Offseason pondering...Inconsistent running game

[cstjohn17]

Something I think has hurt the Patriots in their last 3 playoff losses was an inconsistent running attack.

• 2008 Superbowl - The Giants played a scheme that focused soley on rushing the QB.
• 2007 AFCC - Dillion broke a couple of big runs but in the 2nd half when they really needed to establish the run they couldn't get it going. 1 or 2 more first downs and the Colts don't even get the ball back.
• 2006 - Divisional Game - Denver blitzed like mad, showed a total lack of respect for the running game.

This year the running game looked great against SD and then poor against the Giants. Very up and down.

In the off season I expected either a blocking TE or a mauling guard to be added to the mix to establish more of a physical presence along the line.

Maroney will benefit from a full off season of training, he couldn't really work out last year after his surgery.

Open questions
Will the Patriots try to establish a more consistent running game? How will they do this? Will another year in the zone blocking scheme make a difference? Will a healthy Morris back a difference?

 

[blackglass3]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

Um, how does this apply to Matt Walsh?

Seriously, though, I hope the Pats notice this trend you picked up on. The 2006 AFCCG against the Colts I will say is the anomaly...Dillon broke down pretty quickly that whole year and was just not even close to being what we needed anymore and Maroney had his shoulder/rib/knee/whatever it was injury ever since that Lions game and was just not what we needed.

The other two games you mentioned are very poor game planning and management, and the blame lies fully on the coaching staff. ALL YEAR Maroney was mediocre AT BEST running out of the shotgun. So what did they do in the whole SB? Shotgun. It was ridiculous.

 

[JoePats]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

Open questions
Will the Patriots try to establish a more consistent running game? How will they do this? Will another year in the zone blocking scheme make a difference? Will a healthy Morris back a difference?

I think they will certainly try. The passing game will be good again, but can't be expected to put up the big numbers it did last year.

More than the zone blocking, though another year in the system can't hurt, is simply that Maroney, who was excellent the last 6 games or so and really had no room at all in the Super Bowl, will be entering his 3rd year in the league. He has every right to keep improving. Having Morris back is a plus, he was very effective.

The only way the running game regresses is if the OL plays to the Super Bowl instead of the rest of the games, and I don't see that happening.

So I would say the offense will not be as potent in terms of raw numbers, but will have more of a pass/run balance.

 

[wizwor]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

meh. that guy morris was pretty good, eh? injuries happen. football teams make do. losing the super bowl is a lofty disappointment.

 

[bostonia3333]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I think Belichick used Maroney perfectly last year. He didn't need to against the bad teams. He basically saved him for the playoffs to avoid injury knowing how fragile Maroney was. As far as this year is concerned, I think games against crappy teams like KC, the Jets, Cardinals, Bills, Dolphins, we should run Kyle Eckel like crazy and use Maroney sparingly. Against the big boys like SD and IND, that's where we should use Maroney and Morris fully. I don't think we need a stellar running game to beat 95% of the AFC.

 

[DocE]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I think Belichick used Maroney perfectly last year. He didn't need to against the bad teams. He basically saved him for the playoffs to avoid injury knowing how fragile Maroney was. As far as this year is concerned, I think games against crappy teams like KC, the Jets, Cardinals, Bills, Dolphins, we should run Kyle Eckel like crazy and use Maroney sparingly. Against the big boys like SD and IND, that's where we should use Maroney and Morris fully. I don't think we need a stellar running game to beat 95% of the AFC.

I'd agree that Belichick used Maroney well last year, but I disagree that the Patriots don't need a stellar running game to beat 95% of the AFC. The Patriots easiest game (on paper) in the playoffs was the Giants game and that was the game they ended up needing the running game in.

As for the original post, I also expected the Patriots to add someone (be it a guard, tackle, or tight end) that would add a more physical presence to the Patriots running game. It was reported that the Patriots made a run at OG Mike Wahle when he was released by Carolina, but he quickly signed with Seattle. The Wahle move happened before the start of free agency, so I thought the running game would be a focus of the offseason. The lack of movement tells me that the coaching staff simply believes the line played an absolutely horrible game against the Giants, but either unreported injuries or a fluke bad game was responsible as opposed to lack of talent.

It still so hard to understand how one unit of the ballclub could play so poorly in such a huge game. If the line was simply bad as opposed to horrendous, history would have been made.

 

[richpats]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

It still so hard to understand how one unit of the ballclub could play so poorly in such a huge game.

In the December '06 game at Miami, essentially the same unit played horribly and couldn't handle the speed or different looks that the Dolphins threw at them. I still believe the Pats should have just accepted the fact that their o-line was sucking and gone no-huddle, or at least 3-step drops.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I still believe the Pats should have just accepted the fact that their o-line was sucking and gone no-huddle, or at least 3-step drops.

Changes were made, but they didn't seem drastic enough. They added more tight ends, but really nothing worked until it appeared they started running Moss on shorter routes.

In general, I believe that a healthy Sammy Morris combined with an increasingly effective Laurence Maroney will give the team the balanced attack they need. If I have one criticism of McD over the years - and maybe he took this from Weiss - is that it's easy to get pass-happy when you have Brady as your QB. I think good things happen when you run the ball, even if its not overly effective, you have to keep the D honest. Take the Colts game for example, Maroney didn't break any big runs or anything, but it was effective enough. Same for the NYG week 17 game. And the first drive of the Super Bowl, there was a lot of balance, and we didn't see that balance as much the rest of the game.

 

[richpats]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

Changes were made, but they didn't seem drastic enough. They added more tight ends, but really nothing worked until it appeared they started running Moss on shorter routes.

In general, I believe that a healthy Sammy Morris combined with an increasingly effective Laurence Maroney will give the team the balanced attack they need. If I have one criticism of McD over the years - and maybe he took this from Weiss - is that it's easy to get pass-happy when you have Brady as your QB. I think good things happen when you run the ball, even if its not overly effective, you have to keep the D honest. Take the Colts game for example, Maroney didn't break any big runs or anything, but it was effective enough. Same for the NYG week 17 game. And the first drive of the Super Bowl, there was a lot of balance, and we didn't see that balance as much the rest of the game.

I was going to post something to that effect. While not as glamorous, earth-shattering or record-breaking, balancing the offense pays dividends, especially late in a close game. And Tom Brady is good enough that if you just put the ball in his hands he will succeed MOST of the time.

I believe they came out planning to mix it up on the first drive and just blowing the doors off from there on out. They could have ground out a comfortable 24-10 victory instead of forcing things, giving the Giants confidence and ultimately losing.

 

[RayClay]

To have a consistent running game, you need to run consistently.

Maroney's style is different than Dillon and Morris, but he's certainly not a lightweight. He was a beast near the end of the year.

Hopefully, he'll get clicking with the OLine on the zone blocking. He's the primary.

Morris is an fine straight ahead runner. I love the combination myself.

 

[richpats]

To have a consistent running game, you need to run consistently.

Maroney's style is different than Dillon and Morris, but he's certainly not a lightweight. He was a beast near the end of the year.

Hopefully, he'll get clicking with the OLine on the zone blocking. He's the primary.

Morris is an fine straight ahead runner. I love the combination myself.

Notice that when Morris went down (the Dallas game) that's when the offense started to get crazy - NE had to lean on the pass more, and they were so overwhelming for most opponents that it turned into 48, 49, 50, 56-point games. But this was ultimately bad for the offense as it was less productive over the last 9 games.

NE needs a running game that it has a lot of faith in, like 2004. On 3rd-and-3 everyone in the building knows whats coming - a pass.

 

[PatsFan37]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I still believe the Pats should have just accepted the fact that their o-line was sucking and gone no-huddle, or at least 3-step drops.

I don't have much evidence for this, but my strong feeling is that Brady was hurt more than people know. He has this iron-man persona and his strength is the Pats achilles heel. When he's hurt, the team suffers disproportionately.

No huddle, 3-step drops and quick sideline passes are all fine when Brady is in top form. No huddle against that rush requires tremendous mental agility. Since they're covering the short middle, you have to go outside. Quick sideline passes are thrown as harder or harder than any other pass, since they have to travel 25 yards like a bullet. Between the ankle, the rumors of him being hurt in the first play, I'm guessing there are things we don't know about that game. Yes, that was one heckuva rush, but to hold that offense to 14 pts? Wow.

Though I have the game still on DVR, I haven't yet decided to face it. Maybe this summer when upcoming pre-season games are available to take away the pain. Pats1, you're a brave man to have watched that game twice.

 

[richpats]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I don't have much evidence for this, but my strong feeling is that Brady was hurt more than people know. He has this iron-man persona and his strength is the Pats achilles heel. When he's hurt, the team suffers disproportionately.

Still leads to the question of why they exposed him to the pass rush so much when he could have handed it off more and saved a few hits.

 

[psychoPat]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

Um, how does this apply to Matt Walsh?

....

Yeah.
What a waste of bandwidth.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

I believe they came out planning to mix it up on the first drive and just blowing the doors off from there on out. They could have ground out a comfortable 24-10 victory instead of forcing things, giving the Giants confidence and ultimately losing.

If I ever have the guts to watch that game again, I would watch with this in mind. Heck, if I have the guts to look at the box score or play by play I could probably discern if my feelings were right - but the thought of even looking at that makes me want to vomit. My feeling as the game unfolded was that the first drive was balanced, used a lot of Maroney, and was one of McD's best playcalling drives all season. After that, we pretty much declared if we were passing or running the rest of the game, with the heavy emphasis on passing from the gun in the spread. I could be "misremembering" though.

 

[Deus Irae]

Notice that when Morris went down (the Dallas game) that's when the offense started to get crazy - NE had to lean on the pass more, and they were so overwhelming for most opponents that it turned into 48, 49, 50, 56-point games. But this was ultimately bad for the offense as it was less productive over the last 9 games.

This is a bit of an unfair assertion, in my opinion. Look at the difference between the teams played before that game:

Jets
Chargers
Bills
Bengals
Browns

Of those teams, only the Chargers were a good defense, and they started the season off playing terrible football. Now, taking a look at the teams the Patriots went off on after Dallas:

Miami
Washington
Buffalo

All 3 of these teams had huge problems in their secondary, as did Dallas.

Now, take a look at the rest of the teams played after Dallas:

Colts
Eagles
Ravens (emotional game after Sean Taylor death)
Steelers
Jets (Snow game)
Dolphins (Brady chucking it up for the record)
Giants

The defenses they played in the second half of the season and scored fewer points against were better than the defenses they played in the first half of the season. Toss in the snow game against the Jets and the second half of the Dolphins game where it was clear to everyone watching that Brady was going to throw deep to Moss time and again to try getting the record, and the lower scoring games make sense without having to look for things like the running game to blame.

Now, having said that....

NE needs a running game that it has a lot of faith in, like 2004. On 3rd-and-3 everyone in the building knows whats coming - a pass.

I agree that this team has problem getting the 'tough' yards against quality teams. I don't think it's the running backs that are the problem. I think the relatively undersized line struggles to implement the zone blocking, and it really showed up most when opposing teams were geared to stop the run. I remember seeing opponents hitting Maroney in the backfield time and again. Heck, it's part of the reasoning behind my wanting the team to draft a tackle with that round 1 pick.

 

[BradyManny]

I agree that this team has problem getting the 'tough' yards against quality teams. I don't think it's the running backs that are the problem. I think the relatively undersized line struggles to implement the zone blocking, and it really showed up most when opposing teams were geared to stop the run. I remember seeing opponents hitting Maroney in the backfield time and again. Heck, it's part of the reasoning behind my wanting the team to draft a tackle with that round 1 pick.

When Maroney was getting criticized early in the year, I was breaking down all the running plays in every game. I noticed two things, first, they were far more successful running left and most notably when Kyle Brady was lined up on that side. Second, I noticed how many times defensive players were able to break through and get to Maroney. Frankly, Maroney took a lot of heat, but a lot of times, he would turn a play that should've been for a loss into a couple yards. The OL needs to be more consistent in their run blocking - and I think McD has to do a better job of not declaring run or pass. The team won 18 games by simply out-executing other teams, particularly in the passing game. But based on their formation and their personnel, you can pretty much know if they are running or passing on any given play, and maybe that's true for all teams and I just don't know b/c I don't watch all their games, but I hope next season we see a more balanced approach and one that disguises run or pass a little bit more often.

 

[Deus Irae]

When Maroney was getting criticized early in the year, I was breaking down all the running plays in every game. I noticed two things, first, they were far more successful running left and most notably when Kyle Brady was lined up on that side. Second, I noticed how many times defensive players were able to break through and get to Maroney. Frankly, Maroney took a lot of heat, but a lot of times, he would turn a play that should've been for a loss into a couple yards. The OL needs to be more consistent in their run blocking - and I think McD has to do a better job of not declaring run or pass. The team won 18 games by simply out-executing other teams, particularly in the passing game. But based on their formation and their personnel, you can pretty much know if they are running or passing on any given play, and maybe that's true for all teams and I just don't know b/c I don't watch all their games, but I hope next season we see a more balanced approach and one that disguises run or pass a little bit more often.

Well, another thing we saw out of the 'HEY, WE'RE RUNNING THE BALL!" formations was a tremendous amount of success with play action. I honestly don't think it's a matter of needing more balance, since I'm not really bothered by 44/56 or 43/57 when you've got this much passing firepower. That's just about the same ratio as the Colts, and it's skewed by the team's willingness to just avoid even trying to run the ball against stout defensive lines.

By no means am I saying that the things you mentioned don't play a part in what seemed to be some running problems, I just think it was mostly a matter of inconsistent execution by the offensive line combined with a conservative use of Maroney due to injury/depth concerns.

 

[richpats]

This is a bit of an unfair assertion, in my opinion.

What I'm getting at is the Morris injury took the offensive philosophy off track. It was routinely explosive in the first 5 games with a good balance of run/pass, then it turned volcanic in the next 5 with emphasis on the pass. While scoring was up, the philosophy didn't improve necessarily. During the latter part of the season the Pats basically had to dedicate a whole game to running the ball (Jets part 2) just to get Maroney ready for the postseason. The Jax and SD playoff games were impressive as far as balancing the offense, and while the games were close, the Pats used the running game to take command. In the SB, the Pats had no offensive rhythm except for the 2 scoring drives.

 

[richpats]

Re: Offseason pondering... Inconsistent running game

If I ever have the guts to watch that game again, I would watch with this in mind. Heck, if I have the guts to look at the box score or play by play I could probably discern if my feelings were right - but the thought of even looking at that makes me want to vomit. My feeling as the game unfolded was that the first drive was balanced, used a lot of Maroney, and was one of McD's best playcalling drives all season. After that, we pretty much declared if we were passing or running the rest of the game, with the heavy emphasis on passing from the gun in the spread. I could be "misremembering" though.

I texted a buddy at halftime of the SB, to the effect of "Why are we trying to throw downfield every play?!!?" The Pats offense was extremely impatient that day. They wanted points early, they wanted them quickly. They wanted to put pressure on Eli to force throws.