Pats, Kraft, Goodell, & The Opt Out

[The Boston Patriot]

I'm looking at the report that Goodell doesn't want the owners to opt out of
the CBA with the players union. Interestingly enough that only nine teams
need to stand up and be counted as wanting to opt out. Do you think that
Kraft will stand behind Goodell or Jerry Jones on this one? My guess is that
this is Goodell's swan song with the league reins.

 

[Pats726]

I'm looking at the report that Goodell doesn't want the owners to opt out of
the CBA with the players union. Interestingly enough that only nine teams
need to stand up and be counted as wanting to opt out. Do you think that
Kraft will stand behind Goodell or Jerry Jones on this one? My guess is that
this is Goodell's swan song with the league reins.

Mods....maybe merge this with the CBA thread??

 

[upstater1]

I'm looking at the report that Goodell doesn't want the owners to opt out of
the CBA with the players union. Interestingly enough that only nine teams
need to stand up and be counted as wanting to opt out. Do you think that
Kraft will stand behind Goodell or Jerry Jones on this one? My guess is that
this is Goodell's swan song with the league reins.

Well, I'm not sure why you're characterizing it as Goodell OR Jerry Jones.

The big market teams are more in favor of the current CBA. So it should be Goodell AND Jerry Jones.

The Patriots were one of the big market teams that had some (little) sympathy with the small market teams, and they deemed the key provisions of the current CBA as perhaps too tough for the smaller market. The Patriots were one of the key mediators that gave into the Bills, Bengals and Jaguars.

So... I'm just not sure whose side Kraft will take, but I'll bet you in will be the one that makes for long-term stability of the league and franchise.

 

[signbabybrady]

Kraft will make his decisions based on his pocket and what he percieves as best fro the NFL.....Goodell's misdealings and spygate will have nothing to do with his decisions.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Kraft will make his decisions based on his pocket and what he percieves as best fro the NFL.....Goodell's misdealings and spygate will have nothing to do with his decisions.

But as one of the more respected (and big market) owners, Kraft is operating form a position of strength and now it is Goodell who needs him to prevent the owners from opting out. If he thinks that the current CBA is not in his, the Patriots' or the league's best interest, he may opt to vote to opt out or try to convince other owners to do the same. From that standpoint, it is Goodell who must appeal to Kraft if he wants to keep the current CBA. It's a pretty strong bargaining chip to have, if you want to view it that way.

 

[signbabybrady]

But as one of the more respected (and big market) owners, Kraft is operating form a position of strength and now it is Goodell who needs him to prevent the owners from opting out. If he thinks that the current CBA is not in his, the Patriots' or the league's best interest, he may opt to vote to opt out or try to convince other owners to do the same. From that standpoint, it is Goodell who must appeal to Kraft if he wants to keep the current CBA. It's a pretty strong bargaining chip to have, if you want to view it that way.

That is still going by the assumption that Kraft will do something for spite. You are right in that Goodell may very well be pleading to Kraft to keep the peace but I still don't think Kraft will be vengeful with Goodell as he gains nothing from doing so.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Kraft will make his decisions based on his pocket and what he percieves as best fro the NFL.....Goodell's misdealings and spygate will have nothing to do with his decisions.

Absolutely. You're 150% right.

Kraft owes nothing to "The NFL" and even less to the small market team players and coaches who, over the past nine months, ripped at will what he has built in New England (can you say "Dungy" or "Chargers" or "Bills"?). He should sit down and do a cold calculation about what is best for him and decide accordingly.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Kraft will make his decisions based on his pocket and what he percieves as best fro the NFL.....Goodell's misdealings and spygate will have nothing to do with his decisions.

I agree with this but if it comes down to his influence/interests conflicting with
the NFL office, I expect that he will not subjugate those any longer for those
in the opposition. That was the point I was trying to make (poorly I guess).

 

[Rob0729]

Well, I'm not sure why you're characterizing it as Goodell OR Jerry Jones.

The big market teams are more in favor of the current CBA. So it should be Goodell AND Jerry Jones.

The Patriots were one of the big market teams that had some (little) sympathy with the small market teams, and they deemed the key provisions of the current CBA as perhaps too tough for the smaller market. The Patriots were one of the key mediators that gave into the Bills, Bengals and Jaguars.

So... I'm just not sure whose side Kraft will take, but I'll bet you in will be the one that makes for long-term stability of the league and franchise.

Actually Jerry Jones has been very vocal against the current CBA recently. He feels the new CBA has swung the pendulum too far in the players' direction. So Jones is definitely on the opt out of the current CBA.

Remember the big market teams are footing a lot of the bill for the small market teams.

 

[upstater1]

Remember the big market teams are footing a lot of the bill for the small market teams.

Well, with a hard salary cap, that's not going to change. The NBA has a luxury tax as well which prevents the cap from rising to a level set by the most profitable franchises. Teams help subsidize the smaller market.

Again, with the current deal, the players will be making a hefty profit, but the big teams will stay ahead of the curve as player costs eat up the operating revenues of the smaller teams.

The current deal favors big market clubs because it makes paying to the salary cap very difficult for the smaller market clubs. When you're paying the players 60% of revs and not including seat licenses and luxury boxes, etc., then you know that the smaller market clubs are being squeezed.

 

[NEPatriot]

Pats should OPT out of salary cap situation because it has done more harm than good to Pats. Before you start to criticize me for saying it, allow me to explain.

People are saying that salary cap is good for NFL beause it gives every team an equal opportunity to win. It's hardly a good reason because your team will suck if you don't have the right coaches and players or a good owner. In this case, having salary cap in the league will not definitely improve your sucky team any way.

Pats has lost some good players in the past few years because of salary cap. If we retained them, we would have more than 3 SB rings because we have right coaches, players, and owner. Is it something you expect from a good team.? Absolutely. Some of you probably don't like it but life is unfair and it's competition.

Perhaps, you need to hire good coachs or players to improve your team instead of depending on salary cap to save your ars. Salary cap has not worked if you look at all the worst NFL teams.

Agree or disagree.?

 

[castlelong1]

Good point, parity is dead. In the playoffs regularly are the Patriots, Colts, and Broncos.

With the salary cap we had the Dallas dynasty, Denver's repeat, the Patriot's dynasty The Eagles going to 4 straight NFC Championship, etc.

Oh, can someone list big market teams? I only know Dallas an NE.

I'd guess the NY teams, although technically they each get half the NY market.

Can the large market teams form a separate league and cut loose the Bengals and Bills of the world (unless 1 moves to L.A.) I assume 16 is the magic number.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, with a hard salary cap, that's not going to change. The NBA has a luxury tax as well which prevents the cap from rising to a level set by the most profitable franchises. Teams help subsidize the smaller market.

Again, with the current deal, the players will be making a hefty profit, but the big teams will stay ahead of the curve as player costs eat up the operating revenues of the smaller teams.

The current deal favors big market clubs because it makes paying to the salary cap very difficult for the smaller market clubs. When you're paying the players 60% of revs and not including seat licenses and luxury boxes, etc., then you know that the smaller market clubs are being squeezed.

You are right it won't change that the large market teams will subsidize the smaller market teams, but it is how much they subsidize them. A more favorable CBA that puts less stress on smaller market teams means that the less the big market teams have to give up of their profits.

 

[upstater1]

Pats should OPT out of salary cap situation because it has done more harm than good to Pats. Before you start to criticize me for saying it, allow me to explain.

People are saying that salary cap is good for NFL beause it gives every team an equal opportunity to win. It's hardly a good reason because your team will suck if you don't have the right coaches and players or a good owner. In this case, having salary cap in the league will not definitely improve your sucky team any way.

Pats has lost some good players in the past few years because of salary cap. If we retained them, we would have more than 3 SB rings because we have right coaches, players, and owner. Is it something you expect from a good team.? Absolutely. Some of you probably don't like it but life is unfair and it's competition.

Perhaps, you need to hire good coachs or players to improve your team instead of depending on salary cap to save your ars. Salary cap has not worked if you look at all the worst NFL teams.

Agree or disagree.?

Disagree.

The Patriots have managed the salary cap better than anybody.

Without a salary cap, there's no way that the Patriots absolutely throttle the Redskins last year, because that berserk owner Snyder would own half the league.

Without a salary cap, Bob Kraft is vying with 10 other owners to have the right to pay Randy Moss $15 million.

The only thing preventing the rich guys from going after Moss, or heck, Tom Brady, is a salary cap.

I like this league more than ever the way it is now (that is, prior to the rules changes made for the prissy Colts). I grew up a big baseball fan, but I hardly enjoyed the 2 WS wins because there's no glory in bludgeoning teas with a 1/4 of your payroll. Curt Schilling, for instance: mercenary.

 

[upstater1]

You are right it won't change that the large market teams will subsidize the smaller market teams, but it is how much they subsidize them. A more favorable CBA that puts less stress on smaller market teams means that the less the big market teams have to give up of their profits.

Agreed.

There is definitely a give and take between players, and big market/small market owners.

In Buffalo this morning, there was an article that showed that the Bills were the 7th most profitable team in the league.

So a lot has to do with revenues, but just as much has to do with stadium situation, local support via taxes, managing your payroll properly (i.e. avoiding the Redskins' model), and other factors.

 

[NEPatriot]

Without a salary cap, Bob Kraft is vying with 10 other owners to have the right to pay Randy Moss $15 million.

The only thing preventing the rich guys from going after Moss, or heck, Tom Brady, is a salary cap.

If Eagles was willing to pay Samute 50 mil, nothing would stop Moss and Brady from accepting 15 mil except their loyalty to Pats.

 

[upstater1]

If Eagles was willing to pay Samute 50 mil, nothing would stop Moss and Brady from accepting 15 mil except their loyalty to Pats.

That's just not true.

You have to have salary cap space.

Brady knows that his salary is limited in a sense by what the top QB makes, and he also knows that--in a salary cap situation--his team will not win as much if he makes a huge chunk of the pie.

If you get rid of those two factors, there is absolutely no reason that you can give to Moss or Brady for paying them less, especially when you're one of the biggest earning franchises.

You can't say Randy, we can't go above $10 because we wouldn't have enough left to fill the kind of competitive team we need.

People need to recognize that the Patriots have done so well under the current system, but under a new system, there would be greater player movement and less continuity. I'm sure Belichick could adjust but the fact is, no team excels in the current era the way the Patriots do.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Disagree.

The Patriots have managed the salary cap better than anybody.

I agree

Without a salary cap, there's no way that the Patriots absolutely throttle the Redskins last year, because that berserk owner Snyder would own half the league.

Maybe but we could bank on Snyder screwing this up as well.

Without a salary cap, Bob Kraft is vying with 10 other owners to have the right to pay Randy Moss $15 million.

I disagree. Revenues by teams will dictate who can pay and who can not.

The only thing preventing the rich guys from going after Moss, or heck, Tom Brady, is a salary cap.

Not so. If there were no salary cap, I doubt both Brady and Moss would
simply go to the highest bidder.

I like this league more than ever the way it is now (that is, prior to the rules changes made for the prissy Colts). I grew up a big baseball fan, but I hardly enjoyed the 2 WS wins because there's no glory in bludgeoning teas with a 1/4 of your payroll. Curt Schilling, for instance: mercenary.

OK. I like bludgeoning other teams regardless of the conditions.

 

[NEPatriot]

That's just not true.

You have to have salary cap space.

Brady knows that his salary is limited in a sense by what the top QB makes, and he also knows that--in a salary cap situation--his team will not win as much if he makes a huge chunk of the pie.

If you get rid of those two factors, there is absolutely no reason that you can give to Moss or Brady for paying them less, especially when you're one of the biggest earning franchises.

You can't say Randy, we can't go above $10 because we wouldn't have enough left to fill the kind of competitive team we need.

Everything you mentioned is the result of their personal sacrifice and has NOTHING to do with salary cap. If Moss or Brady doesn't like what Pats offers, they can choose to leave the team to go to the highest payer. At this point, Pats either lets them go or places a tag on them.

People need to recognize that the Patriots have done so well under the current system, but under a new system, there would be greater player movement and less continuity. I'm sure Belichick could adjust but the fact is, no team excels in the current era the way the Patriots do.

BB was the one who told the owner to talk to Lakers' owner about salary cap because this guy knew it well.

 

[mgteich]

I don't expect that Kraft will vote to opt out of the deal that he all but wrote. Do you really believe that Kraft is not making lot of money under the current system? Kraft will do whatever he needs to do to benefit his company, as he should. Kraft will not operat out of spite.

Personally, I don't believe that the patriots will make more money without the CBA.

And, I do NOT believe that we have lost players due to the salary cap. The players do get an apprpriate amount of money. I see no reason to believe that Kraft would pay more without a cap.

I know that there is a lot a stupidity going around, but I don't think Jones will vote against the CBA either.