Face it folks, people are never going to change their views.

[Disco Volante]

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

 

[Gunnails]

As a Jet fan I was very upset when Spy Gate broke back in September. I felt the beat down the Jets got at the hands of the Pats in that game was somehow due to shenanigans on the Pats.

Well after I learned more about what actually happened, I came to realize that the Jets lost because the Pats were a very good football team and the Jets were a poor football team. End of story

Knowledge is a wonderful thing sometimes.

I am not saying the Pats did no wrong, or that the fines were not warranted, just saying that cheating is not why the Pats are such a dominate franchise.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

As a Jet fan I was very upset when Spy Gate broke back in September. I felt the beat down the Jets got at the hands of the Pats in that game was somehow due to shenanigans on the Pats.

Well after I learned more about what actually happened, I came to realize that the Jets lost because the Pats were a very good football team and the Jets were a poor football team. End of story

Knowledge is a wonderful thing sometimes.

I am not saying the Pats did no wrong, or that the fines were not warranted, just saying that cheating is not why the Pats are such a dominate franchise.

It's always nice to have an opposing fan say something like that.

I agree, the Pats did break a rule and they deserved to be penalized for it. Most Patriots fans freely admit that. We've just gotten so tired of seeing the media act like the Patriots introduced cheating into a squeaky clean sport.

The double-standard is outrageous. In 2006, the Dolphins admit to having a video of Brady's audibles after a 21-0 win. The response: "That's just football." Now that the Patriots did essentially the same thing, only their way had a rule against it, the media is doing research to find out if Belichick is in fact Satan.

Again, thanks. From what I've seen, I think slowly more and more fans are starting to turn.

 

[slash83]

I can give a rats ass to what people think bout the Pats.

 

[YorkHarbor]

As a Jet fan I was very upset when Spy Gate broke back in September. I felt the beat down the Jets got at the hands of the Pats in that game was somehow due to shenanigans on the Pats.

Well after I learned more about what actually happened, I came to realize that the Jets lost because the Pats were a very good football team and the Jets were a poor football team. End of story

Knowledge is a wonderful thing sometimes.

I am not saying the Pats did no wrong, or that the fines were not warranted, just saying that cheating is not why the Pats are such a dominate franchise.

Well said, and all the true football fans I talk to feel the same way.

 

[Gunnails]

It's always nice to have an opposing fan say something like that.

I agree, the Pats did break a rule and they deserved to be penalized for it. Most Patriots fans freely admit that. We've just gotten so tired of seeing the media act like the Patriots introduced cheating into a squeaky clean sport.

The double-standard is outrageous. In 2006, the Dolphins admit to having a video of Brady's audibles after a 21-0 win. The response: "That's just football." Now that the Patriots did essentially the same thing, only their way had a rule against it, the media is doing research to find out if Belichick is in fact Satan.

Again, thanks. From what I've seen, I think slowly more and more fans are starting to turn.

======================================

The truth shall overcome!

I can emphasize with Pat fans to this extent, I like Mangini, Pat fans hate Mangini (at least most, and I think they do so unfairly), and it bothers me that Mangini is labeled as a rat.

As a Jet fan my biggest interest in this whole matter is Mangini and his relationship with Belichick. I find that very intriguing. Is Mangini a cold calculating football genius bastard like BB, or is he a wannabe, backstabbing, rat, pretender.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

======================================

The truth shall overcome!

I can emphasize with Pat fans to this extent, I like Mangini, Pat fans hate Mangini (at least most, and I think they do so unfairly), and it bothers me that Mangini is labeled as a rat.

As a Jet fan my biggest interest in this whole matter is Mangini and his relationship with Belichick. I find that very intriguing. Is Mangini a cold calculating football genius bastard like BB, or is he a wannabe, backstabbing, rat, pretender.

The jury is out on Mangini. We'll have a good idea of how good he is this season. The way you described Belichick, there in lies a lot of the problem I think. If this incident involved Tony Dungy or another well liked coach, I truly don't think it'd be as big a deal.

 

[Sivy]

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

Oh hey, you’re right

 

[Jackson 2]

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

100% correct. Well said.

 

[HSanders]

======================================
As a Jet fan my biggest interest in this whole matter is Mangini and his relationship with Belichick. I find that very intriguing. Is Mangini a cold calculating football genius bastard like BB, or is he a wannabe, backstabbing, rat, pretender.

Well I don't think that cameragate was what made their relationship icy, but obviously it didn't help. I am fairly sure we will never know the full story on what happened to wreck their relationship, but I've read of Mangini's recruiting coaches from the Pats staff on the flight back from losing the Denver playoff game and his filching of a company laptop with Pats stuff on it which may have resulted in his being locked out of the Pats' facilities. Not sure what if any of that is true, but if it is, that is likely enough to kill that relationship for awhile in and of itself. If he was the driving force behind the cameragate thing then I do think they will likely never be that friendly again. Coaches who violate the coaches loyalty thing aren't well regarded by peers from what I understand.
I believe he wasn't experienced enough to be a HC especially a first time one somewhere as high profile as NY. Then again, I think HCs should rise through the ranks and be coordinators for a few years at least before they become HCs. I don't know how much of what I have heard about Jets' players recent media forays of discontent are related to him alone or to the FO in general though.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

It does appear no one gonna change anyone's mind, I agree. I think this whole spygate fiasco has drawn Patriot fans together more then ever and that's a good thing.

People will think what they will. Healthy debate with rival fans is always enjoyable as well. However, I prefer not to do it here, so I travel to opposing boards to do my battle.

Either way, no harm, no foul.

this isn't life or death (hear that Arlen?), it's just sports.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

atleast the bandwagoners left this site

now all we have left are football fans, who like the Patriots. sounds good to me. As for those outside patsnation? f'em

 

[Nordberg]

The funny thing is the fact that fans of other teams have gotten worse since we learned the tapes never left Matt Walshs possession during the games. Hasn't that been every critics stance for the last 9 months. "Half time adjustments...they would yell at the top of their lungs."

I am floored that hasn't become a very big story in all this. It really is just being glossed over....and I can't believe it.

 

[RussFrancis]

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

DV-

Youre so on point it hurts. Its like sitting in a classroom and having some scrawny little kid behind you pluck your ear all throughout class. Some little guy that you can turn around and drop with one punch. But you know if you do, you'll end up suspended and unable to play in the big game tomorrow afternoon. You want to turn around and slap the guy, but instead you just keep taking it on the chin, letting that little punk pluck your ear all class. What to do, what to do. Except in this case, there's no teacher to stand up and point out what the hell is going on. There's a substitute that just doesnt want to get involved. We're getting very little help from even the neutral, rational fans of other teams that understand the actual gravity of this whole affair without hating and blowing it beyond reasonable proportion. Even now that the actual walkthrough tape has failed to materialize, it continues because Walsh was in the building so God knows he must have been using some Jedi-mind-memorization trick to instantly remember the entire thing. Im throwing my hands up. Highly frustrating dealing with fans across the country that hate our squad. Jealousy is an ugly, ugly thing.

 

[RussFrancis]

We Pat Fans are just going to have to except that all NFL fans, not just Jet Fans, will view the Pats success under Belichek the same as they view Barry Bonds breaking the Home Run record. On Sirius radio yesterday, Tim Ryan (who toured with the USO) related how soldiers in both Afghanistan and Iraq booed lustily at the mention of the Patriots, and even louder at the mention of Belicheck - the only NFL team and manager they booed when mentioned.

In the end, we have to accept the fact that the Pats were caught cheating - there is no question about that. They were caught after being given a warning, in print in 2006, not to do it again.

As much as I like Belichek, it must be stated that he has damaged the Patriot image with actions in this case. On top of that, Goodell made it clear in yesterday's news conference that he doesn't believe Belichek's claim that he didn't know it was cheating when they were filming the Pats.

We have to be able to ignore the claims that the Patriot Dynasty is tainted, because those claims will never go away.

Youre not a Pats fan, you knucklehead. that's been pretty well established. If youre going to continue any commentary, dont for a second PRETEND to be a Patriots fan.

 

[RussFrancis]

Sorry to disappoint you but I am a die-hard Patriots fan, but also a realist. You can pretend I'm not if it makes you feel better, but I am a Pats fan and one who can put the Spygate issue in proper perspective. This scandal does not change my opinion of the Pats one bit, and I will always cheer for them, but I must admit my opinion of Belichek has changed, because of his actions and then denials after being caught red-handed.

Uh, NO. You can lie and tell your tales on other boards. Im sure youre a 5-star TROLL on ESPN boards. That crap's not working here. Give it a rest. Your post history and timing pretty much speak for themselves. You have absolutely no love for this organization whatsoever, and that is beyond obvious.