Reiss on Shawn Crable

[DefenseRules]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

Shawn Crable follow-up
Posted by Mike Reiss, Globe Staff
August 7, 2008 02:10 PM

On the second day of training camp, Bill Belichick talked about how the Patriots, like other teams, had placed a higher value on certain parts of their draft board than in past years.

Players like a third cornerback, third receiver, third-down running back, and second- and third-down rusher were closer to starter-like status based on their growing importance in today's game.

At that time, I wrote that the second- and third-down pass rusher was a point of particular interest and that rookie linebacker Shawn Crable, one of the team's third-round picks, was a player who seemed targeted for that role.

Following up on that thought through 18 training camp practices, Crable has created some havoc as a rusher. Initially, he probably does project mostly in a second- and third-down rushing role.

But after watching him to this point, he should not be overlooked as a possibility to emerge as a full-time outside linebacker in the 3-4 alignment at some point. While his legs might not look the part -- and might make one question if he can set the edge in the running game against bigger tight ends and tackles -- he has other attributes (e.g. long arms) that help him in that challenging aspect of playing the position.

Crable said that element of containment has been one of his biggest adjustments coming from Michigan.

"You're the end of the defense, so you have to set the edge and can't let plays get outside," he said. "In that terms, it's a lot different because the guys here are a lot stronger than they were in college."

Do you guys agree with Reiss? I haven't seen Crable at ll yet, but for those who have been to camp, what are your thoughts?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'd observed in my TC thread that The Crab put serious pressure on the QB and was taller than the others. But before Reiss has him geting serious PT, the kid has got to become at least serviceable seting the edge in case the team does run on a passing down. Analysis is not Reiss' strong suit. The Dookfish (who's away in commie country now becomming The Manchurian Candidate) pretty much dissed Crabs ability in this regard. Camp still has weeks to go. Watch The Crab in action tonight.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'd observed in my TC thread that The Crab put serious pressure on the QB and was taller than the others. But before Reiss has him geting serious PT, the kid has got to become at least serviceable seting the edge in case the team does run on a passing down. Analysis is not Reiss' strong suit. The Dookfish (who's away in commie country now becomming The Manchurian Candidate) pretty much dissed Crabs ability in this regard. Camp still has weeks to go. Watch The Crab in action tonight.

Indeed. He'll be one of the players I'll be watching closely tonight, only because I've heard mixed opinions about him.

 

[DefenseRules]

Indeed. He'll be one of the players I'll be watching closely tonight, only because I've heard mixed opinions about him.

He' s a Rooky. I expect gradual improvment in time.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Having read various camp reports and from what I recall leading up to the draft: people expecting significant impact from Crable this season are going to be labeling him a bust. The kid has some natural speed and talent as an edge rusher, but his strength and technique to play a Belichick 3-4 OLB is sadly lacking - he needs a year with Woicik, Nash, and Davis. Second, he needs time to digest the defense and go from thinking about what to do when he sees a situation, to reacting. I expect him to make the roster and show improvement over the course of the season, but people need to set their expectations low and give this kid a couple years to develop.

The same applies to Vince Redd.

Mayo looks like he'll be starting inside with Bru, but I expect him to get burned quite often during the first half of the season. Some of us have read how Patrick Willis' tackle numbers were inflated, let's not use 49er bologna numbers to set our expectations for Mayo (or Crable) - even if some of the media do.

 

[BradyManny]

I'd observed in my TC thread that The Crab put serious pressure on the QB and was taller than the others. But before Reiss has him geting serious PT, the kid has got to become at least serviceable seting the edge in case the team does run on a passing down. Analysis is not Reiss' strong suit. The Dookfish (who's away in commie country now becomming The Manchurian Candidate) pretty much dissed Crabs ability in this regard. Camp still has weeks to go. Watch The Crab in action tonight.

While I - like everyone else - appreciated Dookfish's insights, we don't know what his analytical credentials are either. I, personally, will side with Reiss for now.

A lot has been said about Crable and the assumption that he can't set the edge or defend against the run - and I think that assumption is based mostly on his appearance, ie, his legs. He had 28.5 stops for losses last season at Michigan, second in the nation, so it wasn't an issue for him in college - now its just a matter of translating it to the pro's.

 

[cstjohn17]

I agree, he will grow into the role. Right now OLB is very thin, if anything happens to Thomas or Vrabel then Crable is the next man up. As Reiss noted Crable is adjusting to 'setting the edge'. But if used appropriately he could come in on some 3rd downs or to spell Vrabel / Thomas. I expect will see a lot of 3rd down defense with Vrabel & Crable outside with Thomas and Mayo inside.

Another good point is the length of Crable, BB likes his edge rushers tall so then can bat down passes.

I don't expect him to be a star in year 1 but IMO he is already a better LB than Woods and should be able to grow into a starting role.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

While I - like everyone else - appreciated Dookfish's insights, we don't know what his analytical credentials are either. I, personally, will side with Reiss for now.

A lot has been said about Crable and the assumption that he can't set the edge or defend against the run - and I think that assumption is based mostly on his appearance, ie, his legs. He had 28.5 stops for losses last season at Michigan, second in the nation, so it wasn't an issue for him in college - now its just a matter of translating it to the pro's.

28.5 stops for a loss indicate "penetration." He's now being asked to play a two-gap, line control style of ball. I don't care if he has chicken legs or tree trunks, he needs to have the strength and the technique to stand-up OL/TE/FBs blocking on the edge of the formation and turn running plays inside to his helpers. Not going to happen much this year.

 

[cstjohn17]

While I - like everyone else - appreciated Dookfish's insights, we don't know what his analytical credentials are either. I, personally, will side with Reiss for now.

A lot has been said about Crable and the assumption that he can't set the edge or defend against the run - and I think that assumption is based mostly on his appearance, ie, his legs. He had 28.5 stops for losses last season at Michigan, second in the nation, so it wasn't an issue for him in college - now its just a matter of translating it to the pro's.

I expect him to have difficulty setting the edge, we are spoiled because Vrabel is so good and before him Willie McG. Colvin improved over time but was still spotty and even a beast like Thomas had his ups and downs. It is natural that a player who is not physically mature will have some difficulty containing some of the strongest humans in the world.

Unless there are injuries I don't expect to see a lot of Crable against the run.

 

[BradyManny]

28.5 stops for a loss indicate "penetration." He's now being asked to play a two-gap, line control style of ball. I don't care if he has chicken legs or tree trunks, he needs to have the strength and the technique to stand-up OL/TE/FBs blocking on the edge of the formation and turn running plays inside to his helpers. Not going to happen much this year.

I don't disagree. I was merely trying to dismiss the notion that Crable was only a pass rushing threat at Michigan or even struggled against the run - neither of which is true. I admit he's being asked to do something a lot different now.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I don't disagree. I was merely trying to dismiss the notion that Crable was only a pass rushing threat at Michigan or even struggled against the run - neither of which is true. I admit he's being asked to do something a lot different now.

Good to know; I like the kid's potential (his and Redd's) and if he gets his mind right and hits that weightroom like a $5 buffet he could be dangerous in a couple years.

 

[Water Boy]

I agree, he will grow into the role. Right now OLB is very thin, if anything happens to Thomas or Vrabel then Crable is the next man up.

Isn't Woods the next man up?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Isn't Woods the next man up?

You've put a finger on my concern for the OLB position this season. I just hope Woods is a better gamer than the Practice Reports suggest.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

While I - like everyone else - appreciated Dookfish's insights, we don't know what his analytical credentials are either. I, personally, will side with Reiss for now.

A lot has been said about Crable and the assumption that he can't set the edge or defend against the run - and I think that assumption is based mostly on his appearance, ie, his legs. He had 28.5 stops for losses last season at Michigan, second in the nation, so it wasn't an issue for him in college - now its just a matter of translating it to the pro's.

Uh, Reiss and the DF said the same thing about seting the edge. Reiss then went all irrational predicting a major role for the 5th round pick.

 

[Urgent]

I agree, he will grow into the role. Right now OLB is very thin, if anything happens to Thomas or Vrabel then Crable is the next man up. As Reiss noted Crable is adjusting to 'setting the edge'. But if used appropriately he could come in on some 3rd downs or to spell Vrabel / Thomas. I expect will see a lot of 3rd down defense with Vrabel & Crable outside with Thomas and Mayo inside.

I don't expect him to be a star in year 1 but IMO he is already a better LB than Woods and should be able to grow into a starting role.

Well, Woods is clearly ahead of Crable right now.
Woods has concistently been playing with the One's throughout camp, in Vrabel's absense.
And most of the reports were fairly positive on Woods.

Further, while Redd has out injured for half a dozen or more practices, as soon as he came back he took over the defensive right side, according to the PFW writers. Redd took over the pass-rush OLB position, and Crable moved over to the strong side.

This doesn't indicate where Crable might be at the end of the season, but for now he is behind Woods, and possibly behind Redd.

 

[cstjohn17]

Well, Woods is clearly ahead of Crable right now.
Woods has concistently been playing with the One's throughout camp, in Vrabel's absense.
And most of the reports were fairly positive on Woods.

Further, while Redd has out injured for half a dozen or more practices, as soon as he came back he took over the defensive right side, according to the PFW writers. Redd took over the pass-rush OLB position, and Crable moved over to the strong side.

This doesn't indicate where Crable might be at the end of the season, but for now he is behind Woods, and possibly behind Redd.

That may be true on August 7, but IMO by mid September Crable will be ahead of Woods. Woods is a good special teamer but as a LB has a pretty low ceiling. As for Redd, I think he a cult following because he is tall, but he is a longshot to make the roster.

 

[makoute]

Jason Taylor is not that big of a person, hasn't stopped him one bit (not that I'm saying Crable is Taylor)

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Jason Taylor is not that big of a person, hasn't stopped him one bit (not that I'm saying Crable is Taylor)

And I'm just a bit bigger than Welker! (I'm not saying I have better hands than Welker)

 

[D-cleater]

Reiss is correct, you all are wrong. Pats will play more of an attack style D this year, especially on third down. Crable will get playing time in this defense by end of year. The kid can rush and drop back, he was already in the right spot for an INT all ready. He won't be asked to set the edge that much.

 

[jefmblrd]

He showed last night that he has some game with tackles and an interception. I'm hoping he'll keep it up throughout the preseason, keep getting better, and make a contribution.