Offense: Status quo from last year a problem?

[SavioKid]

Lots of talk about the Defensive side of the ball and rightfully so since our Offense was the 'record breaker / AFL' type throughout the regular season. But, with no major changes to challenge our starters, especially the OL which has weaknesses as obviously seen in the SB, is this a good thing for this year?

I'm particularly concerned about the OL such as a Matt Light who is an 'average' LT when you compare him against the upper echelon. Others are: an injury prone Neal who still has (not much though) some fundamental technique issues; and the rotation for our RT spot (neither one has claimed it really).

Funny, I do like them addressing our backup QB situation though since ...I won't say ANYTHING about the 'man' so I'll stop there...

Anyways thoughts?

 

[maverick4]

It will be a problem if McDaniels continues his inability to make adjustments or self scout his own offense.

 

[signbabybrady]

But, with no major changes to challenge our starters, especially the OL which has weaknesses as obviously seen in the SB, is this a good thing for this year?

You really think that Light and Neal would be better players just because rookie X is there to challenge?

They are veterans and will perform to peak abilities most days.

The offense will benifit from guys who were hurt in the past coming back like Thomas and Jackson.

The offense line is one of the best in the league and continuity is one of the reasons for this. And we will in all likelyhood have the same four guys start at LT, LG, C, and RG as we have since Mankins was drafted. Kazcur and O'callahan are both adequate RTs. I am tired of everyone thinking we have the worst oline because they had a very bad game on the biggest stage.

We have some of the best pulling guards in the league and with the amount we screen I wouldn't want any other guards outside of Hutch. Koppen is one of the best centers in the league. Light IMO is one of the best LT in the league...look around the league the dominant left tackle isnt as prominant as it once was even the way it was 2 seasons ago and Light is a very talented LT who deserves the Pro Bowl bids he has recieved.

one bad game does not make a man or an oline.

 

[richpats]

It will be a problem if it's status quo. We need to commit to the run.

 

[BelichickFan]

It will be a problem if McDaniels continues his inability to make adjustments or self scout his own offense.

It's always the Coordinator isn't it. Belichick wasn't shy about bringing Capers in on defense, he wouldn't have been shy about doing the same for the offense if he thought McDaniels needed it.

On the thread, I'm not worried at all about the offense except we need to get Moss back involved. In the playoffs he disappeared. Not sure if he was a big banged up but we need to throw the ball to him even when he's covered sometimes. There's little to worry about with the offense for me, though, as long as we pick up the blitzes well.

 

[BelichickFan]

It will be a problem if it's status quo. We need to commit to the run.

I think we'll run more with Morris and Maroney healthy together. Last year we lost Morris just as Maroney was coming back.

 

[miDeuce]

I don't really think the offense will be status quo. David Thomas should be back, the fourth receiver will be different - hopefully Chad Jackson will bring a new wrinkle, and having both Maroney and Sammy Morris for a full season should add a lot. I like our O-Line, they always have one or two games a year where they're not at their best, unfortunately last year it was in the Super Bowl. But for 90% of the time they are solid and that's about as good as you can do in the NFL.

Okay, so it's not a lot different but it's not the exact same and I think that's a good thing. Really looking forward to seeing Sammy Morris back.

 

[NEPatriot]

Pats O has to be improved and different in 08 season if pats wants to have some blown out games.

if O is exactly the same, 14 pt game is all we can see.

 

[RodThePat]

Pats O has to be improved and different in 08 season if pats wants to have some blown out games.

if O is exactly the same, 14 pt game is all we can see.

 

[tobias funke]

Pats O has to be improved and different in 08 season if pats wants to have some blown out games.

if O is exactly the same, 14 pt game is all we can see.

I see what you're saying, but it's not like every team can just be like OH PRESSURE THE QUARTERBACK WITH INCREDIBLE DEPTH ON THE LINE OF HALL OF FAME CALIBER PLAYERS.

If any team has a chance to do it consistently to us this season, it will be the Bills, IMO.

But to think our offense as it stands is so crappy that it would look like KC's for an entire season solely doing what it did last year, is ridiculous. Every team saw tape of the Patriots all season and couldn't beat them... why would that change because the Pats haven't played for a few months?

 

[PonyExpress]

Dave Thomas and C. Jackson will have more prominent roles. Morris will be back. Maroney will be much better after a healthy offseason getting bigger and stronger. Maroney will be utilized much more in the passing game. Brady will have another off season to develop with his receivers. This offense will resemble the 2006 Colt offense, more than the 2005 Colt offense. Some more balance, patience, not allowing Brady to take as much of a pounding as he did running the Philly/Baltimore/Pitt/NYG/SD/NYG gauntlet toward the end of 2007.

 

[SavioKid]

You really think that Light and Neal would be better players just because rookie X is there to challenge?

They are veterans and will perform to peak abilities most days.

The offense will benifit from guys who were hurt in the past coming back like Thomas and Jackson.

The offense line is one of the best in the league and continuity is one of the reasons for this. And we will in all likelyhood have the same four guys start at LT, LG, C, and RG as we have since Mankins was drafted. Kazcur and O'callahan are both adequate RTs. I am tired of everyone thinking we have the worst oline because they had a very bad game on the biggest stage.

We have some of the best pulling guards in the league and with the amount we screen I wouldn't want any other guards outside of Hutch. Koppen is one of the best centers in the league. Light IMO is one of the best LT in the league...look around the league the dominant left tackle isnt as prominant as it once was even the way it was 2 seasons ago and Light is a very talented LT who deserves the Pro Bowl bids he has recieved.

one bad game does not make a man or an oline.

O.k....

One, I never said you can only upgrade with rookies. I was even thinking of veteran free agents that could actually challenge for a starting spot. I never said that the OL is bad but a potential weak area since you can not come away from the SB and not think otherwise in the most important game of the season.

I think Mankins is a potential Hall of Fame Guard and Koppen is an All-pro no doubt, but to say Light is the best LT is debatable but I did put him in the upper echelon of LTs if you read it closely. I just said he was average when compared to the upper echelon like a McNeill from SD or a previous years Ogden of BAL. I agree that the LT is not what it used to be and Light has done very well against most of the elite pass rushers. I just questioned it because LT is the 'on an island' / roughest pass blocking position (QB blindspot) there is and weather it should be looked at. So, I'll agree with more emphasis that the Light is a solid LT that shouldn't need an upgrade yet.

However, to say Neal and Kazur (or O'Callaghan) are solid in the respect that those positions shouldn't be looked at or possibly upgraded is to be blinding homers. Look at Neal's injury history and technique issues (not as much at all like the past but he was a former wrestler instead of football). And no one (coaches or us) has really endorsed either RT as the man to stay there for the next 5 years+....

Continuity does go a long way no doubt for an OL, but to ignore these weaknesses might not be the corect thing for this year. However these issues (LG and RT) might be too small to have any negative affect in the short run since Sarnecchia is a great coach who will always improve every player.

 

[SavioKid]

Dave Thomas and C. Jackson will have more prominent roles. Morris will be back. Maroney will be much better after a healthy offseason getting bigger and stronger. Maroney will be utilized much more in the passing game. Brady will have another off season to develop with his receivers. This offense will resemble the 2006 Colt offense, more than the 2005 Colt offense. Some more balance, patience, not allowing Brady to take as much of a pounding as he did running the Philly/Baltimore/Pitt/NYG/SD/NYG gauntlet toward the end of 2007.

Good point about Morris and the running game taking a load of the passing game and hence, Brady not taking a pounding as much as last year....Hopefully! I almost forgot how Morris was out most of the year and will be a nice 'addition' to the Offense.

What's your thoughts on the OL?

 

[SavioKid]

I see what you're saying, but it's not like every team can just be like OH PRESSURE THE QUARTERBACK WITH INCREDIBLE DEPTH ON THE LINE OF HALL OF FAME CALIBER PLAYERS.

If any team has a chance to do it consistently to us this season, it will be the Bills, IMO.

But to think our offense as it stands is so crappy that it would look like KC's for an entire season solely doing what it did last year, is ridiculous. Every team saw tape of the Patriots all season and couldn't beat them... why would that change because the Pats haven't played for a few months?

All sarcasm aside, I & 99% of the knowledgeable fans here definitely don't think the Offense is crappy and will repeat close to what happened last year (or even improve in some areas with more continuity and health). But, the NYG were NOT a bunch of hall of famers (if that is what you were saying) on the DL and the SB did show how possibly out OL can be beat IF we stay with that same Offensive plan.

So, I just think, and others pointed out here too ( in a way) that mainly we just need to improve our Offensive play calling / blocking schemes / etc. (i.e. McDaniels should definitely be questioned) to remain a high-powered scoring machine. I hope everyone is right about our OL not needing improvements though at LG / RT in the short run.

Also, a big improvement might be getting a Morris for a full year with the running game and keep Defenses off-balance (& keep Maroney fresher).

 

[BradyManny]

Lots of talk about the Defensive side of the ball and rightfully so since our Offense was the 'record breaker / AFL' type throughout the regular season. But, with no major changes to challenge our starters, especially the OL which has weaknesses as obviously seen in the SB, is this a good thing for this year?

I'm particularly concerned about the OL such as a Matt Light who is an 'average' LT when you compare him against the upper echelon. Others are: an injury prone Neal who still has (not much though) some fundamental technique issues; and the rotation for our RT spot (neither one has claimed it really).

Funny, I do like them addressing our backup QB situation though since ...I won't say ANYTHING about the 'man' so I'll stop there...

Anyways thoughts?

Like the defensive side of the ball, I see us getting better. Most great offenses had years together in their prime, Brady and Moss are going into just their second season together.

Most notably, when the offensive scheme was put into motion last season starting in training camp, nobody - including BB, McD and Brady - had any idea just to what level Moss & Welker would be playing. Now they can revise the scheme to fit those two and spend an offseason working on that.

So the idea that this offense has been "figured out" by the Giants and other teams can implement that game plan - that's ridiculous.

Furthermore, Stallworth was a huge disappointment to me, and I think Chad Jackson will fill the role of #3 receiver much better, if he stays healthy and lives up to any of his potential. If not, than Gaffney is a suitable 3.

Also, we saw what a healthy Sammy Morris did for this team - it allowed the team to have much better balance in the offense, and hopefully that will carry on through next season, particularly with Maroney bringing his game to another level at the end of this past season.

 

[tobias funke]

All sarcasm aside, I & 99% of the knowledgeable fans here definitely don't think the Offense is crappy and will repeat close to what happened last year (or even improve in some areas with more continuity and health). But, the NYG were NOT a bunch of hall of famers (if that is what you were saying) on the DL and the SB did show how possibly out OL can be beat IF we stay with that same Offensive plan.

So, I just think, and others pointed out here too ( in a way) that mainly we just need to improve our Offensive play calling / blocking schemes / etc. (i.e. McDaniels should definitely be questioned) to remain a high-powered scoring machine. I hope everyone is right about our OL not needing improvements though at LG / RT in the short run.

Also, a big improvement might be getting a Morris for a full year with the running game and keep Defenses off-balance (& keep Maroney fresher).

I just think it stands to reason that, with the minds available at Gillette, they are obviously planning on improvements. Why on earth wouldn't they? It's their job.

The fact that they didn't go after any linemen in the draft and stuck with possibly developing a couple UDFAs says enough to me that they are plenty satisfied with the personnel.

 

[PonyExpress]

Good point about Morris and the running game taking a load of the passing game and hence, Brady not taking a pounding as much as last year....Hopefully! I almost forgot how Morris was out most of the year and will be a nice 'addition' to the Offense.

What's your thoughts on the OL?

Here are my feelings on the O-line: I believe Brady got a concussion on his very first snap of the SB. I think he had cobwebs for most of the game, and gutted it out, pulling himself together a bit in the 2nd half. I don't think he was processing info like he normally does. I think the performance of the whole offense and the O-line, reflected the fact that TB's brains were scrambled. Not being in the huddle or at the LOS, we have no idea how well he and his mates were communicating.

Obviously the team could never admit that, because then they would have to answer to the "mothers of America" why they put a concussed Qb back in the game.

The SB game reminded me alot of the loss to KC in '05 when JAllen crushed TB on his first pass attempt.

I think the O-line's struggles were an aberration. Kill the head and the body dies, as they say. The Giants basically won the SB on the Pats first offensive snap. If you want to blame MCDaniels for a playground call, and not playing it safe early to get a feel for the Giant pass rush, there's some merit in that.

But if teams think they are going to copy the "Giant blue print" to beat the Pats in '08, they are going to be very surprised. They had better take a hammer to Brady's helmet, because otherwise they will get wrecked.

I think the '08 team will be worse than the '07 squad early, but BETTER late in the year, as young players grow into the system, both on O and D. Opponents can't scheme against young players they have hardly seen before.

If I could target one thing that the Pats O has failed to do, that they should have done these past several years, it would be to incorporate Maroney more into the passing game against top tier opponents.

 

[BradyManny]

Here are my feelings on the O-line: I believe Brady got a concussion on his very first snap of the SB. I think he had cobwebs for most of the game, and gutted it out, pulling himself together a bit in the 2nd half. I don't think he was processing info like he normally does. I think the performance of the whole offense and the O-line, reflected the fact that TB's brains were scrambled. Not being in the huddle or at the LOS, we have no idea how well he and his mates were communicating.

Pete Sheppard of WEEI said that he heard from a reliable source within the Pats organization that Brady hurt his rib on the first play of the game. This would also explain Brady's early absence from the offseason program - he's recovering from not one, but two injuries.

I personally think Brady's decision making was fine throughout the game, and that only a few of his throws were off, either b/c of injury or the rush. If any one of the half dozen freakish things that happened on the final Giants drive didn't happen, Brady would've been a main reason the Pats had won.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Pats O has to be improved and different in 08 season if pats wants to have some blown out games.

if O is exactly the same, 14 pt game is all we can see.

Lets just summarize here:

NFL Record: 11 Welker completions tied most ever in Super bowl
NFL Record: 100 Brady completions all-time most ever in Super Bowl
NFL Record: 48 Brady attempts without an interception most ever
NFL Record: 92.86 Brady completion percentage best ever, playoffs and regular season with at least 20 attempts (Testaverde 91.30, 1993)
NFL Record: 16 straight Brady completions most ever in playoffs
NFL Record: 589 points on season most ever (1998 Vikings 556)
NFL Record: +315 point differential on season best ever (1942 Bears +292)
NFL Record: 50 Brady touchdowns on season most ever (Manning 49, 2004)
NFL Record: 23 Moss touchdown catches on season most ever (Rice 22, 1987)
NFL Record: +42 Brady TD/INT ratio best ever (Manning +39, 2004)
Franchise Record: 4,806 Brady passing yards on season most ever (Bledsoe 4,555, 1994)
Franchise Record: 112 Welker receptions on season most ever (Brown 101, 2001)
Franchise Record: 1,493 Moss receiving yards on season most ever (Morgan 1,491, 1986)
NFL Record: 71 touchdowns on season most ever (Dolphins 70, 1984) (Record ends at 75)
Franchise Record: 6,190 net yards gained on season most ever (5,965, 1978) (Record ends at 6,580)
Franchise Record: 366 first downs on season most ever (348, 1994) (Record ends at 393)
Franchise Record: 101 Welker receptions on season tied most ever (Brown, 2001) (Record ends at 112)
NFL Record: Wilson touchdown 21st player to score touchdown on season tied for most ever (Broncos 21 2000, Rams 21 1987) (Record ends at 21)
NFL Record: 67 Gostkowski extra point conversions most ever (Uwe von Schamann 66, 1984) (Record ends at 75)
Franchise Record: Welker and Moss 1,000 yards on season tied as most players with 1,000 yards on season (Morgan and Jackson, 1979)
NFL Record: 19 Brady-to-Moss TD passes on season most ever (Favre/Sharpe Packers 1994, Marino/Clayton 1984) (Record ends at 23)
Franchise Record: Brady 11 games with 3+ touchdown passes most for single player (Marino 10, 1984) (Record ends at 11 games)
Franchise Record: 19 Moss touchdowns overall most for single player (Martin 17, 1996) (Record ends at 23)
Franchise Record: 17 Moss touchdowns tied overall most for single player (Martin 17, 1996) (Record ends at 23)
NFL Record: AFC East clinch tied for earliest in NFL history (Eagles 2004, 49ers 1997, Bears 1985)
Franchise Record: 442 points on season, most in single season (441, 1980) (Record ends at 589)
Franchise Record: 13 Welker catches tied for most in non-overtime game (Branch 2002, Glenn 1999)
NFL Record: Moss 4 touchdown catches before half, tied for most (1983 Green STL, 1973 Warfield MIA, 1973 Jackson LAR, 1945 Hutson GB)
Franchise Record: 56 points tied for most in single game (1979)
Franchise Record: 54 touchdowns to date, most in franchise history (52, 1961 and 1980)
Franchise Record: Moss 4 touchdown catches, most in single game (Coates 3, 1995)
Franchise Record: Brady 183rd touchdown pass of Patriots career (Grogan 182) (Record ends at 197)
Franchise Record: Moss 13th touchdown catch of season, most in single season (Morgan 12, 1979) (Record ends at 23)
Franchise Record: 54 Gostkowski extra point conversions most ever (John Smith 51, 1980) (Record ends at 74)
NFL Record: Brady's 9th consecutive game with 3+ touchdown passes (Manning 8, 2004) (Record ends at 10 games)
Franchise Record: Brady 33 touchdowns to date, most single-season touchdown passes (Parilli 31, 1964) (Record ends at 50)
NFL Record: First team to win first 7 games by 17 points or more (1999 Rams, 6) (Record ends at 8 games)
Franchise Record: 6 Brady touchdown passes, most in game (Grogan 1979, Parilli 1967 and 1964)
Franchise Record: 42 first half points most in franchise history (41, 1978)
Franchise Record: Brady perfect rating first since at least 1970
NFL Record: Brady first with 3+ touchdowns in first 6 games (Young, 1998) (Record ends at 10 games)
NFL Record: Moss first with 100 yards in first 3 games with new team (Record ends at 4 games)

That is a partial list of the accomplishment of our offense last year. An offense many were calling the greatest offense of all time, and that undoubtedly was one of the top 10 ever. An offense that was unquestionably the most powerful offense in the NFL last year.

I am more than okay with status quo.

Guys get a grip. We lost ONE. Count them ONE. Game all season long. And to the extent last years team was the greatest of time it was on the defensive side of the ball not the offense.

Status quo is fine. I would love for us to win 18 games this season. As long as the one loss is during the regular season.

 

[Kontradiction]

So are the offense threads the "it" threads of the week? Last week it was defense, the week before it was the draft.