Why Chris Long???

[iapatsfan]

Why in the world do so many people on this board want Chris Long? Of all of the projected top picks, he is the absolute worse pick for us. Where is he going to play in a 3-4? Not mobile or fast enough for LB, and not stout enough for D-Line. The Pats D needs to get faster. I don't know why everyone doesn't see this. If Chris Long is there at 7, I would rather the Pats take Keith Rivers. If Chris Long is taken by a 3-4 team, he will be a flop along the lines of Courtney Brown and Jonathan Sullivan. He was a great college player with a famous father. He will never be an NFL stud!

 

[mcsully]

Why in the world do so many people on this board want Chris Long? Of all of the projected top picks, he is the absolute worse pick for us. Where is he going to play in a 3-4? Not mobile or fast enough for LB, and not stout enough for D-Line. The Pats D needs to get faster. I don't know why everyone doesn't see this. If Chris Long is there at 7, I would rather the Pats take Keith Rivers. If Chris Long is taken by a 3-4 team, he will be a flop along the lines of Courtney Brown and Jonathan Sullivan. He was a great college player with a famous father. He will never be an NFL stud!

His forty wasn't great but his cone and short distance sprints were fast.. He has a non stop motor that loves football and studies the game.. His ceiling might not be the highest, but his floor is high.. He's solid!

 

[iapatsfan]

His forty wasn't great but his cone and short distance sprints were fast.. He has a non stop motor that loves football and studies the game.. His ceiling might not be the highest, but his floor is high.. He's solid!

Where does he play? Don't we have enough slow linebackers??? I could care less about his "non-stop motor".

 

[SamBamsFan]

Where does he play? Don't we have enough slow linebackers??? I could care less about his "non-stop motor".

2.7 20 yd vs 2.65, 1.53 10 yd. vs 1.56, 10'4 long jump vs 10'7", 4.21 shuttle vs 4.38, 7.02 cone vs ????. Hardly slow. Oh, and he has 31 pounds on Rivers (who can't seem to make any plays behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[iapatsfan]

2.7 20 yd vs 2.65, 1.53 10 yd. vs 1.56, 10'4 long jump vs 10'7", 4.21 shuttle vs 4.38, 7.02 cone vs ????. Hardly slow. Oh, and he has 31 pounds on Rivers (who can't seem to make any plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Entire career playing LB vs. Never played a down at LB. Nothing like another Dan Klecko experiment at pick #7.

 

[SamBamsFan]

Entire career playing LB vs. Never played a down at LB. Nothing like another Dan Klecko experiment at pick #7.

Yeah, send me a letter when Rivers makes a significant play will you?

 

[JoePats]

Entire career playing LB vs. Never played a down at LB. Nothing like another Dan Klecko experiment at pick #7.

Please tell me you're not comparing Chris Long to Dan Klecko. Go watch the agility drills from the combine, Chris Long compared to the others. They're probably on nfl.com somewhere. Long is just as quick if not quicker, and he's more balanced than everyone else. It was quite a performance. In fact there's a thread about it on here from about 2 months ago.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Where does he play? Don't we have enough slow linebackers??? I could care less about his "non-stop motor".

Really? Because intelligence and a non-stop motor seem to be the things that separate guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, and AD - all who were a little too big and slow to be dominant LB's until they hit our system, from the Chad Browns and Monty Beisels of the world...this kid is smart, runs hard on every play, is agile, and is a big dude. One might recall a guy named McGinest who was a little too big and slow to be a prototypical OLB in a (albeit hybrid for much of his time) 3-4 but still managed to make the big plays that helped us win at least 2 AFCCGs as my memory serves. Again, a guy with brains, an all day motor, and the right body for it. Where you don't see this is beyond me. I may not have the "BradyToMoss" on DRC man-crush on him; I acknowledge his potential to be the next Klecko too, but at least coming from Groh's system, IF we decide he's the guy for us (which we should have ample info to consider), I'm excited for what his potential as a swing OLB, Pash Rusher, Cover Guy (dare I even hope AD-esque OLB/ILB alternater) could be...

 

[JoePats]

Really? Because intelligence and a non-stop motor seem to be the things that separate guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, and AD - all who were a little too big and slow to be dominant LB's until they hit our system, from the Chad Browns and Monty Beisels of the world...this kid is smart, runs hard on every play, is agile, and is a big dude. One might recall a guy named McGinest who was a little too big and slow to be a prototypical OLB in a (albeit hybrid for much of his time) 3-4 but still managed to make the big plays that helped us win at least 2 AFCCGs as my memory serves. Again, a guy with brains, an all day motor, and the right body for it. Where you don't see this is beyond me. I may not have the "BradyToMoss" on DRC man-crush on him; I acknowledge his potential to be the next Klecko too, but at least coming from Groh's system, IF we decide he's the guy for us (which we should have ample info to consider), I'm excited for what his potential as a swing OLB, Pash Rusher, Cover Guy (dare I even hope AD-esque OLB/ILB alternater) could be...

Good post...Besides, if it were all measurables, then drafting would be easy.

 

[iapatsfan]

Really? Because intelligence and a non-stop motor seem to be the things that separate guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, and AD - all who were a little too big and slow to be dominant LB's until they hit our system, from the Chad Browns and Monty Beisels of the world...this kid is smart, runs hard on every play, is agile, and is a big dude. One might recall a guy named McGinest who was a little too big and slow to be a prototypical OLB in a (albeit hybrid for much of his time) 3-4 but still managed to make the big plays that helped us win at least 2 AFCCGs as my memory serves. Again, a guy with brains, an all day motor, and the right body for it. Where you don't see this is beyond me. I may not have the "BradyToMoss" on DRC man-crush on him; I acknowledge his potential to be the next Klecko too, but at least coming from Groh's system, IF we decide he's the guy for us (which we should have ample info to consider), I'm excited for what his potential as a swing OLB, Pash Rusher, Cover Guy (dare I even hope AD-esque OLB/ILB alternater) could be...

Be honest. Chris Long covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 DE, nothing more.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Be honest. Chris Long covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 DE, nothing more.

Be honest, Willie McGiniest covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 DE, nothing more.

Be honest, Mike Vrabel covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 Pass Rushing Specialist DE, nothing more.

Be honest, Adalius Thomas covering WRs and Slot Receivers is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB/DE/S. He is a DT, nothing more.

Should I go on, 'cause it's actually kinda fun! :singing:

 

[iapatsfan]

The best and, in my opinion, most accurate comparison is Kyle Vandenbosh. Would you trade the #7 pick for Kyle Vandenbosh? Where would he play on the Pats? Chris Long is an overachiever who is not a good fit for the Pats.

 

[RussFrancis]

The draft is filled with uncertainties. Having said that, there are 2 things Im absolutely certain of. 1- Chris Long will NEVER fall to 7. 2- NE will NEVER trade up to overpay for any of these guys. I was doubting that 2nd point for a while, but at this stage, I couldnt feel any more certain.

For my money, I hope Chris Long goes to the Rams, a 4-3 team that we'll rarely ever face. Because the kid is more of a natural Dend than anything, and Id love to see him just getting after the passer. NOT turn and cover. Sure, he could do it. Just not what he should do. He's got the frame of a 285lber. He has really no business playing LB.

 

[iapatsfan]

Be honest, Willie McGiniest covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 DE, nothing more.

Be honest, Mike Vrabel covering RBs and TEs is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB. He is a 4-3 Pass Rushing Specialist DE, nothing more.

Be honest, Adalius Thomas covering WRs and Slot Receivers is a joke, and anybody who has seen him play knows this. This guy is not an NFL LB/DE/S. He is a DT, nothing more.

Should I go on, 'cause it's actually kinda fun! :singing:

All 3 of these guys played without their hand on the ground before coming to the Pats. Adalius at Baltimore, Vrabel at Pitt, Willie at USC. Like I said before, why would we take a guy at 7 to play LB when he has never played LB in his career?

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

The best and, in my opinion, most accurate comparison is Kyle Vandenbosh. Would you trade the #7 pick for Kyle Vandenbosh? Where would he play on the Pats? Chris Long is an overachiever who is not a good fit for the Pats.

How do you know either of these things? Why, specifically, is Kyle Vandenbosh (sp?) the most apt comparison in your opinion? BB values intelligence, a love for the game (and the schemes that go with it), and versatility (hard to argue that a kid with this agility and size isn't versatile no matter who you compare him to). More importantly, how the heck can you say he is or isn't a good fit? I'm confident our coach and FO will make that decision, but I don't see anything about him that suggests he isn't based on the 2 posts you've shrugged off where I cited more than a couple examples of other players IN OUR OWN SYSTEM who have been able to do the same thing. Again, I'm not saying this kid is an HoF lock by any means, but to say he's "not a fit" is just foolish, and to dismiss his potential is shortsighted to put it mildly. I jumped to a similar conclusion about the Jared Allen trade rumors mistakenly because of his size and my [dumb] misconceptions about him...after reading a bit more and studying the player further, I realized that I still thought the price would be too high (for Allen) but the motor and immeasurables were hard to argue with in a system that has made HYBRID OLB a whole new NFL player Genre.

 

[spacecrime]

Entire career playing LB vs. Never played a down at LB. Nothing like another Dan Klecko experiment at pick #7.

Or Bruschi or Vrabel or Colvin.

That is what is wrong with your idea. You think it is a bad thing to make a DE into a LB. BB and every other 3-4 coach looks for DEs to make into LBs.

 

[spacecrime]

Like I said before, why would we take a guy at 7 to play LB when he has never played LB in his career?

Because that's where NFL 3-4 LBs come from.

College DEs.

 

[iapatsfan]

How do you know either of these things? Why, specifically, is Kyle Vandenbosh (sp?) the most apt comparison in your opinion? BB values intelligence, a love for the game (and the schemes that go with it), and versatility (hard to argue that a kid with this agility and size isn't versatile no matter who you compare him to). More importantly, how the heck can you say he is or isn't a good fit? I'm confident our coach and FO will make that decision, but I don't see anything about him that suggests he isn't based on the 2 posts you've shrugged off where I cited more than a couple examples of other players IN OUR OWN SYSTEM who have been able to do the same thing. Again, I'm not saying this kid is an HoF lock by any means, but to say he's "not a fit" is just foolish, and to dismiss his potential is shortsighted to put it mildly. I jumped to a similar conclusion about the Jared Allen trade rumors mistakenly because of his size and my [dumb] misconceptions about him...after reading a bit more and studying the player further, I realized that I still thought the price would be too high (for Allen) but the motor and immeasurables were hard to argue with in a system that has made HYBRID OLB a whole new NFL player Genre.

You're saying he has versatility becasue he has agility and size??? I already responded to your mention of players IN OUR OWN SYSTEM. He has only played DE - never LB. Where is the "versatility"?

 

[iapatsfan]

What do you guys not get about this? All of the pats players played LB at some point in college or the NFL before coming to NE. Colvin-Chicago, Tedy-AZ, Adalius-Baltimore, Vrabel-Pitt, Willie-USC. Chris Long admitted he has never played LB his football playing career.

Also, 4-3 DEs are converted to 3-4 LBs. Not 3-4 DEs like Chris Long. Look it up. 4-3 DEs are quicker more mobile players that are more suited to the role of 3-4 LB. Chris Long is NOT a LB>

 

[Seneschal2]

Where is he going to play in a 3-4?

Wherever BB wants him. Think Willie McGinest.

Not mobile or fast enough for LB, and not stout enough for D-Line.

Long's head coach, Al Groh, publicly stated that Long can succeed as a DE/OLB. And considering that Groh was the Pats LB coach sent to work out McGinest prior to drafting him, I think I trust his opinion.

In addition, Long may have the best hands and technique in the draft. Combined with a relentless motor, these are the qualities he'll be using to defeat NFL OTs. Running a fast 40 won't get you to the QB unless you also have a bag of tricks.

The Pats D needs to get faster. I don't know why everyone doesn't see this.

I see a D that needs to impact the games more. Speed alone won't get it done.