Gholston visits Jets

[PonyExpress]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...8-04-21_jets_in_rush_for_vernon_gholston.html

No law against tooting your own horn, I suppose.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Oddly after reading that piece I hope the JETS if not the Raiders bite. I'll pass. That assessment that he's a first rounder on tape, a mid first at the combine and a top ten when he takes his shirt off... Bill looks at the entire package, but in the final analysis he always goes back to the tape. He'll see uneven performances as a sign the player isn't self motivated. By his own admission he is tying his success to landing in the right system with good coaching. If he disappoints, guess who he'll blame - it won't be the guy in the mirror. Bill looks for players who could overcome not being so lucky - especially in the top ten picks in the first round since you're gonna have to pay 'em like they already succeeded.

 

[PonyExpress]

Mo,
While I'm not dismissing these negative hits on Gholston, I'm not sure we can take them at face value, considering they come from anonymous sources in the NYdailynews.

Gholston had more sacks over the past 2 seasons than any other Div I player.

Gholston dominated the best competition he faced, Michigan and Wisconsin, and was solid if not spectacular vs LSU. On the LSU game alone I would have rated him a mid to late 1st rdr, because his NFL caliber strength was obvious. For comparison, he made more of an impact vs LSU than Woodley did vs USC last season.

Gholston is only a junior. For comparison C. Long had 4 sacks as a junior (i understand that C. Long was playing glorified DT, not Leo end).

Gholston had 14 sacks despite what people describe as an inconsistent motor. C. Long had 14 with the greatest motor I have ever seen on a college player. (C. Long is unquestionably the #1 player on my Pats board).

I'm not really sure how to react to Gholston's lack of humility, as reflected in this article. Sometimes great talents aren't shy about their ability, although my preference would be for a more humble player.

The bottom line is that Gholston can get to the QB, is strong at the POA, is very young and still developing, has been very durable, is dedicated in the weight room, and shows up in big games vs good competition. Those are big positives, not easily dismissed.

 

[Kontradiction]

Gholston apparently wants to go to a team with a rich Super Bowl history.

 

[BradyManny]

I've definitely soured on Gholston of late. I'd rather have Groves in a trade down scenario. Don't get me wrong, if we draft Gholston, I'll find a way to get excited (for all the reasons Pony mentions above), but right now, I'm hoping somebody else ahead of us takes him.

 

[PatsDparty]

I read a piece about Gholston being a humble young man, who carries a Bible with him everywhere he goes. Being confident in your abilities doesn't take away from fact that every other piece I've seen on him has touted his character highly.

 

[drew4008]

Wow, more people need to read this article. Gholston is one c*cky SOB, sheesh. This definitely makes me think twice about him.

 

[makoute]

Wow, more people need to read this article. Gholston is one c*cky SOB, sheesh. This definitely makes me think twice about him.

Are you a Moss fan?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mo,
While I'm not dismissing these negative hits on Gholston, I'm not sure we can take them at face value, considering they come from anonymous sources in the NYdailynews.

Gholston had more sacks over the past 2 seasons than any other Div I player.

Gholston dominated the best competition he faced, Michigan and Wisconsin, and was solid if not spectacular vs LSU. On the LSU game alone I would have rated him a mid to late 1st rdr, because his NFL caliber strength was obvious. For comparison, he made more of an impact vs LSU than Woodley did vs USC last season.

Gholston is only a junior. For comparison C. Long had 4 sacks as a junior (i understand that C. Long was playing glorified DT, not Leo end).

Gholston had 14 sacks despite what people describe as an inconsistent motor. C. Long had 14 with the greatest motor I have ever seen on a college player. (C. Long is unquestionably the #1 player on my Pats board).

I'm not really sure how to react to Gholston's lack of humility, as reflected in this article. Sometimes great talents aren't shy about their ability, although my preference would be for a more humble player.

The bottom line is that Gholston can get to the QB, is strong at the POA, is very young and still developing, has been very durable, is dedicated in the weight room, and shows up in big games vs good competition. Those are big positives, not easily dismissed.

How's he gonna get to the QB from the bench. Where's he gonna most of his time here...this year. 'Cause for $40M+ and $18M guaranteed he's gotta start. Ditto Long, who Mayock says projects to Mike Vrabel which is great but the job isn't quite open yet. Or Ellis.

I just don't think you can draft a project at #7 because they take too much time for the money. Unless you think Vrabel should be the rotational player or move inside or you want AD back inside it makes no sense.

If you have to contort yourself to figure out how something might work, it likely isn't a value move in the first. The Giants beat us up with 4 DL who were superior to our 5 man OL. And the guy they added to their blitz package and used to spell the others down the stretch, what round did they get him in...3rd (74) in 2005. I'd like to see us invest more than late day 2 picks in a developmental LB or situational pass rusher, but not #7.

 

[dryheat44]

How's he gonna get to the QB from the bench. Where's he gonna most of his time here...this year. 'Cause for $40M+ and $18M guaranteed he's gotta start. .

Then whom are you advocating? Albert? Clady? With J Long off the board, I don't think there's a player in the draft who's going to start for us next season.

 

[makoute]

If he's good, he can certainly start. I think the Pats Defense played better last season when AD was inside. And if Gholston can get to the QB, then where in business.

 

[BradyManny]

Then whom are you advocating? Albert? Clady? With J Long off the board, I don't think there's a player in the draft who's going to start for us next season.

RG/RT is the only spot where I can see a starter coming in and supplanting either Neal/Kaczur, depending heavily on Neal's health of course.

Other than that, I agree. That's why if it comes between trading down and getting Groves versus taking Gholston at 7, its a no-brainer for me. Groves not only seems like a more natural conversion to OLB, but if you're paying a guy to be a situational pass-rush beast, then that big difference between the contracts at 7 and 15 is an even bigger difference.

 

[JoePats]

You can never have too many pass-rushers. I agree w/ dryheat there's no way if we pick at 7 that there's a guy that's going to come in with no legit questions.

C Long, probably off the board, athletic upside
Gholston, weight-room player, motor?
Ellis, system question, athletic profile thread
Albert, guard at 7, college guard to tackle projection
Dorsey, positional fit, certainly gone anyway
Ryan, is a QB
Clady, low wonderlic for Pats OL based on previous draft successes
Rivers, is he a 4-3 OLB
Harvey, is he a 4-3 DE

I'd like either Long or Gholston. Again, you can never have too many guys who can rush the quarterback. Most of us underestimated the loss of Colvin anyway. Regarding C Long, his intelligence, savvy, and motor make up for, at least to me, any potential athletic upside questoin. For Gholston, the guy is a specimen who outperformed the best conversion guys in the combine measurables. Further, I think motor and focus is something that can be taught. And if the Pats do draft him, I gotta believe they think that he can be taught those qualities.

As for the cap, look, if we had no draft picks, we'd still be very good (though not the best team) next year. Just because you draft a guy in the top 10 doesn't mean he has to come in and play 80% of the snaps. It does mean that pretty soon he will but not in year 1 and not on a top team.

Any comparisons of top ten picks playing time to whoever the Pats pick to me is completely moot, since most if not all of those teams in the top ten have significant needs. The Pats do too but fewer and nothing that can't be taken care of later on.

 

[PonyExpress]

RG/RT is the only spot where I can see a starter coming in and supplanting either Neal/Kaczur, depending heavily on Neal's health of course.

Other than that, I agree. That's why if it comes between trading down and getting Groves versus taking Gholston at 7, its a no-brainer for me. Groves not only seems like a more natural conversion to OLB, but if you're paying a guy to be a situational pass-rush beast, then that big difference between the contracts at 7 and 15 is an even bigger difference.

Personally I like Gholston as an NFL PRusher more than Groves (I like Groves too). Groves has better edge speed, but I think Gholston's edge speed is good enough, plus he has the brute leg strength necessary to avoid getting washed out vs NFL quality LTs as he bends the edge.

The edge rusher the Pats draft will be facing these LTs:

J Long 2x
J Peters 2x
DFerguson 2x

in the division.

Potential playoff matchups:
MMcNeil
JThomas
TUgoh (one of these things is not like the others. IMO ugoh is sub-par as a pass defender, a guard masquerading as a tackle due to measurables. But he is a very good run blocker)

It takes great speed and power to beat LTs of that quality (other than Ugoh).

I also think that C. Long could start at OLB for the pats from day 1 and play well.

 

[BradyManny]

Personally I like Gholston as an NFL PRusher more than Groves (I like Groves too). Groves has better edge speed, but I think Gholston's edge speed is good enough, plus he has the brute leg strength necessary to avoid getting washed out vs NFL quality LTs as he bends the edge.

The edge rusher the Pats draft will be facing these LTs:

J Long 2x
J Peters 2x
DFerguson 2x

in the division.

Potential playoff matchups:
MMcNeil
JThomas
TUgoh (one of these things is not like the others. IMO ugoh is sub-par as a pass defender, a guard masquerading as a tackle due to measurables. But he is a very good run blocker)

It takes great speed and power to beat LTs of that quality (other than Ugoh).

I also think that C. Long could start at OLB for the pats from day 1 and play well.

I'm not going to disagree with anything you said above - I think its a solid breakdown, but at 7, and at the price we'll be paying, we'd want a guy who can start and play 3 downs from day 1. And at this point, I guess I don't see it happening on the defensive side of the ball (maybe C. Long drops...)

 

[SHOWTIME15]

this is nothing but a smokescreen to get us to flip picks with KC. Jets will draft McFadden unless the raiders get him first.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I do sense a smokescreen. Then again the Jets are probably thinking if McFadden doesn't drop to #6, we'd better do our homework just in case. Heck I drafted Gholston for the Jets in the forum mock draft. Pace and Gholston on the edges gives the Jets a way to pressure Brady with just 4 or 5 guys.

 

[Deus Irae]

Then whom are you advocating? Albert? Clady? With J Long off the board, I don't think there's a player in the draft who's going to start for us next season.

Clady starts at RG week one (OK, at least by some point early in the season) if he's worth his salt and is coachable. A corner from rounds 1-3 might well win the #2 spot and start along with Hobbs. Those two positions, along with one LB spot, seem to be the most likely to be 'won' by a draft pick.

Having said that, let me just repeat my lament from during the season.... man I wish Oher had declared for the draft this season.

 

[jczxohn1]

How's he gonna get to the QB from the bench. Where's he gonna most of his time here...this year. 'Cause for $40M+ and $18M guaranteed he's gotta start. Ditto Long, who Mayock says projects to Mike Vrabel which is great but the job isn't quite open yet. Or Ellis.

I just don't think you can draft a project at #7 because they take too much time for the money. Unless you think Vrabel should be the rotational player or move inside or you want AD back inside it makes no sense.

If you have to contort yourself to figure out how something might work, it likely isn't a value move in the first. The Giants beat us up with 4 DL who were superior to our 5 man OL. And the guy they added to their blitz package and used to spell the others down the stretch, what round did they get him in...3rd (74) in 2005. I'd like to see us invest more than late day 2 picks in a developmental LB or situational pass rusher, but not #7.

Mo, this is the type of thinking that has had us drafting 2nd day LB prospects who wind being little more than ST'ers after 3 yrs on the squad. I have been preaching about drafting LB prospects from a better gene pool for 2 yrs now--someone who can actually start in '09. If you have to pay big money while they sit for a year, or, rotate them in and suffer a little while they learn, then so be it. Too many teams play a version of the 3-4 nowadays to think a high-value vet is consistently going to come looking for a job yr-in and yr-out.