Gaffney vs. Jackson?

[JSn]

Anyone think that somehow Gaffney could be the #3 receiver in the offensive battery acid NE pours on the AFC defenses this year?

I know he's not a blazing speed guy, but I just get the feeling he and Brady are building a Brady and Welker-esque connection.

Imagine Moss flying deep and Gaff and Wes punching holes all over near and mid field. It "feels" like you add a number four and the opposing defense is gonna have to be almost magical to keep tabs on everyone.

Or maybe I need more sleep.

Also, be gentle. All things being equal I'm only a recent convert to Football fanboyism (about 2 years).

 

[PonyExpress]

Jackson is #4 trying to find his way onto the field. Gaffney is a proven playmaker in this offense and has a growing rapport with Tom, tested in big games.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I'd take Gaffney 10 times out of ten here. I agree When you say Brady and Gaffney are continuing to build their chemistry. I have a feeling Tom has a lot of confidence in Gaffney and I expect him to catch more balls this year (providing he is open...)

Of course all of this is a moot point if we can protect the passer....

Anyone think that somehow Gaffney could be the #3 receiver in the offensive battery acid NE pours on the AFC defenses this year?

I know he's not a blazing speed guy, but I just get the feeling he and Brady are building a Brady and Welker-esque connection.

Imagine Moss flying deep and Gaff and Wes punching holes all over near and mid field. It "feels" like you add a number four and the opposing defense is gonna have to be almost magical to keep tabs on everyone.

Or maybe I need more sleep.

Also, be gentle. All things being equal I'm only a recent convert to Football fanboyism (about 2 years).

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Tom IS comfortable with the Gaffer, but Training Camp is where you meet new friends (WRs) and build on it. Folks are WAY too early prognosticating who vs who, unless one player is a DUD, which is not the case here. Injuries happen. Let's see.

 

[BradyManny]

Gaffney has shown over the last season and a half that he's a fine #3. Jackson has higher upside though. If Jackson does not produce enough to take reps from Gaffney, then we're still in fine shape. Jackson turning into a stud is a bonus.

 

[signbabybrady]

Imagine Moss flying deep and Gaff and Wes punching holes all over near and mid field. It "feels" like you add a number four and the opposing defense is gonna have to be almost magical to keep tabs on everyone.

This is not a new phenomenom. We had the four guys last year in Moss Welker Gafney and Stalworth.

Just to elaborate further on the fits this O can cause opposing Ds.

Think about a simple single back formation. 3 WR (Moss, Welker, and Gaffney) 1 TE (Watson), and one RB (Faulk). Think about that, that is 5 really good options for Tom and a defense must crap their pants when that comes out of the huddle.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

This is not a new phenomenom. We had the four guys last year in Moss Welker Gafney and Stalworth.

Just to elaborate further on the fits this O can cause opposing Ds.

Think about a simple single back formation. 3 WR (Moss, Welker, and Gaffney) 1 TE (Watson), and one RB (Faulk). Think about that, that is 5 really good options for Tom and a defense must crap their pants when that comes out of the huddle.

Depends on who's BLOCKING for Tommy Boy.

 

[Metaphors]

Had similar discussions in another thread.

My take is that while Gaffney and Jackson are competing for snaps, I don't believe it is a true competition for the same position. Gaffney has the flexibility to play all along the line, but isn't a natural fit at flanker opposite Moss. If we see Gaffney getting the majority of the snaps outside opposite Moss, it likely means CJack failed to grab the opportunity and that Gaffney is plan B.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I agree, insane...although we had the same weapons last year.

If we can protect Brady this year we should be especially feared, even if the secondary is the same. With last year's secondary we need QB protection so we can at least put up some points....in KEY games...

This is not a new phenomenom. We had the four guys last year in Moss Welker Gafney and Stalworth.

Just to elaborate further on the fits this O can cause opposing Ds.

Think about a simple single back formation. 3 WR (Moss, Welker, and Gaffney) 1 TE (Watson), and one RB (Faulk). Think about that, that is 5 really good options for Tom and a defense must crap their pants when that comes out of the huddle.

 

[JSn]

This is not a new phenomenom. We had the four guys last year in Moss Welker Gafney and Stalworth.

Just to elaborate further on the fits this O can cause opposing Ds.

Think about a simple single back formation. 3 WR (Moss, Welker, and Gaffney) 1 TE (Watson), and one RB (Faulk). Think about that, that is 5 really good options for Tom and a defense must crap their pants when that comes out of the huddle.

haha

Yeah. I have a lot of hope for Watson to rock the shiz this year. Only trouble with that set up is the odds that Brady hands off to Faulk are small. I wonder if Maroney is headed to a similar role a few years down the line, but with more run threat?

 

[BradyToMoss]

Nothing wrong with going 4-wide

CJack and Randy with the deep stuff and Gaff and Wes eating up secondaries inside the slot and intermediate areas.

A full camp and rapport for Chad Jackson in this offense with Tom I have a feeling is going to reap some big time production.

 

[JSn]

I suppose Jackson can fill the Stallworth role, though. If he can run fast and catch a ball (consistently) he can be a deep threat ala Ocho Cinqo (all yards, no TD's, lol) and that pulls away a corner. If they don't cover him, even if he can't make the coverage catches Moss does (in his sleep) it's gotta get spooky for D's to decide if the risk of a long bomb in single coverage to the kid is worth blitzing the corner.

Missile to Gaffney last year was a wake-up call (to go along with a year's worth of them) that any active receiver is a weapon on this offense.

 

[signbabybrady]

haha

Yeah. I have a lot of hope for Watson to rock the shiz this year. Only trouble with that set up is the odds that Brady hands off to Faulk are small. I wonder if Maroney is headed to a similar role a few years down the line, but with more run threat?

He is really good Draw back and keeps defenses honest with his abilities there.

If we can protect Brady this year we should be especially feared, even if the secondary is the same. With last year's secondary we need QB protection so we can at least put up some points....in KEY games...

See but that is the great thing about this particular formation and talent that I put in it. Faulk is a great pass blocker for a back and by default I guess Watson is the best blocking TE. And because they are such good pass threats you have to watch out for them and they may stay in for protection giving you added protection and a diversion to go out on a route helping to keep the coverage from Moss and the like.

 

[JSn]

Yeah. This makes me happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpRjemQ_50

 

[Metaphors]

Think about a simple single back formation. 3 WR (Moss, Welker, and Gaffney) 1 TE (Watson), and one RB (Faulk). Think about that, that is 5 really good options for Tom and a defense must crap their pants when that comes out of the huddle.

Except that Gaffney doesn't provide much of a downfield threat. He does a lot of the same things that makes Welker so valuable. Without a deep threat opposite Moss (what Stallworth was intended to provide), you see defenses leave a corner on an island and shade the rest of the defense to pinch Welker, zone cover Watson or even middle blitz Brady.

The key to the defensive numbers is the opposing safeties:

4 for pass rush
2 for Moss (best CB plus best cover safety)
2 for Welker (slot DB plus LB working the middle shading him)
1 for Watson (probably a LB)
1 for WR opposite Moss (#2 CB)

That leaves the other safety. If that safety is free to step up, it gives the D lots of options. If that safety has to stay back to protect against Watson (deep middle against a LB) and the WR opposite Moss (fly pattern against #2 CB), the numbers don't look good for the defense.

Also, notice I didn't mention any coverage for the RB. That is because there is none. When Maroney got a delayed screen pass in 2007, he generally has acres of green in front of him before he hit the first defender. Again, the more you can keep the safeties backed away from the LOS (think Jacksonville in the playoffs), the greater the options Brady will have in front of him.

 

[bradmahn]

Tom IS comfortable with the Gaffer, but Training Camp is where you meet new friends (WRs) and build on it. Folks are WAY too early prognosticating who vs who, unless one player is a DUD, which is not the case here. Injuries happen. Let's see.

That about says it all.

Another thing about any sort of camp battle for playing time, specifically starting, is that they don't always end in training camp. It's more important that Jackson has a good camp and develops a relationship with Brady (and right now is the only considerable amount of time he has had to do so) thereby positioning himself to earn more playing time as the season progresses, just as Gaffney did last season.

All is not lost if Jackson isn't starting in September (but I expect him to be).

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I'd agree. Gaffney produces and Jackson has not. I hope the best for CJ but until he produces it's just potential.

 

[signbabybrady]

Except that Gaffney doesn't provide much of a downfield threat. He does a lot of the same things that makes Welker so valuable. Without a deep threat opposite Moss (what Stallworth was intended to provide), you see defenses leave a corner on an island and shade the rest of the defense to pinch Welker, zone cover Watson or even middle blitz Brady.

The key to the defensive numbers is the opposing safeties:

4 for pass rush
2 for Moss (best CB plus best cover safety)
2 for Welker (slot DB plus LB working the middle shading him)
1 for Watson (probably a LB)
1 for WR opposite Moss (#2 CB)

That leaves the other safety. If that safety is free to step up, it gives the D lots of options. If that safety has to stay back to protect against Watson (deep middle against a LB) and the WR opposite Moss (fly pattern against #2 CB), the numbers don't look good for the defense.

Also, notice I didn't mention any coverage for the RB. That is because there is none. When Maroney got a delayed screen pass in 2007, he generally has acres of green in front of him before he hit the first defender. Again, the more you can keep the safeties backed away from the LOS (think Jacksonville in the playoffs), the greater the options Brady will have in front of him.

Fine single Watson, Single gafney, and leave a RB wide open just to have a roaming safety.

Gafney is enough of a deep threat. obviously Chad Jack is a better deep threat honestly what do you think opens things up more for the other guys? Someone like Gafney who you have to cover all over the field but may not be as good a deep threat or someone like Chad Jack who has the speed to be a better deep threat but has not proven to be the complete reciever Gafney is.

Don't get me wrong I am high on Chad Jack too and I don't think it is far fetched for him to eb the number 3 guy this year straight out of camp but that doesn't make Gaff less of an option for Brady.

 

[Metaphors]

Fine single Watson, Single gafney, and leave a RB wide open just to have a roaming safety.

Not what I meant. The difference is a deep safety vs one pressed up closer to the LOS. The former just protects against deep routes, which are a small part of any offense. The latter allows for different defensive formations that can protect against the draw, jump middle routes, light up any receivers running crossing routes, blitz Brady, etc.

Gafney is enough of a deep threat.

He really isn't. He doesn't pass the eyeball test or the stats test.

obviously Chad Jack is a better deep threat honestly what do you think opens things up more for the other guys? Someone like Gafney who you have to cover all over the field but may not be as good a deep threat or someone like Chad Jack who has the speed to be a better deep threat but has not proven to be the complete reciever Gafney is.

The point is that you don't have to cover Gaffney all over the field. He works the middle of the field really well but you already have folks there to deal with Welker. Moss and Welker together almost forces a defense to go nickel. Gaffney outside doesn't affect the game plan in the same way. CJack has the skills to provide that impact, now he just has to earn that role.

Don't get me wrong I am high on Chad Jack too and I don't think it is far fetched for him to eb the number 3 guy this year straight out of camp but that doesn't make Gaff less of an option for Brady.

Actually even if CJack gets the flanker position opposite Moss, I still think Gaffney could end up with more catches and/or yards. Gaffney will still get plenty of snaps and since he can line up everywhere and will likely be in motion a lot, it will be difficult for the other team to account for him. That is why I differentiate between roles and relative value. CJack's natural role is outside opposite Moss and Gaffney's natural role is inside (4 WR set or sub for Welker) and certain formations on the outside. That doesn't necessarily make CJack more valuable to the success of the offense.

 

[bradmahn]

Actually even if CJack gets the flanker position opposite Moss, I still think Gaffney could end up with more catches and/or yards. Gaffney will still get plenty of snaps and since he can line up everywhere and will likely be in motion a lot, it will be difficult for the other team to account for him. That is why I differentiate between roles and relative value. CJack's natural role is outside opposite Moss and Gaffney's natural role is inside (4 WR set or sub for Welker) and certain formations on the outside. That doesn't necessarily make CJack more valuable to the success of the offense.

I haven't heard anything from camp reports, but...

Part of the appeal of Jackson for many draftniks and scouts was that he had played outside his sophomore year and in the slot his junior year. He's probably just working on the one position right now, but they may envision him having the same positional flexibility in the future. To have so many fungible pieces would be a big bonus, in my opinion.