedy receiver Matthew Slater.

Look people we all know that Brady is a great film student but who on the Patriots will show some sack and freakin delete all those Cassel game films that Brady's been watching?

4) Victor Hobson yet to emerge at inside linebacker. A considerable chunk of time was spent watching Victor Hobson in his transition from outside linebacker in the Jets’ 3-4 defense to inside linebacker in the Patriots’ 3-4 alignment. It doesn’t seem to be coming easily to him. At 6-foot-0, 252 pounds, Hobson was engulfed at times by linemen and tight ends in 11-on-11 work, pushed away from the play. In the spring, it appeared that Hobson was a good bet to help the Patriots this year, but he’s yet to break through in training camp (most recently working next to Bo Ruud & Eric Alexander), and could be in jeopardy of not making the club if a player like Gary Guyton (rookie free agent) continues to excel on special teams.

Bummer. I liked the signing but upon reflection if young talent beats a vet signed to a 1 year contract, what's not to like?


5) Jabar Gaffney over Chad Jackson. In 11-on-11 work, the top receiving trio for quarterback Tom Brady was Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Jabar Gaffney. Chad Jackson, who struggled at times in the preseason opener, did not got any work with Brady when the team had three receivers on the field in the drill. Jackson came on with backup quarterback Matt Cassel.

Insert 400 posts of rationalizations from the well staffed Chad Jackson Patsfans fanboy club. Reiss will soon join Thomase in the hatemail club.

 

[Rob0729]

Vrabel showed up by tipping a Tom Brady pass in half-speed work at the 2-yard line (the tip was intercepted by Titus Adams) and Hobbs had a nice breakup on a long pass over the middle, as quarterback Matt Cassel was attempting to hook up with speedy receiver Matthew Slater.

Look people we all know that Brady is a great film student but who on the Patriots will show some sack and freakin delete all those Cassel game films that Brady's been watching?

4) Victor Hobson yet to emerge at inside linebacker. A considerable chunk of time was spent watching Victor Hobson in his transition from outside linebacker in the Jets’ 3-4 defense to inside linebacker in the Patriots’ 3-4 alignment. It doesn’t seem to be coming easily to him. At 6-foot-0, 252 pounds, Hobson was engulfed at times by linemen and tight ends in 11-on-11 work, pushed away from the play. In the spring, it appeared that Hobson was a good bet to help the Patriots this year, but he’s yet to break through in training camp (most recently working next to Bo Ruud & Eric Alexander), and could be in jeopardy of not making the club if a player like Gary Guyton (rookie free agent) continues to excel on special teams.

Bummer. I liked the signing but upon reflection if young talent beats a vet signed to a 1 year contract, what's not to like?


5) Jabar Gaffney over Chad Jackson. In 11-on-11 work, the top receiving trio for quarterback Tom Brady was Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Jabar Gaffney. Chad Jackson, who struggled at times in the preseason opener, did not got any work with Brady when the team had three receivers on the field in the drill. Jackson came on with backup quarterback Matt Cassel.

Insert 400 posts of rationalizations from the well staffed Chad Jackson Patsfans fanboy club. Reiss will soon join Thomase in the hatemail club.

Jeez, are you going to take swipes at Jackson at every turn? Color me shocked that the guy who is competiting for the fourth WR spot at the moment wouldn't be part of the top 3 WRs who played with the first team in a three WR set.

Why would "Jackson Patsfans fanboy club" be mad at Reiss. What did Reiss say negative about Jackson? That he struggled at times in the preseason opener?

I'm sorry, but I really think the Jackson bashers are far worse than the Jackson fanboys. I think the irrational hate is stronger than the irrational love for the guy.

 

[Rob0729]

I gotta say I am disapointed in Hobson. I thought the guy had a real chance to be a sleeper pick up. If he doesn't get it in gear soon, he won't even make the final 53 man roster.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Jeez, are you going to take swipes at Jackson at every turn? Color me shocked that the guy who is competiting for the fourth WR spot at the moment wouldn't be part of the top 3 WRs who played with the first team in a three WR set.

Why would "Jackson Patsfans fanboy club" be mad at Reiss. What did Reiss say negative about Jackson? That he struggled at times in the preseason opener?

I'm sorry, but I really think the Jackson bashers are far worse than the Jackson fanboys. I think the irrational hate is stronger than the irrational love for the guy.

Look in a mirror.

I will wager ANY amount that you personally have posted far more than 2x the amount of posts on this topic than I have.

Think before you post.

And look up satire while you're at it.

 

[Metaphors]

Insert 400 posts of rationalizations from the well staffed Chad Jackson Patsfans fanboy club. Reiss will soon join Thomase in the hatemail club.

Nope. CJack had to be expected to challenge for first team snaps at the flanker spot vacated when Stallworth left town. He obviously hasn't accomplished that so far. That is a failure on his part and there is really no way to sugarcoat that.

That doesn't mean he will be cut or is incapable of contributing to the team's success. The fact that he is practicing without catching any passes from Brady will almost certainly limit the impact he will have in 2008. His story is far from complete but this chapter is a downer.

 

[Rob0729]

Look in a mirror.

I will wager ANY amount that you personally have posted far more than 2x the amount of posts on this topic than I have.

Think before you post.

And look up satire while you're at it.

Except I don't have strong feeling about the guy either way. I just think it is stupid for all this hate until the guy has the season to prove himself a bust. I don't believe he will ever be a stud WR, but I don't think one blown play where he may or may not have run the wrong route as proof he is a bust.

I didn't see anything in Reiss' post tonight that said he was a bust either. Even most of the strongest Jackson supporters would say he would be fourth at best on the depth chart right now. That means that if Moss, Welker, and Gaffney are practicing, Jackson has no shot to practice with the first team.

I am trying to bring rationality to the lunacy that is the topic of Chad Jackson. You and other Jackson haters want to blow every little piece of information into some grandeose statement that Jackson is a bust.

 

[emoney_33]

Insert 400 posts of rationalizations from the well staffed Chad Jackson Patsfans fanboy club. Reiss will soon join Thomase in the hatemail club. [/b]

Is there anyone that would actually be suprised that Gaffney is ahead of Chad Jackson at this point in time? I mean, I'm among the many that believe Jackson's needs more time, but I don't think this is a suprise or even interesting. It would be an extreme suprise and shock if it were the other way around.

 

[ALP]

hmmm...

chad jackson will be with the team this year, anyone who reads this can bank on it...

if BB was even considering cutting chad jackson, he would begin to practice him with tom brady, him not doing so tells a lot...

 

[Metaphors]

Is there anyone that would actually be suprised that Gaffney is ahead of Chad Jackson at this point in time? I mean, I'm among the many that believe Jackson's needs more time, but I don't think this is a suprise or even interesting. It would be an extreme suprise and shock if it were the other way around.

It isn't surprise or shock, but CJack is the optimal solution outside for the Pats. Gaffney is better suited inside in the 4 WR set and providing situational flexibility all across the LOS. The fact that CJack hasn't taken hold of this opportunity is a disappointment because the Pats would be in a better position to win if he did.

The fact that Gaffney is getting time outside doesn't bother me at all. The fact that the Pats just completed a practice and CJack didn't take the field with Brady does bother me. Check my posts and you'll see that I've been on CJack's side just like I would with any player taking unfair abuse. He needs to get on the field with Brady and if Brady/Belichick is reluctant to do that, he needs to force his way onto the field.

I'm still hopeful that he will put it together and make a difference in championship #4 in February. He still has an amazing opportunity in front of him. Let's see if he can start putting together practice and game efforts to turn the opportunity into production.

 

[Rob0729]

It isn't surprise or shock, but CJack is the optimal solution outside for the Pats. Gaffney is better suited inside in the 4 WR set and providing situational flexibility all across the LOS. The fact that CJack hasn't taken hold of this opportunity is a disappointment because the Pats would be in a better position to win if he did.

The fact that Gaffney is getting time outside doesn't bother me at all. The fact that the Pats just completed a practice and CJack didn't take the field with Brady does bother me. Check my posts and you'll see that I've been on CJack's side just like I would with any player taking unfair abuse. He needs to get on the field with Brady and if Brady/Belichick is reluctant to do that, he needs to force his way onto the field.

I'm still hopeful that he will put it together and make a difference in championship #4 in February. He still has an amazing opportunity in front of him. Let's see if he can start putting together practice and game efforts to turn the opportunity into production.

One practice with the back ups doesn't mean he won't get reps in the future with Brady. Also, don't forget that Reiss said it started to pour in the middle of practice. That could have mean that Brady's participation in practice could have been shortened. Or just maybe Belichick punished players today who played poorly in the game Thursday.

You can't look at one practice and read too much into it. If Jackson isn't getting reps with Brady into next week, maybe you have a point.

 

[emoney_33]

It isn't surprise or shock, but CJack is the optimal solution outside for the Pats. Gaffney is better suited inside in the 4 WR set and providing situational flexibility all across the LOS. The fact that CJack hasn't taken hold of this opportunity is a disappointment because the Pats would be in a better position to win if he did.

The fact that Gaffney is getting time outside doesn't bother me at all. The fact that the Pats just completed a practice and CJack didn't take the field with Brady does bother me. Check my posts and you'll see that I've been on CJack's side just like I would with any player taking unfair abuse. He needs to get on the field with Brady and if Brady/Belichick is reluctant to do that, he needs to force his way onto the field.

I'm still hopeful that he will put it together and make a difference in championship #4 in February. He still has an amazing opportunity in front of him. Let's see if he can start putting together practice and game efforts to turn the opportunity into production.

Yea, don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled that Chad Jackson has not won over a spot with all that 'potential'. There's no way he gets cut this year, so he'll have at least all year (barring injury) to work his way onto the field.

I'm just not expecting it at this point, because he hasn't shown any reason to expect it yet. I am disappointed in Chad Jackson though not to the extent of some people who seem to think it's a foregone conclusion that he will never accomplish anything in the NFL. Guess we are on the same page

 

[Deus Irae]

As I've said before, I don't expect Jackson to beat out Gaffney to start the season, and I think the key for him is to get the 'rest' reps at first and then work his way into the lineup. Not running with the first unit should come as no surprise.

 

[Patjew]

if BB was even considering cutting chad jackson, he would begin to practice him with tom brady, him not doing so tells a lot...

I don't follow that logic.

 

[Metaphors]

I am disappointed in Chad Jackson though not to the extent of some people who seem to think it's a foregone conclusion that he will never accomplish anything in the NFL. Guess we are on the same page

Yep. I'm just glad we got this in before the inevitable hijacking of this thread.

As for Hobson, would really like to see him get comfortable and become a regular part of the rotation. Mayo should be fine but I think Bruschi's snaps need to be limited so he can be effective in situational play. I don't trust Alexander in anything but spot duty. Guyton has great skills but is raw. Ruud seems to have good instincts but is likely limited to ST at this point.

A confident and productive Hobson would go a long way to solidifying the middle of the defense. The talent level of the defense seems much improved this year, but I would like a steady veteran presence along with Bruschi for the big games on the schedule.

 

[Rob0729]

Yep. I'm just glad we got this in before the inevitable hijacking of this thread.

As for Hobson, would really like to see him get comfortable and become a regular part of the rotation. Mayo should be fine but I think Bruschi's snaps need to be limited so he can be effective in situational play. I don't trust Alexander in anything but spot duty. Guyton has great skills but is raw. Ruud seems to have good instincts but is likely limited to ST at this point.

A confident and productive Hobson would go a long way to solidifying the middle of the defense. The talent level of the defense seems much improved this year, but I would like a steady veteran presence along with Bruschi for the big games on the schedule.

I am not ready to give up on Hobson either, but I am disapointed how long it is taking him to get up to speed with the defense. You would think he would be farther along by now especially since a rookie seems to have grasped the defense far easier than Hobson. It is a tough defense to learn and sometimes it takes longer for some guys to pick it up. Maybe Mangini screwed him up more than we thought.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I gotta say I am disapointed in Hobson. I thought the guy had a real chance to be a sleeper pick up. If he doesn't get it in gear soon, he won't even make the final 53 man roster.

In a twisted sort of way this is a good thing if it happens. It would mean Mayo and all the other young rookies that have been drafted or signed are doing a bang-up job. No?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am not ready to give up on Hobson either, but I am disapointed how long it is taking him to get up to speed with the defense. You would think he would be farther along by now especially since a rookie seems to have grasped the defense far easier than Hobson. It is a tough defense to learn and sometimes it takes longer for some guys to pick it up. Maybe Mangini screwed him up more than we thought.

I'm not sure the rookie has a firm grasp of the defense yet, what he has is speed to recover and the fact he played ILB last year in the SEC. Hobson has been an OLB for his five years with the Jesters - whether he can make the transition I can't say, but he hasn't been cut yet even if he is taking second & third string reps.

Wow! "Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel and cornerback Ellis Hobbs seemed to have their workload increase. Both took their place with the first-unit defense, with Vrabel knocking out Pierre Woods at left outside linebacker and Hobbs lining up at right cornerback, with Fernando Bryant at left cornerback. That meant rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley was now with the second unit." Hobbs and Bryant the first string! Who could have predicted such a thing after Thursday's slaughter?

"Tom Brady seemed to keep the mood light, at one time joking as if he was coming off the sideline to trip kickoff returner Ellis Hobbs, and later taunting defensive lineman Titus Adams as he was walking into the end zone on work near the goal-line. But in a twist of fate, Adams intercepted Brady’s next pass when it was tipped by Mike Vrabel." My favorite line from the story.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Hobson wasn't even good enough for the Jets to retain him,What makes you guys think a new team and an improved coach can help him become more than just a JAG?

You can teach him all the fundamentals you can of being a good player but you can't teach talent - Obviously talent is nowhere to be found thus far in the early going.

Another Monty Beisel in the mix at LB - Lord I hope not

 

[spacecrime]

Insert 400 posts of rationalizations from the well staffed Chad Jackson Patsfans fanboy club. Reiss will soon join Thomase in the hatemail club.

How many times you have to reguritate you pathological hate of Jackson? Do you think there is still one person on Patsfans who hasn't read your hate posts for the last two years over and over ad nauseum? Hamstring in year one. Bust. ACL in year two. Bust. Repeat daily.

Over the last two years you have ten times the mindless CJ IS A BUST posts as anyone who ever said that Jackson's two injury years did not prove anything.

Jackson is healthy this year. This is his year to prove himself or not prove himself. As of the first preseason game, he is tending toward not, but whether he does or does not, calling him a bust based on not getting on the field for two years is plain ignorant.

If he doesn't make the team, I will say he didn't work out. If he does make the team, I'm sure you'll continue to spew.

Good grief!