PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

New York Times writer calls for Belichick 1 year suspension


Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe somebody should remind this guy, that while we have already been punished for this, the Jest have never been punished for tampering with Deion Branch and making it impossible to retain him.... Thus, possibly causing us to lose out on a SB XLI appearance and even a possible SB win!

If only he were there, we might not have been left at the mercy of Reche Caldwell who dropped a pass my 4 year old could have caught, with no coverage on him at all.

So basically in my opinion, the Jest deceptive and ILLEGAL acts, cause us to lose a possible 4th superbowl title.... isn't that enough punishment at the hands of New York?

Maybe we should have said that we were just taping the Jest sideline to make sure none of the coaches were making hand gestures and the "call me" sign (with a fake 2 finger phone to their head) to Asante Samueal or Randy Moss..... since they were obviously trying to pull the same crap during Asante's holdout last offseason.

I think I will email this guy and say we are open to a suspension (not really) as long as Mangina would be suspended and we get their first round pick next year.

Think he'll go for that?
 
I think the problem is actually worse than you imagine. These media luminaries have so much invested in there being something "more" to Spygate and have spewed forth so much vitriolic rhetoric over the last eight months, especially since the Tomass article, that they CAN'T just let this die.

The Araton piece is an obvious attempt to influence Specter and his staff, who no doubt read the New York Times everyday.

This is where the Patriots have played this all wrong from day one, in my opinion (and I have said so out here since September). Instead of adopting an aggressive, crisis-control approach to the media, they left it to the good people of this Board to assemble the facts and try to get the media to pay attention to them.

As a result, aside from the New England media, there is no one out there defending the Patriots, while charge after absurd charge goes unchallenged.

The Patriots failed to realize that this is like a political campaign, where unchallenged lies become "real facts" simply because they are repeated time and time again without systematic refutation.

Maybe Bob Kraft is just too much of a gentleman and assumed that reason would prevail. However, Reason never prevails when there is a media feeding frenzy.

The Patriots needed to hire an aggressive, tough crisis management specialist the day this story broke, who would not let a single charge go unchallenged, either by sending out a "friendly" talking head like Jimmy Johnson or by planting a friendly story with someone else in the media. They should have approached this like a do-or-die political campaign, instead of sitting back and letting the attacks build beyond all rationality.

In my opinion, the way the Patriots have handled this entire matter with the media is an example of how NOT to manage a crisis.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Patriots now lose the endgame of this mess, with a weak and fearful Roger Goodell caving in to Specter and the national media and imposing more "punishments" instead of saying that the whole affair is over--simply because it is the easier thing to do.

I agree with you.

Fans by and large couldn't care less about the steroid scandal. But the way the media has contextualized "spygate", even using that word, and "cheating", has some how embedded in the public consciousness the way steroids never did.

There is an unusual venom attached to these criticisms of the Pats, a venom I haven't yet been able to identify clearly. It transcends sports, or entertainment. It is almost like these people if permitted would commit violent action. We have seen that encouraged by Wilbon, and if you read other fans message boards, they are constantly wishing physical injury on Patriots players. And it has become acceptable to make those statements.

It is almost like the media has whipped up a bloodlust frenzy, and directed it against our team. There is something very unhealthy about it. It is like they have created a scapegoat for public furor and male frustration around the country, and the details of the case are incidental.

They are now just reveling in their creation of an "Enemy", about whom they are in universal agreement. There is a fascist element to this.
 
Well if a writer for the NYT is calling for a BB suspensioon, I guess that is what will have to happen.:eek:
 
That scumbag Mike Fish has also put out a new column if anybody cares...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=fish_mike&id=3387401

What a CorkSoaker Mike Fish is.

He says that Goodell keeps referring to us taping "defensinve signals".. like that is his proof we need more punishment.
Doesn't he realize that Goodell just refers to us taping defensive signals, because thats what he saw and we were accused of.... and tha we were punished for taping signals..PERIOD! The rule is against taping signals, not 3 different rules about taping each units type of signals!

We were punished for breaking that rule, and all that that rule encompasses.

He later goes on to clarify this with Goodells own statement of it encompassing them all. He freaking contridicts his ownarguent later on in his own article!!!!!

He also tries to further indict us base on the fact that these tapes not only exist, which we already knew, but that they are much more sophisticated than he thought. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?! Of course they are sophisticated. What about audio/video in this days world is not sophisticated? My damn cell phone can take a picture in black and white, negative, tin etching or color. then I can edit it on the phone... put your face on the mona lisa.. add text and then either email it to myself or my friends homes and phones, post it immediately to Myspace, or text message it to the Gillette stadium operator during the game for display on the jumbotron! Forget what it can do with video. Come to think about it, maybe thats what Jim Mora was doing when he got in trouble a few years back for being on his cell phone on the sideline during a game :p

These people are supposed to be journalists, who are educated in the english language and how sentences are structured.
But, when breaking down Goodells words, they seem to be on the level of 9 year olds arguing over who would win in a fight.. superman or the hulk.
 
Last edited:
What a CorkSoaker Mike Fish is.

He says that Goodell keeps referring to us taping "defensinve signals".. like that is his proof we need more punishment.
Doesn't he realize that Goodell just refers to us taping defensive signals, because thats what he saw and we were accused of.... and tha we were punished for taping signals..PERIOD! The rule is against taping signals, not 3 different rules about taping each units type of signals!

We were punished for breaking that rule, and all that that rule encompasses.

These people are supposed to be journalists, who are educated in the english language and how sentences are structured.
But, when breaking down Goodells words, they seem to be on the level of 9 year olds arguing over who would win in a fight.. superman or the hulk.

If there is a tape of the Special Teams coach signals, we will probably see the media asking for a public execution.

Oh, and by the way, Marvin Harrison is still being investigated for shooting someone, Michale Vick is still in prison for dog murder, and Chris Henry is allowed to visit other teams because he got fired for being arrested about 30 times. But let's keep focusing on the Pats, they are the bad guys.

PS: CBS Sportsline has a good piece up about this: http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10819413
 
Last edited:
That is a great article. this guy makes all the points we have been making... even calling Walsh and Goodell Douche's in a roundabout way.

This guys awesome... are we sure he isn't a poster here?

On a side note. I voted on the poll, and it shows 41% saying this new news means they should "throw the book at the pats". Did the people who voted even read the article..lol.
 
Last edited:
Does this author believe that his NY team is going to win a AFC division championship when BB is out for 1 year.?
 
PS: CBS Sportsline has a good piece up about this: http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10819413

I've given up on worrying about what other fans think. So much so that the comments made by "Hatriots" on that column made me laugh out loud. Public perception means **** in the NFL - hasn't that been shown time and time again? So give it up folks who feel that Bill tarnished the game, or is a cheater, or gained an advantage that others didn't (uh, like that is in itself illegal), or... or... or whatever else they'd like to whine and complain about.

The fact is, what the Patriots did has been done for years and wasn't "illegal" until 2006. They didn't use the tapes in-game and they had no effect on the game that was being played. The entirety of the ordeal looks even more foolish when you consider the coaching carousel that the NFL has become, where assistants lose jobs mid-season and head coaches last three years on average. Teams have acknowledged they change their signals not only from game to game, but from quarter to quarter (and if you aren't doing so against an opponent you've seen twice then you have no business being employed by anyone, let alone a multi-million dollar business). One would also think new coaches or staffs would make those changes more frequently.

Continue to think what the Patriots did was a travesty, but I expect to see the same sort of disapproval and call for heads when an offensive lineman clutches a defenders jersey or a cornerback interferes with a pass - and I am open to hearing that those infractions should be viewed more dubiously, as those rules are grounded in something more concrete than a memo (or should Miranda in accounting be fined $500,000 because she failed to attach a cover sheet to her TPS reports?).
 
Last edited:
I've been reading some of those comments on the CBS sportsline story, and 1 thing strikes me. The Patriots supporters keep responding to things like "they cheated" with.. taping signals is not against the rules. And the next response from a hater is "they cheated" and do not even attempt to respond to the fact that taping is not illegal. It goes on like that ad neaseum.
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"

Don't they see that their lack of response to the fact it is not cheating, makes them look stupid? After hearing it is not illegal (probaly for the first time) they should just stop posting. But obviously these people have selective hearing. I can see why, but aren't they concerned about looking dumb?

You know what I would love to see next season? A little phone booth thats open in the front placed behind the 100 section seats, where the beer hawkers are, that is plainly visable and painted with big bold letters that read: Legal signal taping location! or even section off places like they do with smoking sections. That would definately get some attention during broadcasts, and it would make the announcers explain that what the pats did was not illegal in principle.
I even want them to put somebody in the booth with a camera. Since the Pats have taken a stance and acted like they didn't think it was wrong, they should just stand up and keep doing it. Maybe eventually other teams will do the same and it will just be accepted as standard practice.
The commissioner should just make every team install these things at every stadium, for both teams. Since the regulation is in effect, then they should manage it like they do every other regulation. This might be the best way for him to turn this whole thing around after he botched it.

I know this is a pipedream, but it would work.
 
Last edited:
I've been reading some of those comments on the CBS sportsline story, and 1 thing strikes me. The Patriots supporters keep responding to things like "they cheated" with.. taping signals is not against the rules. And the next response from a hater is "they cheated" and do not even attempt to respond to the fact that taping is not illegal. It goes on like that ad neaseum.
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"
"They cheated by taping"
"taping is not illegal"

Don't they see that their lack of response to the fact it is not cheating, makes them look stupid? After hearing it is not illegal (probaly for the first time) they should just stop posting. But obviously these people have selective hearing. I can see why, but aren't they concerned about looking dumb?

You know what I would love to see next season? A little phone booth thats open in the front placed behind the 100 section seats, where the beer hawkers are, that is plainly visable and painted with big bold letters that read: Legal signal taping location!or even section off places like they do with smoking sections. That would definately get some attention during broadcasts, and it would make the announcers explain tha what the pats did was not illegal in principle.
I even want them to put somebody in the booth with a camera. Since the Pats have taken a stance and acted like they didn't think it was wrong, they should just stand up and keep doing it. Maybe eventually other teams will d the same and it will just be accepted as standard practice.
The commissioner should jus make every team install these things at every stadium, for both teams. this might be the best way for him to turn this whole thing around after he botched it.

I know this is a pipedream, but it would work.

I highly doubt they are worried about looking foolish. It's been 8 months of tunnel vision "TEH *PATS R TEH SUK!!" type stuff...why stop now, no matter how wrong you are.
 
What's lost in this entire farce is that the Pats were punished for a decade.

If you figure the loss of their first round pick could have been somebody that would be serviceable to the team for the next 10 yrs. Its not like losing a late round pick. This was a first round pick and with the success that this team has had in the draft, this potentially could have been a starter for the next decade!

But of course NY writers are not known for their analytical skills or they've just become accustomed to all the bad drafts from the Jets.
 
I agree with you.

Fans by and large couldn't care less about the steroid scandal. But the way the media has contextualized "spygate", even using that word, and "cheating", has some how embedded in the public consciousness the way steroids never did.

There is an unusual venom attached to these criticisms of the Pats, a venom I haven't yet been able to identify clearly. It transcends sports, or entertainment. It is almost like these people if permitted would commit violent action. We have seen that encouraged by Wilbon, and if you read other fans message boards, they are constantly wishing physical injury on Patriots players. And it has become acceptable to make those statements.

It is almost like the media has whipped up a bloodlust frenzy, and directed it against our team. There is something very unhealthy about it. It is like they have created a scapegoat for public furor and male frustration around the country, and the details of the case are incidental.

They are now just reveling in their creation of an "Enemy", about whom they are in universal agreement. There is a fascist element to this.

Very perceptive and well-written post. I don't think your use of the word "fascist" is too far-fetched. Here's how I've thought about what you describe. And, let me say at the outset that I'm not trying to say that the Patriots didn't do some things for which they might reasonably be very strongly criticized by thoughtful fans and observers of the sport. Like you, I'm just trying to explain the astounding level of vitriolic venom that has been directed at the Patriots in the wake of spygate. (I'm also not trying to explain the power politics of Arlen Specter, who is working for Comcast and whose agenda has little to do with football.)

Before they were caught breaking the taping rule, the Patriots had broken a much bigger rule. They had done what no team was supposed to do in the cap and FA era; they had not only fielded consistently excellent teams but they had won three SB's and gone to four AFCCG's in six years. The problem is that the management and owners of most NFL teams had convinced their fan bases that it was impossible to do something like that after 1993 (the Aikman Cowboys straddled the no-Cap and Cap eras). They had told their rabid, frustrated partisans that they should learn to expect consistently mediocre play, punctuated by the occasional foray into the Playoffs and a trip to the SB every 15 years or so. So, there was a whole lot of resentment towards the Pats already festering under the surface.

In addition, the Pats are led by a QB who doesn't fit the mold of "tough guy" players. He would beat his opponents brains in on the field, win two SB MVP's and then nurture a "metro" image off the field (the picture with the lamb sure didn't help), leading to the baseless but widely-spread and believed rumors that he was gay. He was continually contrasted with the "real guy," Peyton Manning. (Please note that I don't "buy" any of this. It's just that this was the image that people chose to believe and we're trying to explain some irrational behavior here.)

Add to that the fact that the team is from "Massachusetts," perceived as a hotbed of educational and cultural elitism, whose major ambassadors in the eyes of the vast stretches of Middle America are Michael Tankman Dukakis, John Windsurfer Kerry and Teddy Too Liberal Kennedy.

Finally, the magnificent and wonderful Kraft family is visibly and proudly Jewish. I'm not saying that this was a major driver of the "venom" you describe and, of course, everyone will deny it in a heartbeat, but when you put the whole package together, there was plenty for narrow-minded, frustrated, bigoted people to hate. You had a consistently dominant team, that was led by a QB who didn't fit a stereotypical mold, that came from Taxachusetts and was owned by a member of a religious minority.
 
Just to add this reference to the fact that the Kraft family was Jewish, Is it a coincidence that Greg Easterbrook who is the biggest Pats hater on ESPN was once fired from ESPN for writing an Anti-Semitic article.
 
Very perceptive and well-written post. I don't think your use of the word "fascist" is too far-fetched. Here's how I've thought about what you describe. And, let me say at the outset that I'm not trying to say that the Patriots didn't do some things for which they might reasonably be very strongly criticized by thoughtful fans and observers of the sport. Like you, I'm just trying to explain the astounding level of vitriolic venom that has been directed at the Patriots in the wake of spygate. (I'm also not trying to explain the power politics of Arlen Specter, who is working for Comcast and whose agenda has little to do with football.)

Before they were caught breaking the taping rule, the Patriots had broken a much bigger rule. They had done what no team was supposed to do in the cap and FA era; they had not only fielded consistently excellent teams but they had won three SB's and gone to four AFCCG's in six years. The problem is that the management and owners of most NFL teams had convinced their fan bases that it was impossible to do something like that after 1993 (the Aikman Cowboys straddled the no-Cap and Cap eras). They had told their rabid, frustrated partisans that they should learn to expect consistently mediocre play, punctuated by the occasional foray into the Playoffs and a trip to the SB every 15 years or so. So, there was a whole lot of resentment towards the Pats already festering under the surface.

In addition, the Pats are led by a QB who doesn't fit the mold of "tough guy" players. He would beat his opponents brains in on the field, win two SB MVP's and then nurture a "metro" image off the field (the picture with the lamb sure didn't help), leading to the baseless but widely-spread and believed rumors that he was gay. He was continually contrasted with the "real guy," Peyton Manning. (Please note that I don't "buy" any of this. It's just that this was the image that people chose to believe and we're trying to explain some irrational behavior here.)

Add to that the fact that the team is from "Massachusetts," perceived as a hotbed of educational and cultural elitism, whose major ambassadors in the eyes of the vast stretches of Middle America are Michael Tankman Dukakis, John Windsurfer Kerry and Teddy Too Liberal Kennedy.

Finally, the magnificent and wonderful Kraft family is visibly and proudly Jewish. I'm not saying that this was a major driver of the "venom" you describe and, of course, everyone will deny it in a heartbeat, but when you put the whole package together, there was plenty for narrow-minded, frustrated, bigoted people to hate. You had a consistently dominant team, that was led by a QB who didn't fit a stereotypical mold, that came from Taxachusetts and was owned by a member of a religious minority.

Now that you mention it, a small scale sports version of the Dreyfus Affair comes to mind.
 
I don't think I've heard one member of the media call for taking away the Cowboys Super Bowl Rings or putting an asterisk next to their season marks. And since they were all gung ho about finding teams that DID spy on practices and engage in filming, how come no outrage on their about how long this has been going on?

http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html


You hit the nail on the head there. I've heard numerous people stand on the rooftops and proclaim that the Pats "cheating" and punishment were the worst in NFL history.

Are memories that short? Didn't the 49ers just lose a draft pick for salary cap violations? Where is the call for that coach to be suspended?

All this wouldn't be so bad if the whiners weren't so hypocritical.

:enranged:
 
Now that you mention it, a small scale sports version of the Dreyfus Affair comes to mind.

Mais oui! J'accuse M. Walsh, M. Tomass, M. Goodell et toutes les autres...
 
Last edited:
Mais oui! J'accuse M. Walsh, M. Tomass, M. Goodell et toutes les autres...

You do realize that "toutes" implies that M. Walsh, M. Tomase et al. are, to use a term from the Planet, "memberless"? ;) :eek:
 
the NY Times is a joke of a newspaper these days and everyone knows it. I do not really care what some new york paper has to say about a boston team, everyone would expect it to be negative.
 
Agreed that the NYT is a shadow of its former self having been infested with moonbat agenda journalism, but unfortunately for us there are people who still read it and regard it as having considerable influence. I'd wager that Spector and Goodell are two examples of readers. A problem for us.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top