For those who were fans pre-1988

[spacecrime]

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

I don't mean Kraft will go broke or the NFl will take over the franchise or anything, but sometimes things take on a (nightmare) life of their own.

I don't see spygate ending on Tuesday. I hope I'm worng, and I won't know until Friday because I'll be backpacking, but I think we fans are as naive as Chuck Sullivan to think this will end.

We are working from logic, and there is no logic to this.

Remember, there was never any evidence, not one single independent lab test, that showed cyclomates were any different than saccharin. Cyclomates had a bad image due to a single test. A combination of cyclomates and saccharin were shown to cause cancer. For no apparent reason, cyclomates were selected as the bad guy.

Why single out cyclomates (Patriots) when logic told you saccharin (Colts, any other team) did the same thing? No reason, but cyclomates never beat the PR rap. And this was in an era when PR and perception wasn't one-millionth of what it is today.

Just a (fearful) thought.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

No. The only lingering effect will be the occasional dumba$$ that will refer to it as their only come-back. Other than that, I believe this to will pass as long as Goodell puts it to rest once and for all this week, as it should be.

 

[JoePats]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

No. The only lingering effect will be the occasional dumba$$ that will refer to it as their only come-back. Other than that, I believe this to will pass as long as Goodell puts it to rest once and for all this week, as it should be.

I agree. Goodell just has to come out and dismiss the new tapes, which is what he should have done months ago. You're always going to have a few whackos out there who can't comprehend basic facts but they don't represent the majority of the population, or at least they don't represent the intelligent portion.

 

[GostkowSKI]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

Where I think Roger Goodell screwed up is look at the NFL camera-gate thing vs. the NBA's Tim Donaghay thing.

David Stern sent out a memo that he would be the only voice on the gambling scandal, and that no one else was allowed to comment on it. The result? Most people forgot about that after 2 weeks.

Had Goodell put a "gag order" on NFL players/coaches, this would be gone already as well.

 

[BelizePats]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

You hit the nail on the head Space in terms of there being no logic with this situation. The Genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in. "Spygate" is now out there, for good. It does not matter what boatloads of evidence there are that say other teams did it too and that many other liberties are taken by other teams looking to gain competitive advantage. (The Colts piping in crowd noise, etc)
We got caught so we are the cheaters. This is the world we now live in. 10 second sound bites, video games, short attaention spans. Critical analysis is dead dead and gone for the majority of Americans and Canadians. Most people don't want to do the heavy lifting of thinking for themselves. It's just too hard when really great things like American Idol and Dancing withe the Stars are on TV and there's 54 ounce Big Gulps to be consumed at the convenience store.
Actually bothering with facts? Well, that's just for suckers!!!

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

I don't think this will linger on. I'm being optimistic, Greg Aiello (NFL) said that the tapes were exactly as BB and the Pats have admitted too. Therefore, there is nothing new and we were hung out to dry for it. It's funny but everyone that is against us refuses to listen Jimmy Johnson when he admitted this is exactly the same thing that he did when he was coaching.

 

[DESERTPAT]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

You hit the nail on the head Space in terms of there being no logic with this situation. The Genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in. "Spygate" is now out there, for good. It does not matter what boatloads of evidence there are that say other teams did it too and that many other liberties are taken by other teams looking to gain competitive advantage. (The Colts piping in crowd noise, etc)
We got caught so we are the cheaters. This is the world we now live in. 10 second sound bites, video games, short attaention spans. Critical analysis is dead dead and gone for the majority of Americans and Canadians. Most people don't want to do the heavy lifting of thinking for themselves. It's just too hard when really great things like American Idol and Dancing withe the Stars are on TV and there's 54 ounce Big Gulps to be consumed at the convenience store.
Actually bothering with facts? Well, that's just for suckers!!!

I like the way you think Belize.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

No.
One salient difference is that the MJ tour debacle had a tangible effect on the franchise finances translating into an inferior product on the field. A real effect on the field product. Cameragate has a lingering effect in the media. I could not care less what mediots write and say on TV as I avoid their product which is a worthless waste of time. The BB haters will not abandon their false religion and I won't stop enjoying a quality product on the field. Disjoint sets.

 

[Frezo]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

So what happens to this batch of tapes? Does Goodell have the sack to destroy them or will they be turned over to Spector? If Spector gets them will it only be a matter of time before ESPN gets copies? Think about it, you're a Steelers fan watching ESPN and there is a segment about Spygate 2. You see film of Steeler coaches on the sidelines giving signals, then a shot of the clock and then the formation. signals...clock...formation, signals...clock...formation. Then there's Mort breaking it all down showing how the Pats made adjustments when the same play was run again later in the game. (adjustments are part of the game, but fans will believe what they want to) I think it's a fair bet to say Steeler fans are going to flip out. Now add the other 3 or 4 teams that are part of this batch of tapes and you can see where this will go.

If Spector is only allowed to view the tapes and not get any copies then Goodell has clearly stopped in the middle of the road by somewhat appeasing Spector and perserving the NFL, but does he have the power and authority to deny Spector possesion of the tapes and how far will Spector go to get them?

If the tapes are destroyed immediately Spector will go nuts and Goodell will be putting a lot on the line.

If Spector obtains the tapes get ready for a s**tstorm the sports industry hasn't seen since Pete Rose.

 

[FortressX]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

No.
One salient difference is that the MJ tour debacle had a tangible effect on the franchise finances translating into an inferior product on the field.

I agree.
There are no ownership worries here.They are stable and solvent.
Until this week I was stupid enough to believe that after Walsh showed Goodell he had no walkthrough tape of any opposing teams practice, this would really die down. After reading the reactions of numerous morons out and about on the net I am not so sure."Oh Walsh had 8 tapes and BB only turned in 6, so there is something new" GIVE ME A BREAK.
Anyway I think this will be like the Jeff Gordon/NASCAR situation and the hate will go on until we suck again.

 

[Joker]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

First off.... I SAW Jim "Bo" Nance run wild like a bowling ball downhill in the old AFL. I've sat in lightning storms on metal benches with "season" tickets through what can only be described as one long "Twilight Zone" episode in Patriot history.

THIS?...this is all about Rat/Jetdell.I will NEVER have anything but utter contempt for this MORON, and before anyone gets all upset at the seemingly personal epithet,at least LOOK at this CLOWN'S body of work so far, the seemingly goo gee gaa gaa little freakin' girl show of giddy joy when he called pick #6 at the recent NFL draft, the little rich kid taking his ball home attitude with the Patriots, the ongoing trudge into oblivion of this Matt Walsh farce....on and on this IDIOT has blundered and blubbered his way through these past few seasons showing a level of incompetance that rivals ANYTHING this Patriot fan has seen in 57 years of living in the USA.

The Patriots will be fine under the ownership and leadership of Robert Kraft.THe NFL could become a disaster area if this intergalactically moronic, blubbering,blithering idiot Jetdell is allowed to run amok as comissioner.

 

[chris66]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

I don't think so. Out of the 14 years kraft has own the team there has been only 3 losing seasons. 10 out of 14 playoff appearences. kraft is pretty smart guy he will not let it get to that

 

[castlelong1]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

I don't mean Kraft will go broke or the NFl will take over the franchise or anything, but sometimes things take on a (nightmare) life of their own.

I don't see spygate ending on Tuesday. I hope I'm worng, and I won't know until Friday because I'll be backpacking, but I think we fans are as naive as Chuck Sullivan to think this will end.

We are working from logic, and there is no logic to this.

Remember, there was never any evidence, not one single independent lab test, that showed cyclomates were any different than saccharin. Cyclomates had a bad image due to a single test. A combination of cyclomates and saccharin were shown to cause cancer. For no apparent reason, cyclomates were selected as the bad guy.

Why single out cyclomates (Patriots) when logic told you saccharin (Colts, any other team) did the same thing? No reason, but cyclomates never beat the PR rap. And this was in an era when PR and perception wasn't one-millionth of what it is today.

Just a (fearful) thought.

Yes, and no.

The Victory tour almost ended pro football in NE. (St. Louis Patriots anyone?)
Now the Patriots are big. I could be wrong, I probably am. I think this is the end of the NFL.
Remember who were the peace makers in the small market-big market feud. I forget the others, but Kraft was one. If he is as pi$$ed off as me, he does not make peace. Is that enough for the opt out vote? Who knows.

I think if they never again have a salary cap the league collapses in a few years with a work stoppage.

Hopefully some teams survive and form a new league.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

The sullivans, almost killed the Pats, not the Jacksons.. Chuck Sullivan in particular, he mis managed a lot of the company money, and this was one of the choices that almost cost NE the Pats.. Sullivans were nice folk, just bad owners of pro football, and if it was not for Robert Kraft for not signing over the stadium lease, this board might not exisit.

 

[RayClay]

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

I don't mean Kraft will go broke or the NFl will take over the franchise or anything, but sometimes things take on a (nightmare) life of their own.

I don't see spygate ending on Tuesday. I hope I'm worng, and I won't know until Friday because I'll be backpacking, but I think we fans are as naive as Chuck Sullivan to think this will end.

We are working from logic, and there is no logic to this.

Remember, there was never any evidence, not one single independent lab test, that showed cyclomates were any different than saccharin. Cyclomates had a bad image due to a single test. A combination of cyclomates and saccharin were shown to cause cancer. For no apparent reason, cyclomates were selected as the bad guy.

Why single out cyclomates (Patriots) when logic told you saccharin (Colts, any other team) did the same thing? No reason, but cyclomates never beat the PR rap. And this was in an era when PR and perception wasn't one-millionth of what it is today.

Just a (fearful) thought.

Just play football. Posters on this board are keeping it alive as much as anyone. Look at the front page.

 

[RayClay]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

Yes, and no.

The Victory tour almost ended pro football in NE. (St. Louis Patriots anyone?)
Now the Patriots are big. I could be wrong, I probably am. I think this is the end of the NFL.
Remember who were the peace makers in the small market-big market feud. I forget the others, but Kraft was one. If he is as pi$$ed off as me, he does not make peace. Is that enough for the opt out vote? Who knows.

I think if they never again have a salary cap the league collapses in a few years with a work stoppage.

Hopefully some teams survive and form a new league.

I think you should all join an "end days of the NFL" religious cult and take off in a spaceship.

Sports sites are fanning this because their's no real news for months in the NFL.

I bet the NY Times, ESPN and Tomase are reading this board right now and thanking the Lord for all the chicken littles keeping their spurious story alive.

Patsfans.com, let's face it, your paranoia and doomsday predictions are the only story now. why not quit it.?

 

[NoCal Patriot]

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

I don't mean Kraft will go broke or the NFl will take over the franchise or anything, but sometimes things take on a (nightmare) life of their own.

I don't see spygate ending on Tuesday. I hope I'm worng, and I won't know until Friday because I'll be backpacking, but I think we fans are as naive as Chuck Sullivan to think this will end.

We are working from logic, and there is no logic to this.

Remember, there was never any evidence, not one single independent lab test, that showed cyclomates were any different than saccharin. Cyclomates had a bad image due to a single test. A combination of cyclomates and saccharin were shown to cause cancer. For no apparent reason, cyclomates were selected as the bad guy.

Why single out cyclomates (Patriots) when logic told you saccharin (Colts, any other team) did the same thing? No reason, but cyclomates never beat the PR rap. And this was in an era when PR and perception wasn't one-millionth of what it is today.

Just a (fearful) thought.

I think it's apples and oranges.Spygate will pass when something else comes along.I don't know what that will be but it will happen.The jackson Tour was just The Sullivan Family and not the franchise.

 

[Michael]

Are you getting the feeling that the long-term effects of Spygate are going to have a similar effect on the Pats as the Michael Jackson tour?

I don't mean Kraft will go broke or the NFl will take over the franchise or anything, but sometimes things take on a (nightmare) life of their own. :blahblah:

It won't end until people stop obsessing about it. Starting right here. I for one have moved on and anyone that thinks the Pats are "cheaters" are just proving they don't have a clue what they are talking about. So they are laughable.

 

[castlelong1]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

I think you should all join an "end days of the NFL" religious cult and take off in a spaceship.

Sports sites are fanning this because their's no real news for months in the NFL.

I bet the NY Times, ESPN and Tomase are reading this board right now and thanking the Lord for all the chicken littles keeping their spurious story alive.

Patsfans.com, let's face it, your paranoia and doomsday predictions are the only story now. why not quit it.?

I hope you are right. Doesn't change a thing.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Re: For lthose who were fans pre-1988

So what happens to this batch of tapes? Does Goodell have the sack to destroy them or will they be turned over to Spector? If Spector gets them will it only be a matter of time before ESPN gets copies? Think about it, you're a Steelers fan watching ESPN and there is a segment about Spygate 2. You see film of Steeler coaches on the sidelines giving signals, then a shot of the clock and then the formation. signals...clock...formation, signals...clock...formation. Then there's Mort breaking it all down showing how the Pats made adjustments when the same play was run again later in the game. (adjustments are part of the game, but fans will believe what they want to) I think it's a fair bet to say Steeler fans are going to flip out. Now add the other 3 or 4 teams that are part of this batch of tapes and you can see where this will go.

If Spector is only allowed to view the tapes and not get any copies then Goodell has clearly stopped in the middle of the road by somewhat appeasing Spector and perserving the NFL, but does he have the power and authority to deny Spector possesion of the tapes and how far will Spector go to get them?

If the tapes are destroyed immediately Spector will go nuts and Goodell will be putting a lot on the line.

If Spector obtains the tapes get ready for a s**tstorm the sports industry hasn't seen since Pete Rose.

Goodell needs to air at least one of the tapes to show people what's on them. Take the mystery out of it. These tapes may be a blessing in diguise because Goodell was accused of hiding something when he destroyed the 1st batch. Now the stolen tapes get shown to the public so nobody can accuse the Patriots or Goodell of tampering with them when these tapes don't show much of anything. As far as this hurting the Patriots long term I don't think it will. Heck Belichick just won coach of the year with all this nonsense going on. Life is a pendulum and you'll start to see the momentum start to swing the other way. You're now seeing it with mediots like Mike Wilbon saying enough is enough and at some point the Patriots needs to START TALKING ON THIS ISSUE. The Patriots are to blame for their complete mishandling of this from day 1. They need to start defending themselves. Their silence (sorry but press releases don't quite make it) has killed them and has allowed the media witchhunt to fill the empty void.