The Dante Scarnecchia Secret?

[signbabybrady]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Dante really had his guys ready to deal with the Giants pass rush during the SB.

Thats one game.

How about the fact that this guys has turned several day two draft picks and journeymen into Linemen who contributed to a Super Bowl and one or two who compete for pro bowls (not inlcuding 1st round pick Mankins).

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Thats one game.

How about the fact that this guys has turned several day two draft picks and journeymen into Linemen who contributed to a Super Bowl and one or two who compete for pro bowls (not inlcuding 1st round pick Mankins).

That's great but what does that have to do with the SB?

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Well, that depends. If the teacher was teaching you geometry all week and the test was really on algebra then yes.

So what was Dante teaching since you must have audited that class? Once you can tell me, then I can answer your question about whether I'm satisfied in how he prepped them.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

That's great but what does that have to do with the SB?

the firat three words of my response had to do with the Superbowl.

Originally Posted by signbabybrady
Thats one game.

if you want to use one game as a litnus test than you can make anyone look like the worst coach ever and you can make almost anyone look like the best coach ever.

example: if you look at last years Pats v. Skins game you may wonder why Gibbs is a hall of Fame coach, but that would be stupid because his Credentials were established well before that game as Scar's credentials as a great O-line and position coach were established well before the super bowl. But if you want to tarnish this guys rep by byeing into a dumb conspiracy theory than I guess I can't stop you.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

That's great but what does that have to do with the SB?

So you're the type that judges the worth of an individual on a one day performance. Get in line with the rest of 'em.

For the vast majority of the season the offensive line played their asses off. The offense doesn't set records and the team never gets to the Super Bowl without Scarnecchia or the play of the line.

And you have no idea whether or not the offensive line just didn't execute or if they were ill prepared so don't act as if you do.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Just to add to my last statement.

I said Dante was one of the best in the business. Why? Because his results, peers, etc.

You said, what about the Giants game?


The problem is that you have a teacher with a proven track record and then you respond with "then why did johny fail the test?"

Sorry if you don't see the hole in that logic but I'm sure it's pretty obvious to many. Just because the line failed, doesn't make Dante a bad coach. That's a logical fallacy called a Post Hoc argument.

Post Hoc argument

• The name in Latin means "after this therefore because of this". This describes the fallacy. An author commits the fallacy when it is assumed that because one thing follows another that the one thing was caused by the other.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

So what was Dante teaching since you must have audited that class? Once you can tell me, then I can answer your question about whether I'm satisfied in how he prepped them.

Hey, you brought up the math test analogy. And I suppose you're a Patriots assistant coach and were present for all the practices leading up to the SB too.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Hey, you brought up the math test analogy. And I suppose you're a Patriots assistant coach and were present for all the practices leading up to the SB too.

I don't need to be there to say that he's a good coach. He's proven that over the years. You used a single failure of his line to counter that argument and that's where you introduced a Post Hoc fallacy. You have no record of his failure to prepare them for the game. You really should just quit this because you're bad at it.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

And you have no idea whether or not the offensive line just didn't execute or if they were ill prepared so don't act as if you do.

Either way they got schooled...can we agree on that? And it wasn't just for one series or quarter it was for 3/4 + of the game.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

I don't need to be there to say that he's a good coach. He's proven that over the years. You used a single failure of his line to counter that argument and that's where you introduced an Post Hoc fallacy. You really should just quit this because you're bad at it.

Okay, how well did they do against Indy when they were letting Freeny fly into the backfield?

How about their inability to find an answer for Jason Taylor.

I'm not saying the guy's a bad coach but the line has had some serious lapses in big games...and against specific players.

The reason I focus on the SB was because I've never seen the O-Line get dominated like that and really make no adjustments...or made adjustments that didn't solve the problems.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Everyone seems to be jumping on the "He's a good coach" argument... which I do not refute.

But lot's of really good coaches get canned when there is a coaching turnover just because he is not the new HC's guy. Being a great coach is usually not enough.... Dante has stuck around... he's like the immovable object.

I'm glad for it, but I can't help but notice that Steve was Walsh's successor. I didn't realize he was with that Jets now.... Ha! That is even more juicy!

Is he the only one though? Check out the coaches on the staff. You might be surprised.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Okay, how well did they do against Indy when they were letting Freeny fly into the backfield?

How about their inability to find an answer for Jason Taylor.

I'm not saying the guy's a bad coach but the line has had some serious lapses in big games...and against specific players.

The reason I focus on the SB was because I've never seen the O-Line get dominated like that and really make no adjustments...or made adjustments that didn't solve the problems.

So, you don't grasp the correlation of teams with better defensive lines being more successful against opponents than teams with lesser defensive lines? Jason Taylor just made DPOY because of his play against the Patriots?

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Jason Taylor just made DPOY because of his play against the Patriots?

He got it because Merriman got busted for 'roids.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Okay, how well did they do against Indy when they were letting Freeny fly into the backfield?

How about their inability to find an answer for Jason Taylor.

I'm not saying the guy's a bad coach but the line has had some serious lapses in big games...and against specific players.

The reason I focus on the SB was because I've never seen the O-Line get dominated like that and really make no adjustments...or made adjustments that didn't solve the problems.

How about the 18 other games they won? What's your point. Anyone can cherry pick information. It's the body of work that tells the story. Look, it's pretty obvious you're going to continue down this path so I'll bail here.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

How about the 18 other games they won?

Like the awesome display in the second Jets game or the blow-out in Baltimore?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Pats fan but I'm not a big fan of the O-line...I never really was. SB loss notwithstanding.

 

[Blizzzard]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

If you are like me, you have always wondered why past coaching shakeups have claimed many a casualty, but never seemed to affect Dante Scarnecchia.

I found this little tidbit quite interesting:

"Mr. Specter said Mr. Walsh also told him about games taped in between, when Mr. Walsh was a Patriots season-ticket holder and witnessed his successor, Steve Scarnecchia, engage in similar videotaping against the Steelers (September 2002 and October 2004) and Cowboys (November 2003)."

(Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/sports/football/15nfl.html?_r=1&ref=football&oref=slogin )

You have to wonder how long Steve Scarnechia has been involved in covert ops for the Pats and whether or not that had any affect on how Dante remained the one constant for the Patriots.

Not taking anything away from Dante, because he is a great coach. Also, I realize that video taping may not have occurred before BB arrival as HC, but there are other ways to spy.

Maybe there is nothing to this and I am overreacting, but it is a better explanation than Dante having pictures of Kraft posing naked with Marv Albert.

I happen to think that it's more interesting that Steve Scarnechia now works for the Jets.

Since his primary job with the Pats seemed to be taping signals after Walsh left.
I wonder what his primary job is for the Jets now, and why Mangini felt he needed to steal someone away from our staff, with his kind of "expertise"... and what he wanted him to do with the Jets?

"hey Steve, you operate a great camcorder, why don't you come COACH for me? LOL what a joke.

Plus I think it was the other way around. Dante is a great coach and valuable to the Pats, that they gave his son a fluff job that only required zipped lips and no other skill.... like holding a camera.

 

[Blizzzard]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Everyone seems to be jumping on the "He's a good coach" argument... which I do not refute.

But lot's of really good coaches get canned when there is a coaching turnover just because he is not the new HC's guy. Being a great coach is usually not enough.... Dante has stuck around... he's like the immovable object.

I'm glad for it, but I can't help but notice that Steve was Walsh's successor. I didn't realize he was with that Jets now.... Ha! That is even more juicy!

Honestly, its the position he coaches. How often do you see the "heads roll" of offensive line coaches after a dissapointing season? Not very often.

Especially when you have 3 probowlers on that line in 2008, and always having a pretty good line filled with late round picks (with the exception of Mankins, because he arrived after those superbowls) and an undrafted wrestler?

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Honestly, its the position he coaches. How often do you see the "heads roll" of offensive line coaches after a dissapointing season? Not very often.

Especially when you have 3 probowlers on that line in 2008, and always having a pretty good line filled with late round picks (with the exception of Mankins, because he arrived after those superbowls) and an undrafted wrestler?

Honestly, I think that all coaches are usually let go when the new HC comes in with his own guys.

Also remember that Dante didn't always coach the Oline... he's been a position coach in several areas.... I think he was a ST coach as well.

 

[PatsDeb]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Do you mean to tell me that the two guys Walsh has outed as cheaters (Steve Scarnecchia and Dabol), were both hired by Mangini? That can't be. Mangini is anti-cheating, and turned in one of his best friends for it (SARCASM intended).

This is the irony of all ironies that I have felt reading these supposedly "covered up by the Patriots" tidbits - the two names that have been mentioned as coaches directly involved in "spying" (who have never been "outed" by the Pats) were hired away from the Pats by Eric the Rat. I guess he hired them not for the way they professionally go about their business, but in order to save them from the terrible cheater. Ha. Cripes I hope that idiot lies awake in bed at night rueing the day he opened his big fat mouth.

By the way, on the very few occassions I have seen Dante interviewed, he has stated that he stays in NE because his wife won't leave and this is their home. I imagine that one of Kraft's conditions for a new head coaching hire is, "must hire Dante for coaching staff, position negotiable."

 

[Blizzzard]

Re: The Dante Scarnecchia Secret

Honestly, I think that all coaches are usually let go when the new HC comes in with his own guys.

Also remember that Dante didn't always coach the Oline... he's been a position coach in several areas.... I think he was a ST coach as well.

Then you've answered your own question.

Bill B. was never fired, so therefore Dante was never let go :bricks: