A couple points about Clady...

[PonyExpress]

It is difficult to imagine Belichick drafting an offensive linemen with a Wonderlic under 20. BTW, what were the Wonderlics for the other OT's?

I just checked some OT's

Williams 32
Otah 28
Baker (USC) 27
Long 26
Cherilus (BC) 25
Clady 13

BTW, where did you find the 2008 Wonderlik scores? I can't seem to find them for this year or last year. Do you have last year's also, or know where they are listed?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You seem to be suggesting that the ability to protect a QB's blind side has some connection to a LT's Wonderlik score. I see no such connection, and I just gave you the evidence. J. Brown, J Peters, C Samuels, L. Jones and K. Barnes all had Wonderliks below 20.

I had Clady as my #1 LT candidate prior to reading Mike Reiss saying the Pats had no interest in him - maybe I bought the smokescreen. I will say wonderlic scores may be an indicator of study habits/thinking process, watching Matt Light and the boys anytime someone does a spot that has them talking shows me lads who come across as smarter than a BOR.

The question we might want to ask isn't what BB wants, but what Dante wants? Does Clady take to hard coaching (that better be a resounding yes or he's not Scarnecchia material)? What is Clady's reaction time to stunts? Does he see/process/react quickly enough mentally to get that athleticism into place? What are his study/work habits? I'll take that "reported" 13 if the scouting report has him eating his meals in front of the Fresno State game tape and leaving chicken grease stains on his DL tendencies notes.

A partial answer comes from NFL Draft Scout's profile (you cheap folks who don't have a membership can find the same notes at NFL.com and USA Today's profiles): "Intelligent player with good vision, but he has had a few mental lapses on the field that have produced costly penalties...Must show better work habits in the weight room and needs to be monitored...Gets caught up in the battle in the trenches, trying to face up and stone the defender, rather than slide back and protect the pocket...Has quick feet, but when he loses on a counter move and the edge rusher gets free, he is slow to recover.

Compares To: CHRIS SAMUELS-Washington...Clady has very good ease of movement coming out of his stance to get into defender quickly. He has the long reach and good hand placement to lock on and sustain. He is an effective trap blocker and does a nice job of either grabbing or stunning with his hands. He needs to add lower-body bulk and strength, as he might struggle some with in-line drive blocks at the next level. With his versatility, he might be a better fit on the right side until his frame develops. At 320, he looks a little light in his pants. With another 20 pounds and no lost quickness, some team could have another Jason Peters (Buffalo) on their hands, not a Samuels clone.

During his last two seasons with the Broncos, Clady registered 224 knockdowns, including 32 touchdown-resulting blocks and 13 downfield blocks, compiling an 84.0% grade for blocking consistency...Penalized 10 times during his last 26 games."

I like the kid's talent, but reading this I find myself pondering his "fit" in the Patriots' system Scar runs. Perhaps an even better question to ask, how will Clady's work habits improve after he's been handed $10mil in guaranteed money? (I don't have a clue and won't get an inkling until after NE takes it's turn Saturday.)

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm sure that the Pats have looked at a lot of film on Clady. Certainly he has the physical attributes and athleticism that you want at the LT position. The question is, does a low wonderlic score have any bearing on how a player will process blocking assignments? There's no definite correlation that can be proved without extensive study. As someone pointed out, some of the premier LTs in the game today scored low on the Wonderlic.

As to the argument, how many of those LTs have Superbowls? That's completely bogus. Seeing as only the Patriots, Colts, Steelers, and now Giants have won Superbowls in the past 6 years or so, where would those other tackles get the opportunity to win rings? So that means all the other 28 starting tackles in the NFL are crap? Worse of all, you assume that the LT must have a ring to be any good. So do you also assume that Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino? That just makes no sense at all.

 

[PonyExpress]

I had no idea Reiss made that comment. I'd definitely be interested in reading that, I just missed it.

The unknowns with Clady I'm sure make him a risk in the eyes of many teams. An unrecruited player, at a lower competition level, a junior, a below average Wonderlik... GMs are no doubt thinking, How much safer to draft J. Long, where the athletic package may not be the same, but the maturity, intelligence, work ethic and pedigree appear to be ideal!

They are looking for reasons not to take what appears to be a "risk", just as Parcells was probably looking for reasons not to take Ryan at #1. Risk at the top of the draft makes everyone queasy.

At the same time those unknowns are not necessarily negatives with Clady. We've seen Roos become a dominant player. The majority of quality LTs are far from geniuses.

Also, as Gosselin pointed out recently, Clady transformed himself from an unrecruited nobody into a potential top 10 pick in 3 years. On the field he often plays with an edge. He must have some work ethic, ambition and inner drive to have accomplished so much and perform with that attitude.

The PFW draft chart lists Clady as having been targeted for "intelligence issues", but not for anything character related. So while NFLdraftscout indicates he may need some supervision, whatever issues exist do not seem to have tarnished his character with NFL teams, if PFW's chart can be believed (I realize many here don't put much stock in PFW).

For all these reasons, Clady is as intriguing a prospect as any in the draft. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut, I guess. Personally, I have to decided to give Clady the thumbs up, come hell or high water. I've done the same thing with QB Ryan. We'll just have to see how it all plays out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I had no idea Reiss made that comment. I'd definitely be interested in reading that, I just missed it.

For all these reasons, Clady is as intriguing a prospect as any in the draft. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut, I guess. Personally, I have to decided to give Clady the thumbs up, come hell or high water. I've done the same thing with QB Ryan. We'll just have to see how it all plays out.

I think it was a couple-three Ask Reiss mailbags back - check his blog for mail links.

Gut check is fine by me, the kid looked good when I watched him in the ECU game, I was surprised to read NE had no interest when Reiss posted that tidbit. I'll give him a thumbs up if NE drafts him!

 

[PonyExpress]

Here is the quote from Reiss re: Clady for others interested in the topic:

Nothing would surprise me... although I don't think Clady will have a high enough rating on the Patriots' board to go No. 7. While it was only one opinion, I did ask one personnel evaluator who has studied Clady a lot closer than I have and was told he wouldn't be a good fit in New England. Of course, the only opinions that ultimately matter are Scott Pioli's and Bill Belichick's, and I don't know what they're thinking regarding Clady. Overall, the reason I say nothing will surprise me is that I've tried to narrow things down in the past and been burned. In 2005, I said "We don't know who the Patriots will select in the first round, but we can assume -- based on their past history and the way they view the position -- that it won't be a guard." Then they took Logan Mankins. Since that point, I've taken the nothing-will-surprise-me approach.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/askreiss/03_18_08/?page=3

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Here is the quote from Reiss re: Clady for others interested in the topic:



http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/askreiss/03_18_08/?page=3

My mind wandered again, value vs. interest - oops! :bricks:

Thanks for going back for the quote.

 

[patchick]

My "research" into O-linemen which I finally got around to this season, suggests that the 3 most important athletic indicators for a LT prospect are 40 time, VJ and arm length.

Pony, I totally respect your research but I think we're asking different questions. You're asking which indicators predict NFL-level success, and I'm asking which indicators predict BB/SP drafting a player to fit their system. For the latter, pluses for Clady are his great agility and the fact that the Patriots seem happy to look outside major conferences. Negatives are his very low Wonderlic...and the fact that the word "nasty" doesn't appear in any of his profiles.

 

[RussFrancis]

I'm sure that the Pats have looked at a lot of film on Clady. Certainly he has the physical attributes and athleticism that you want at the LT position. The question is, does a low wonderlic score have any bearing on how a player will process blocking assignments? There's no definite correlation that can be proved without extensive study. As someone pointed out, some of the premier LTs in the game today scored low on the Wonderlic.

As to the argument, how many of those LTs have Superbowls? That's completely bogus. Seeing as only the Patriots, Colts, Steelers, and now Giants have won Superbowls in the past 6 years or so, where would those other tackles get the opportunity to win rings? So that means all the other 28 starting tackles in the NFL are crap? Worse of all, you assume that the LT must have a ring to be any good. So do you also assume that Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino? That just makes no sense at all.

Was it completely bogus? Tell us how you really feel, why dont you? There were a few thoughts involved in what I originally had to say on this subject. The 'Superbowl' thought was a part of it. The main point was that do we really want to measure our players against those on the Redskins, Bills, Saints or Bengals right now? Do we? The other kid plays for Jacksonville, so if he's a stud, good for them. But do we really care if any of those teams' players score at a level of below average intelligence? Or do we hope that they continute doing what theyre doing? Personally, I appreciate the fact that the scouting/drafting/selecting standards within this organization are higher than other teams. It obviously contributes to the team's success. Do I think a guy needs a 30 on a wonderlic to be a successful player in the league? Not really. Do I think Dilfer was a better Q than Marino? Not really. Would I rather have a guy like Jon Ogden who scored a 35 on the wonderlic @ LT protecting Brady's blindside than someone who scored a 13? Safe to say, we all probably would.

None of this is all that relevant because I really dont see NE drafting Clady. Just dont see it happening. But Im not going to think the man cant play football. If we draft him though, I'll be fully on board.

 

[BradyManny]

Anybody have thoughts on Chris Williams or Duane Brown?

DaBruinz started a thread recently, consensus seemed that Williams wasn't athletic enough for our system. But the guy truly just didn't give up sacks.

I don't know much about Brown other than all the scouting reports cite him as very athletic and a good fit for zone blocking schemes.

 

[RussFrancis]

Anybody have thoughts on Chris Williams or Duane Brown?

DaBruinz started a thread recently, consensus seemed that Williams wasn't athletic enough for our system. But the guy truly just didn't give up sacks.

I don't know much about Brown other than all the scouting reports cite him as very athletic and a good fit for zone blocking schemes.

I dont know much about either of those guys, but I think part of the attraction with the Branden Albert pick is that he's a lineman that offers some versatility. And there isnt a consensus on what needs to be addressed more, RT or RG. Albert seems to be a potential starter at either spot. So, there's a possibility that he could replace either Neal or Kaczur, in which case Kaczur would slide inside to guard. If either of those guys could offer up the same potential flexibility, Id expect theyre also on the radar.

5 days and all of this speculation will be in the rear view.

 

[Seneschal2]

All large bodies and pass rushers can be classified as value picks at #7. Therefore, Clady and other highly ranked OTs would qualify.

His test score is only one of many considerations, but surely it's unfair to rule him out completely if (in BB's opinion), he plays the position better than most.

The MAJOR consideration for me would be his work ethic. Dante's tactics won't succeed IF (based on unreliable reports), Clady relys on his athleticism to succeed, but lacks the internal fire required to play for the Pats. This is not my opinion, as I really don't know.

The Pats scouts and coaches have been out there trying to get the REAL scoop on each prospect. And with some prospects, you win some and lose some. But at #7 -- there can be no uncertainties about work ethic, coachability, etc. -- all questions will have been answered. The Pats know more about the intangible qualities than the fans. And I think it's these invisible qualities that will be the deciding factor for Clady to the Pats.

 

[PonyExpress]

Pony, I totally respect your research but I think we're asking different questions. You're asking which indicators predict NFL-level success, and I'm asking which indicators predict BB/SP drafting a player to fit their system. For the latter, pluses for Clady are his great agility and the fact that the Patriots seem happy to look outside major conferences. Negatives are his very low Wonderlic...and the fact that the word "nasty" doesn't appear in any of his profiles.

Very true. A word of caution: My "research" always involves a liberal dose of beer, potato chips and background TV noise, so it's hardly reliable. I'm more inclined to believe your conclusions than my own, frankly.

 

[BradyManny]

I dont know much about either of those guys, but I think part of the attraction with the Branden Albert pick is that he's a lineman that offers some versatility. And there isnt a consensus on what needs to be addressed more, RT or RG. Albert seems to be a potential starter at either spot. So, there's a possibility that he could replace either Neal or Kaczur, in which case Kaczur would slide inside to guard. If either of those guys could offer up the same potential flexibility, Id expect theyre also on the radar.

5 days and all of this speculation will be in the rear view.

Great point re: Albert and the RG/RT situation.

 

[mike100915]

I think if Ryan Clady is selected by the Patriots at #7, I would be pissed. Yes, he could be a valubale assest, but their O-Line was only a problem for 1 game. They could find a player in the later rounds to play RT, that isn't as good as Clady, but not that far apart from him. I really want to go defense in round 1, only exception would be McFadden.

Hoping and praying that Chris Long falls!

 

[mgteich]

I just googled NFL 2008 Wonderlic scores

BTW, where did you find the 2008 Wonderlik scores? I can't seem to find them for this year or last year. Do you have last year's also, or know where they are listed?

 

[mgteich]

In retrospect Klemm was a poor pick. His Wonderlic was within acceptable bounds.

So you think that the Pats require their OT prospects to be no worse than slightly below average on the Wonderlik, and A. Klemm failed at LT due to issues related to his Wonderlik, and not his health.

It is not a set rule that I have discovered based on two data points. I believe that the patriots and Belichick strongly, strongly prefer offense lineman who can read and understand the playbook. It really is that simple. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

I don't see any reason to think the Pats have a set rule for LT prospects relating to the Wonderlik. The only 2 LT prospects they have drafted are Light and Klemm, and I see no discernable pattern there. There are plenty of obvious reasons why Light succeeded at LT and Klemm failed that have nothing to with the Wonderlik. Character and health come to mind.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think if Ryan Clady is selected by the Patriots at #7, I would be pissed. Yes, he could be a valubale assest, but their O-Line was only a problem for 1 game. They could find a player in the later rounds to play RT, that isn't as good as Clady, but not that far apart from him. I really want to go defense in round 1, only exception would be McFadden.

Hoping and praying that Chris Long falls!

The Patriots draft for value. If they draft Clady, it will because they think he's got exactly that.

 

[mike100915]

The Patriots draft for value. If they draft Clady, it will because they think he's got exactly that.

No crap. I just don't want him. He reminds me too much of Adrian Klemm. I highly doubt they would take him anyways. He's too soft, an you can get much better VALUE with a few other players at #7.

Thanks for telling me the Patriots Philosophy like nobody else knows that. It's the biggest cliche we hear around here when the Patriots draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

No crap. I just don't want him. He reminds me too much of Adrian Klemm. I highly doubt they would take him anyways. He's too soft, an you can get much better VALUE with a few other players at #7.

Thanks for telling me the Patriots Philosophy like nobody else knows that. It's the biggest cliche we hear around here when the Patriots draft.

You're welcome, and thanks for telling me what Clady's value is. Before, I was going to rely on Belioli, but you've set me, and all of us here I'm sure, to rights on this one.