Poll: Tomase a victim?

[DarrylS]

What he did was unforgivable, he needs to move on to another city, another beat or even another profession..

 

[Angry Man]

My only question is....is Tomase that Jared kid from the Subway commercial pre weight loss? Or the androgynous Pat from that Saturday Night Live sketch?

I'd say Pat myself.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

As I said in the other thread, "He isn't a victim. But he isn't a evil villain either. He is a guy who made a mistake.

Let summarize the mistake. Assuming that a guy who job is to videotape games was at an opposing teams practice, then he must have been there to tape it."

On the issue of forgiving him. I neither forgive nor not forgive him. He didn't do anything to ME. He did not defame me.

Kraft, BB, and the 2001 Patriot players must decide if they forgive him or not. That is there call, not mine.

(Side note: If you want to read a great book on Forgiveness, read "The Sunflower" by Simon Wiesenthal. I take the Jewish stance on forgiveness, that only the one harmed can forgive, it is not up to others. Likewise I can not forgive or not the Catholic priest who molested children. Only those molested can forgive or not forgive. The Christian view is you can forgive someone who did not harm you, makes no sense to me.)

For those of us who were not actually employed by the New England Patriots, the question is not of forgiveness but of trust. Can we trust the accuracy of Mr. Tomasse's reporting going forward?

Quite frankly I never thought the reporting in the Herald was that good before this, preferring the NYT or BG for better news. The only reason I would ever read the Herald is if I wanted to read something and the other papers were sold out, or if I was taking mass transit, because it is easier to read. Nothing that has happened as changed by view of the relatively poor reporting of the Herald.

While I agree that only the person harmed can give forgiveness. I disagree completely that we as fans were not harmed by that story.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

While I agree that only the person harmed can give forgiveness. I disagree completely that we as fans were not harmed by that story.

To some extent everyone in society is harmed, every time a member of society acts wrongfully.

I was sickened by reading the accounts of Catholic Priest molesting children. I was shocked by the images of the blown apart Federal Building in Okl city. To some extent I was harmed by both of those. By I was not the victim in either of those case, I was a bystander.

Many fans have allowed the "12th man" myth pervert their thinking. Unless you draw a paycheck from Bob Kraft, calling the Patriots "we" is a stretch. On Sundays, I do not call plays, catch balls, or tackle the opposing team, I convert beer into urine. I do not win or lose football games, the Patriots do.

I am considerable more sickened by reading the accounts of what happened to the victims of child molesters, then I have ever been by what Tomasse did.

But it is not my place to forgive or not forgive the child molesters. I was not the victim, my harm was secondary. In fact even if it was my own child it would not be my place to forgive or not to forgive. It would the child's. If you were to rape my sister, I could neither forgive you, nor not forgive -- only my sister could.

This make murder unforgivable, there is no one to ask forgiveness to.

Tomase defamed BB. He defamed the 2001 Patriots squad. It is up to them, not me to decide to forgive him or not.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Tomase a victim?

What happened - did some anonmymous second hand party accuse him of being a child molester and the Herald went and reported it in the paper?

 

[BSR]

I voted "He was purposefully negligent and did not care - I'll never forgive him." but I can forgive him. It is just football afterall.

 

[Evil Tom]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

Let summarize the mistake. Assuming that a guy who job is to videotape games was at an opposing teams practice, then he must have been there to tape it."

There's 2 things a newspaper reporter can't do. You can't use someone else's work and present it as your own and you can't write fiction and present it as fact. It's also a bad idea to write a story that gets the readers to boycott your paper and companies that advertise in it.

The reason he went with the story is he knew a reporter from the NY Times was talking to Walsh. Tomasse probably just thought "If I run my rumors first and he nails down the story with real sources a day or 2 later I'll get the credit." That's not plagiarism but it's not that far from it. It's certainly unethical, but if his speculation had turned out to be true Tomasse might have even won an award for it. It might have helped him get a job in the future if/when the Herald goes out of business.

It's fair to question whether his unnamed source exists as anything more than someone who confirmed they had also heard the rumors. He never saw a videotape. No one he talked to ever saw a video tape. He doesn't even explain what his one "strong" source told him. Why was this a strong source? A reporter is supposed to present facts not conjecture.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

To some extent everyone in society is harmed, every time a member of society acts wrongfully.

I was sickened by reading the accounts of Catholic Priest molesting children. I was shocked by the images of the blown apart Federal Building in Okl city. To some extent I was harmed by both of those. By I was not the victim in either of those case, I was a bystander.

Many fans have allowed the "12th man" myth pervert their thinking. Unless you draw a paycheck from Bob Kraft, calling the Patriots "we" is a stretch. On Sundays, I do not call plays, catch balls, or tackle the opposing team, I convert beer into urine. I do not win or lose football games, the Patriots do.

I am considerable more sickened by reading the accounts of what happened to the victims of child molesters, then I have ever been by what Tomasse did.

But it is not my place to forgive or not forgive the child molesters. I was not the victim, my harm was secondary. In fact even if it was my own child it would not be my place to forgive or not to forgive. It would the child's. If you were to rape my sister, I could neither forgive you, nor not forgive -- only my sister could.

This make murder unforgivable, there is no one to ask forgiveness to.

Tomase defamed BB. He defamed the 2001 Patriots squad. It is up to them, not me to decide to forgive him or not.

I don't agree at all.

By YOUR logic, Belichik only owed an apology to Kraft, yet he apologized to all Patriots fans. We are all part of this, it's not a "corporate thing".

We as fans are "owed" a lot of things...

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

There's 2 things a newspaper reporter can't do. You can't use someone else's work and present it as your own and you can't write fiction and present it as fact. It's also a bad idea to write a story that gets the readers to boycott your paper and companies that advertise in it.

The reason he went with the story is he knew a reporter from the NY Times was talking to Walsh. Tomasse probably just thought "If I run my rumors first and he nails down the story with real sources a day or 2 later I'll get the credit." That's not plagiarism but it's not that far from it. It's certainly unethical, but if his speculation had turned out to be true Tomasse might have even won an award for it. It might have helped him get a job in the future if/when the Herald goes out of business.

It's fair to question whether his unnamed source exists as anything more than someone who confirmed they had also heard the rumors. He never saw a videotape. No one he talked to ever saw a video tape. He doesn't even explain what his one "strong" source told him. Why was this a strong source? A reporter is supposed to present facts not conjecture.

I won't argue he wasn't wrong.

He was wrong. He made a mistake. No debate there. Everyone agrees including Tomasse that he violated the rules of journalism.

He presented conjecture as facts. And he got it wrong. But he is not the first and we won't be the last journalist to do this. And he did it on relatively minor issue -- a sporting event. Not the economy, not WMD, not the military record of a presidential candidate, not the safety of automobiles, not inspection of nuclear power plant, not baby food safety, not the rescue of a POW, not on terrorism -- but on a game.

I dare say if every journalist who did what Tomasse did was fired, then every newspaper would have a crossword puzzle and cooking section -- and thats it.

 

[jsinger121]

Tomase is no victim. He is a careless sportswriter who should be fired from the Herald. If anyone of us in the regular world made a mistake like that at our job we would have been canned. Its that simple.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Mr Tomasse, if you're lurking...

"How do you like these apples?!"

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

I don't agree at all.

By YOUR logic, Belichik only owed an apology to Kraft, yet he apologized to all Patriots fans. We are all part of this, it's not a "corporate thing".

We as fans are "owed" a lot of things...

Nope. By my logic, BB owes an apology to the players and coaches of the opposing teams. Its up to them to forgive him or not forgive him, not Kraft, not the fans of the Pats, not the fans of the opposing teams.

BB needs to explain what happened to my satisfaction to have my trust, as does Tomasse. But neither owes me an apology.

This week BB explained his mistake from September and Tomasse explained his mistake his from February. Both were long overdue.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

Nope. By my logic, BB owes an apology to the players and coaches of the opposing teams. Its up to them to forgive him or not forgive him, not Kraft, not the fans of the Pats, not the fans of the opposing teams.

BB needs to explain what happened to my satisfaction to have my trust, as does Tomasse. But neither owes me an apology.

This week BB explained his mistake from September and Tomasse explained his mistake his from February. Both were long overdue.

But Belichik has ALREADY apologized to the fans. He did that in his statement following Goodell's levying of the penalties.

So why did he apologize to us if he didn't owe us one?

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

But Belichik has ALREADY apologized to the fans. He did that in his statement following Goodell's levying of the penalties.

So why did he apologize to us if he didn't owe us one?

You will have to ask him that. We are not in the same book club and although I could pick BB out of a lineup I don't know him well enough to speak to his reasoning.

I am of the mindset neither Tomasee nor BB owes me an apology. But I felt both needed to explain themselves if they had any chance of earning my trust.

Both have apologized to me. Both have explained themselves. Both made a mistake. For me the explanation of what happened was way more important than the apology.

I trust given the harm to the reputation both of them, neither will make the same type of mistake in the future. New and different mistakes -- absolutely, we all make mistakes.

I predict of all the sport reporters out there, the person this year who will be the slowest to jump to a conclusion or report conjecture as fact this will be Tomasse.

I also expect that in both 2007 and 2008, there is no sports organization that is more careful to make sure they stay within the rules than the New England Patriots.

This both because both of them will be being watch more carefully and also because they both have learned their lesson.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

You will have to ask him that. We are not in the same book club and although I could pick BB out of a lineup I don't know him well enough to speak to his reasoning.

I am of the mindset neither Tomasee nor BB owes me an apology. But I felt both needed to explain themselves if they had any chance of earning my trust.

Both have apologized to me. Both have explained themselves. Both made a mistake. For me the explanation of what happened was way more important than the apology.

I trust given the harm to the reputation both of them, neither will make the same type of mistake in the future. New and different mistakes -- absolutely, we all make mistakes.

I predict of all the sport reporters out there, the person this year who will be the slowest to jump to a conclusion or report conjecture as fact this will be Tomasse.

I also expect that in both 2007 and 2008, there is no sports organization that is more careful to make sure they stay within the rules than the New England Patriots.

This both because both of them will be being watch more carefully and also because they both have learned their lesson.

One final word on "apologies"...if you do any reading on "how to know if you need to apologize", you'll find that it's not up to anyone but the person who is offended. In other words, if you say something to someone or about someone, and that person tells you you insulted them, you owe them an apology, no matter how you feel or what your intentions.

How often have you told your wife or girlfriend "that's not what you meant" to no avail?

I will say that filming signals did not offend me at all. None of spygate offended me. So I wasn't waiting for an apology but I guess Belichik felt he owed Patriot fans an apology, so who am I (or you) to question that?

I see it as if he apologized, one was owed, plain & simple.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

You will have to ask him that. We are not in the same book club and although I could pick BB out of a lineup I don't know him well enough to speak to his reasoning.

I am of the mindset neither Tomasee nor BB owes me an apology. But I felt both needed to explain themselves if they had any chance of earning my trust.

Both have apologized to me. Both have explained themselves. Both made a mistake. For me the explanation of what happened was way more important than the apology.

I trust given the harm to the reputation both of them, neither will make the same type of mistake in the future. New and different mistakes -- absolutely, we all make mistakes.

I predict of all the sport reporters out there, the person this year who will be the slowest to jump to a conclusion or report conjecture as fact this will be Tomasse.

I also expect that in both 2007 and 2008, there is no sports organization that is more careful to make sure they stay within the rules than the New England Patriots.

This both because both of them will be being watch more carefully and also because they both have learned their lesson.

That's one place where the opinions might differ. See Tomasse lied, indirectly, to my face. For that he owes me an apology, and he can't have it now, nor will he ever have my forgiveness. BB didn't lie to me. As far as I know, he's never outright lied about anything to us.

 

[alvinnf]

The only victims in Tamase's daily routine are the bakers dozen donuts he horks down between his studio and heez cubicle.

 

[castlelong1]

Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

Nice random selection of a "small market" newspaper...where did that come from?

Primaries. They mention it in the Iowa caucuses coverage.