Lawsuits for Dummies

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Ladies and gentleman, let's all hope there's a big cell reserved somewhere in federal prison for fat boy. It seems to me the Patriots have known all along that Walsh was not the source, and the most valuable information they could attain was that he was not the source. No wonder they would pay his lawyer, fly him to New York, and give him immunity. What they really want is the Herald, and fat boy.

"One night before the Patriots [team stats] face the Giants in Super Bowl XLII, new allegations have emerged about a Patriots employee taping the Rams’ final walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI. According to the source..." - Tomase

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1070762&srvc=home&position=0

Posted by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley:

I just talked to one of my Patriots sources who said several members of the organization were furious with the timing of the report in the Boston Herald indicating a club representative filmed the Rams' final walkthrough before the 2001 Super Bowl.

http://ballhype.com/story/pats_steamed_over_spygate_story_s_timing/

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true. - Peter King

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008...bob-kraft-sue-the-boston-herald-over-pre-sup/

League spokesman Greg Aiello provided details yesterday of the league’s inquiry into the matter in the days following this year’s Super Bowl. “The bottom line is, there is no evidence whatsoever that this walk through tape exists, to this point,” Aiello said. “We were following up on the rumors that circulated Super Bowl weekend, including the idea specifically that there was this Rams walkthrough tape, to see if there was any evidence whatsoever, and nothing was produced.” Aiello confirmed the league’s investigation revealed there was no power supply to the cameras on the afternoon of the Rams’ walkthrough and that the Patriots had left their battery packs at home, making their cameras inoperable from the sidelines.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/04/02/?comments=7194

The Herald cited an anonymous source saying that there was a tape of the Rams' Super Bowl walkthrough but, at the league meetings last month, Patriots owner Robert Kraft denied "the damaging allegation" that such evidence existed.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-patriots8-2008may08,0,325558.story

Tomase, like other writers, had been chasing former Pats employee Matt Walsh ever since a review of the relatively small list of former Pats video employees after Spygate I revealed that Matt Walsh was a person who might have useful information.

It was generally believed among the folks chasing Walsh that Walsh would say that he videotaped the Rams’ final walk-through practice. The only problem is that Walsh wouldn’t actually say it into a tape recorder or other equivalent sound preservation device. Our guess is that Tomase and/or the Herald were reluctant to run with Walsh’s claims absent Walsh going on the record. That stance apparently changed on February 1, when Walsh finally decided to talk on the record, vaguely and incompletely, about his role in practices that might constitute cheating.

Things will only get worse for the Herald and Tomase if Walsh’s May 13 meeting with Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn’t result in corroboration of the controversial February 2 report.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/25/tough-duty-for-tomase/

"Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough," Levy told The New York Times. "Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald article."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8116074/Former-employee-Walsh-sends-Spygate-tapes-to-NFL

 

[maverick4]

What is going to make me really mad the next few days is:

- Sideline taping wasn't clarified or illegal until 2006.
- Taping in a dozen other locations in the stadium was and is still legal.
- Walsh has no new info, however nobody will seem to understand this.
- Everyone is going to blow this totally out of proportion and more 'cheaters' stories and comments will pop up everywhere.

 

[ausbacker]

What is going to make me really mad the next few days is:

- Sideline taping wasn't clarified or illegal until 2006.
- Taping in a dozen other locations in the stadium was and is still legal.
- Walsh has no new info, however nobody will seem to understand this.
- Everyone is going to blow this totally out of proportion and more 'cheaters' stories and comments will pop up everywhere.

That's the fantastic thing about having contempt for the opinions of ill informed people outside the Pats fanbase!

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's the fantastic thing about having contempt for the opinions of ill informed people outside the Pats fanbase!

FWIW, Mike and Mike are talking about it this morning, and their basic angle is "what is the Herald going to do now?"

 

[PatsDeb]

I still think the most Kraft will do is demand Tomase be removed from the Pats beat and that the paper issue a retraction or some sort of apology. He doesn't want this to remain front and center for years; he wants to move on. Bringing a big fat lawsuit leaves it in the public eye for years to come and allows the opposition to continue to dig in your closets (look no further than the Roger Clemens debacle - all that stuff about his extra curricular marital activities is coming out because of discovery in the case he brought against his former trainer for defamation - he should have just walked away).

Everyone has skeletons in their closets, and I don't think we want anyone looking in the Pats organization's any more. An apology allows the Pats to save face, makes the Herald look bad, but allows everyone to move on without further damage. Now, if the Herald won't do it, that's something else.

 

[dante828]

Though I am a lawyer, I don't know much about defamation, not my area of practice. What I do know, it doesn't sound like the Pats would have much of a case against Tomase or ESPN. I think they would have to prove that Tomase or ESPN lied, knew they lied or had reason to believe that they knew what they were saying was false, and lied with the intent of hurting the Pats. I can't see the Pats investing hundreds of thousands of dollars to pursue a lawsuit that has such little chance of success. Then again, maybe I am mistaken about their burden of proof.

Can someone please explain to me, and everyone else, what possible grounds the Pats have to bring suit, and what legal precendence would support there case?

 

[patchick]

Can someone please explain to me, and everyone else, what possible grounds the Pats have to bring suit, and what legal precendence would support there case?

None that I can think of.

It's clear that Tomase's story was just plain wrong. But you can't win a lawsuit for that, especially as a "public figure." You have to prove, as you said, that Tomase and/or his employer had reason to believe the information was false but published it anyway in reckless disregard of the truth. Good luck.

Still though...Tomase simply cited an anonymous source, he never in any way indicated it was Walsh. ESPN made that assumption, and the rest of us ran with it. If it had been Walsh, Tomase would have been absolutely free and clear -- the guy was, after all, a video assistant with the Pats during the time in question, and thus a perfectly reasonable source to rely on.

So the question now is: who was the bogus source who got Tomase to bite?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Though I am a lawyer, I don't know much about defamation, not my area of practice. What I do know, it doesn't sound like the Pats would have much of a case against Tomase or ESPN. I think they would have to prove that Tomase or ESPN lied, knew they lied or had reason to believe that they knew what they were saying was false, and lied with the intent of hurting the Pats. I can't see the Pats investing hundreds of thousands of dollars to pursue a lawsuit that has such little chance of success. Then again, maybe I am mistaken about their burden of proof.

Most of what you wrote is correct, but it's worth noting that the Herald recently lost a libel suit over a different matter.

 

[dante828]

Most of what you wrote is correct, but it's worth noting that the Herald recently lost a libel suit over a different matter.

Good to know, definitely shows the Herald may not have the highest journalistic standards....but we knew that already. It's still hard to relate that case to this one without knowing the facts.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Court Shmourt! Suit Shmuit!

I don't want the Patriots to waste their time by suing these people and taking them to court (it will take years for an uncertain outcome, especially if they, a rich and powerful institution in the public spotlight, are trying to claim libel or damages.).

Rather, I want the Patriots to use the same tactics that were used on them and rip the throats out of the people who did this to them.

I want them to hire the nastiest, most negative, most unprincipled PR/Investigative firm in New York or Washington and dig up every bit of fair or unfair, true or untrue, dirt they can find on everyone from Goodell to Banks to Specter to Comcast Management to King to Clayton to Fisch to Tomass to...the list goes on and on. I want the Patriots to try to destroy these people like they tried to destroy the Franchise that Bob and Jonathan and Scott and Bill and Tom built over the years.

I want Bob Kraft to thumb his nose at the NFL and the CBA this year and watch self-righteous franchises like Indy and San Diego figure out how to be competitive in an uncapped world, where the Pats will do just fine thank you.

OK, maybe they can file a few suits, but just nuisance suits. The kind that will keep these people paying legal bills and wasting time for the next five years. Kraft has a lot of money. He can drain their bank accounts for a decade and not even miss what he's spending out of petty cash.

It's scorched earth time, baby! It's our turn. We're baaack and you better get out of our way and pray that we're not too mad at you.

Other than that, I don't have any strong feelings on this subject.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I still think the most Kraft will do is demand Tomase be removed from the Pats beat and that the paper issue a retraction or some sort of apology. He doesn't want this to remain front and center for years; he wants to move on. Bringing a big fat lawsuit leaves it in the public eye for years to come and allows the opposition to continue to dig in your closets (look no further than the Roger Clemens debacle - all that stuff about his extra curricular marital activities is coming out because of discovery in the case he brought against his former trainer for defamation - he should have just walked away).

Everyone has skeletons in their closets, and I don't think we want anyone looking in the Pats organization's any more. An apology allows the Pats to save face, makes the Herald look bad, but allows everyone to move on without further damage. Now, if the Herald won't do it, that's something else.

:agree:

A lawyer who calls in to WEEI was just on and said pretty much the same thing. Roger Clemens and his attorneys are the village idiots. Bob Kraft and his are not. If the Herald fails to deal with the fallout from running this story in a satisfactory manner (and from their overall tabloid coverage of this team for that matter) Kraft has other avenues he can persue that will hurt them in the pocketbook - where they are already beyond feeling pinched. Sponsors and advertisers who are part of the Patriots family will be steered away from the Herald. Just like don't hold your breath for Patriots Friday on ESPN Boston radio if it still even exists come September. They face the double whammy of being under the ESPN umbrella and hosted by a Herald employee...

 

[Clonamery]

:agree:

A lawyer who calls in to WEEI was just on and said pretty much the same thing. Roger Clemens and his attorneys are the village idiots. Bob Kraft and his are not. If the Herald fails to deal with the fallout from running this story in a satisfactory manner (and from their overall tabloid coverage of this team for that matter) Kraft has other avenues he can persue that will hurt them in the pocketbook - where they are already beyond feeling pinched. Sponsors and advertisers who are part of the Patriots family will be steered away from the Herald. Just like don't hold your breath for Patriots Friday on ESPN Boston radio if it still even exists come September. They face the double whammy of being under the ESPN umbrella and hosted by a Herald employee...

ESPN has radio stations? Huh, more avenues to ignore.....

 

[castlelong1]

Though I am a lawyer, I don't know much about defamation, not my area of practice. What I do know, it doesn't sound like the Pats would have much of a case against Tomase or ESPN. I think they would have to prove that Tomase or ESPN lied, knew they lied or had reason to believe that they knew what they were saying was false, and lied with the intent of hurting the Pats. I can't see the Pats investing hundreds of thousands of dollars to pursue a lawsuit that has such little chance of success. Then again, maybe I am mistaken about their burden of proof.

Can someone please explain to me, and everyone else, what possible grounds the Pats have to bring suit, and what legal precendence would support there case?

I have spent hours upon hours debunking the knowably false statements of ESPN to normal citizens who thought the ESPN lies were true. I say knowingly because often while one "reporter" was saying one thing another "reporter" said the opposite.

I'll never get those hours back. I want to be compensated for trying to clean up their mess.

Now instead of a fan, pretend you are the business slurred.
And no, it can't be used on Fox or CBS. They differentiate news from entertainment.

 

[Phokus]

Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

If there's no truth to the Rams videotaping story, couldn't the Pats sue the Herald for libel (or force them to reveal their source and sue THEM for libel)?

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Re: Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

I'm a little fuzzy on my media law class I took in journalism school, but I'm pretty sure that the Herald simply saying "it was an accident" or "we had no ill intent, really, we promise" doesn't cover their rears legally as some have suggested.

Really it's up to the Krafts and what they want to do. My guess is they will not sue but they will ask for a retraction and for Tomase to be re-assigned. If the Herald's brass had any class at all, he would be re-assigned.

 

[Phokus]

Re: Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

I'm a little fuzzy on my media law class I took in journalism school, but I'm pretty sure that the Herald simply saying "it was an accident" or "we had no ill intent, really, we promise" doesn't cover their rears legally as some have suggested.

Really it's up to the Krafts and what they want to do. My guess is they will not sue but they will ask for a retraction and for Tomase to be re-assigned. If the Herald's brass had any class at all, he would be re-assigned.

Ok, but what about the Herald's source? I know there are laws protecting confidential sources, but if the source had knowingly given the herald false info, then they should be sued for damages.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Re: Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

Ok, but what about the Herald's source? I know there are laws protecting confidential sources, but if the source had knowingly given the herald false info, then they should be sued for damages.

Blaming a bad source would not be a defense for them. They have the option to run it or not. They chose to run it, it was false information and now we'll see what happens.

Ultimately the Herald is responsible for what they publish.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Pull Tomase's press credential

The Patriots should simply pull Tomase's press pass and ban him from Gillette.
Gillette Stadium is privately owned. Pull his press pass. Tomase is a liar and a fraud. Just as fans lose their access to games over bad behavior so should Tomase. I'm serious. Don't waste tome trying to win a lawsuit. Simply ban Tomase from Gillette. That would make NATIONAL news and send the media haters into a frenzy. Be awesome!!!!!!!!! :rocker:

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

Can they file a suit? Absolutely yes. Don't even need a lawyers just a couple pieces of paper and the filing fee.

Would they win? Maybe. Would need to prove the Herald knew that the story was false or were highly reckless. E.g. no source just totally made up; or their source was Kurt4Pres on the Rams fan board. Burden of proof would be on the Pats to prove it was false not on the Herald to prove it was true. Very difficult unless some one who works for the Herald goes Walsh on them.

Would it make sense to do so. Hell no. If Kraft files, it just prolongs this further, even a victory won't convince anybody who has already made their mind up.

And what damages would he receive if he won? The 10,000 folks who canceled season tickets over this. Wait that didn't happen. Fall off in sale of proshop b/c of this. Know any organized fan boycotts? Me neither. And what ever drop off occurred can be traced to not winning the SB. Canceled tv contracts? He will get a dollar.

Best thing is just to move one. There is a SB to win. And that needs to be the Pats focus.

 

[patchick]

Re: Can the Patriots Sue the Boston Herald?

Maybe. Would need to prove the Herald knew that the story was false or were highly reckless. E.g. no source just totally made up; or their source was Kurt4Pres on the Rams fan board. Burden of proof would be on the Pats to prove it was false not on the Herald to prove it was true.

Well put. Burden of proof would be on the Pats to prove not just that it was false, but that the Herald had reason to suspect it was false and chose to run it with reckless disregard for the truth.

Or they could just ask for a retraction and Tomase on the next train out of town, then go about their business. I vote for the latter.