A couple points about Clady...

[PonyExpress]

Clady's 7.07 in the 3-cone drill is the fastest for a 300 lb NFL prospect, on either side of the ball, dating back to 1999 (unless I missed someone). The same unusual coordination, flexibility and foot speed are evident watching Clady play football. His arm length of 36 3/4 is extremely rare. His base strength (310 lbs and 31'' VJ) is very competitive with current quality NFL LTs.

The knocks on Clady seem to be
a) level of competition
b) passion for the game
c) upper body strength

Level of competition is a concern, considering how rare it is for non-BCS LT prospects to flourish in the NFL (Michael Roos for the Titans being a recent exception). Still, a guy like jason peters with almost no college OT experience and a 9 Wonderlik score, is now hailed as the NFL prototype at the position after being developed gradually.

As for Clady's passion for the game, I can't answer that, other than to say he seems to play with as much of a mean streak as any of the other elite OT prospects. This concern about Clady was hinted at after a few team interviews, so we have no idea if it is real or a smokescreen.

Clady's supposed lack of upper body strength was raised after he did "only" 24reps on the bench and strained a pec muscle at the combine. Taking into account that Clady has the longest arms in the draft, that Richard Seymour only did 18 reps, and Mankins only 21, this does not seem like a major issue Woicik couldn't correct, given a willing student.

While my top 2 players are still M Ryan and C. Long, from a purely physical standpoint the most unique "athletes" among the consensus top 10 prospects seem to be Gholston, McFadden and Clady.

The Pats have not had an issue drafting O-lineman in rd 1 who played at non BCS schools (Mankins); they have drafted trench players in rd 1 with reputations for "lacking passion for the game" (Warren); And they have drafted trench players in rd 1 with "substandard" upper body strength (Seymour). So the complaints about Clady do not preclude the Pats from pulling the trigger. If the Pats do pull the trigger on Clady, we can conclude that any of his flaws, if they exist, are correctable; therefore I would be very happy with the selection.

It's interesting that the Pats have not brought Clady or B.Albert in for a visit, to my knowledge; other than McFadden's visit, every other one seems to have involved defense. Most of the league seems to be under the impression that the Pats are going D at #7; And it seems KC wants to trade down, possibly with Baltimore at #8 in exchange for Ryan, because KC feels that #8 is a better slot to spend on either Clady or Albert.

It wouldn't be out of character for the Pats to sandbag a bit, and conceal interest in a player with such obvious athletic upside as Clady.

 

[drew4008]

His intelligence is an issue too. I'm a believer in having intelligent linemen... it's a heady position.

 

[PonyExpress]

His intelligence is an issue too. I'm a believer in having intelligent linemen... it's a heady position.

Clady scored a 13 on the Wonderlik. IQ may be more of a factor for interior linemen, especially centers who have to make line calls. J. Peters had a 9 Wonderlik score and is now considered the "prototype" by many NFL scouts. I don't think the Wonderlik is that big of an issue for LT, which seems to require an athlete more than anything else.

 

[patchick]

Clady's 7.07 in the 3-cone drill is the fastest for a 300 lb NFL prospect, on either side of the ball, dating back to 1999 (unless I missed someone).

It's worth noting that was a pro-day score, not a combine score. Even so, Clady's athleticism is mighty impressive. Shuttle, cone and vertical are the numbers I look for in Pats linemen. Some numbers to ponder...
Clady 6'6" 309 / 31 4.73 7.07
...and the last 3 o-linemen the Pats drafted in the first 3 rounds:
Mankins 6'4" 307 / 31.5 4.45 7.54
Kaczur 6'5" 319 / 31.5 4.76 7.69
Light 6'5" 311/ ? 4.49 7.30

That's serious agility for big men.

BUT: Mankins, Kaczur and Light all shared another exceptional measurable -- Wonderlics of 29 or above.

 

[mgteich]

It is difficult to imagine Belichick drafting an offensive linemen with a Wonderlic under 20. BTW, what were the Wonderlics for the other OT's?

I just checked some OT's

Williams 32
Otah 28
Baker (USC) 27
Long 26
Cherilus (BC) 25
Clady 13

 

[PonyExpress]

It's worth noting that was a pro-day score, not a combine score. Even so, Clady's athleticism is mighty impressive. Shuttle, cone and vertical are the numbers I look for in Pats linemen. Some numbers to ponder...
Clady 6'6" 309 / 31 4.73 7.07
...and the last 3 o-linemen the Pats drafted in the first 3 rounds:
Mankins 6'4" 307 / 31.5 4.45 7.54
Kaczur 6'5" 319 / 31.5 4.76 7.69
Light 6'5" 311/ ? 4.49 7.30

That's serious agility for big men.

BUT: Mankins, Kaczur and Light all shared another exceptional measurable -- Wonderlics of 29 or above.

I haven't noticed the same disparity between combine and proday agility drill scores as between combine and proday 40 times. The agility drill numbers seem to be consistent.

My "research" into O-linemen which I finally got around to this season, suggests that the 3 most important athletic indicators for a LT prospect are 40 time, VJ and arm length. But I was too lazy and busy to "research" systematically, so I can't swear by my conclusions. The 40 time seems to indicate basic agility/foot speed for an O-lineman and supercedes agility scores (Originally, this was really my only athletic concern with Clady, because he ran a 5.2 at 309 lbs, which is not very good. But his remarkable 3-cone and on field tap dancing overcame my concerns about the 40 time). The VJ seems an indication of base strength and the ability to hold up vs the bull rush, and also bend at the knees and maintain leverage. And arm length, the ability to lock out and maintain the initiative in a one on one battle.

The prospects should also be 6'4'' at a miminum and 300+ lbs.

While the Pats may emphasize the Wonderlik, the Wonderlik itself does not seem to be very important for identifying quality LTs prospects. For example:

C. Samuels: 12
J. Peters: 9
J. Brown: 12
K. Barnes: 16
L. Jones: 18

If the Pats are restricting themselves to LT prospects who score 25 or higher on the Wonderlik, they would be eliminating most of the premier LTs in the NFL drafted over the past few seasons.

 

[mgteich]

There are many players who the pats have passed up, and will continue to pass up, because of low Wonderlic scores. The conclusion shouldn't be that such players can't succeed. They just won't succeed as patriots. There are many reasons that the patriots might eliminate players (such as various character issues) that don't necessarily mean that the player won't succeed.

I haven't noticed the same disparity between combine and proday agility drill scores as between combine and proday 40 times. The agility drill numbers seem to be consistent.

My "research" into O-linemen which I finally got around to this season, suggests that the 3 most important athletic indicators for a LT prospect are 40 time, VJ and arm length. But I was too lazy and busy to "research" systematically, so I can't swear by my conclusions. The 40 time seems to indicate basic agility/foot speed for an O-lineman and supercedes agility scores. The VJ is obviously an indication of base strength and the ability to hold up vs the bull rush, and also bend at the knees and maintain leverage. And arm length, the ability to lock out and maintain the initiative in a one on one battle.

The prospects should also be 6'4'' at a miminum and 300+ lbs.

While the Pats may emphasize the Wonderlik, the Wonderlik itself does not seem to be very important for identifying quality LTs prospects. For example:

C. Samuels: 12
J. Peters: 9
J. Brown: 12
K. Barnes: 16
L. Jones: 18

If the Pats are restricting themselves to LT prospects who score 25 or higher on the Wonderlik, they would be eliminating most of the premier LTs in the NFL drafted over the past few seasons.

 

[RussFrancis]

With all due respect, none of those LTs cited above have rings. And what seperates NE from many other teams in the league is that they just dont settle. Good enough to most teams is just not good enough in NE. And Im thankful for that. I dont think theyre about to bring in the prospect with the absolute worst wonderlic. But we'll soon find out for sure.

 

[PonyExpress]

There are many players who the pats have passed up, and will continue to pass up, because of low Wonderlic scores. The conclusion shouldn't be that such players can't succeed. They just won't succeed as patriots. There are many reasons that the patriots might eliminate players (such as various character issues) that don't necessarily mean that the player won't succeed.

C. Samuels, J, Brown or J Peters could definitely play for our team and excel. Wilfork scored a 10 on the Wonderlik. I don't believe the Pats are Wonderlik snobs.

 

[RussFrancis]

C. Samuels, J, Brown or J Peters could definitely play for our team and excel. Wilfork scored a 10 on the Wonderlik. I don't believe the Pats are Wonderlik snobs.

I think we'd all agree that Vince is a pretty unique guy. Nasty, durable, high character 350lbers are tough to find. But at best, the most complcated thing Vince has to think about is whether or not he's going to eat a 3rd stack of pancakes. He's not protecting Tom Brady's blindside. Slight difference.

 

[My2Cents]

Clady scored a 13 on the Wonderlik. IQ may be more of a factor for interior linemen, especially centers who have to make line calls. J. Peters had a 9 Wonderlik score and is now considered the "prototype" by many NFL scouts. I don't think the Wonderlik is that big of an issue for LT, which seems to require an athlete more than anything else.

No offense intended, seriously, But, considering the facts, I think that maybe Carolina, Chicago or Philly might be the safest place for Clady. Not the Pats.

 

[PonyExpress]

I think we'd all agree that Vince is a pretty unique guy. Nasty, durable, high character 350lbers are tough to find. But at best, the most complcated thing Vince has to think about is whether or not he's going to eat a 3rd stack of pancakes. He's not protecting Tom Brady's blindside. Slight difference.

You seem to be suggesting that the ability to protect a QB's blind side has some connection to a LT's Wonderlik score. I see no such connection, and I just gave you the evidence. J. Brown, J Peters, C Samuels, L. Jones and K. Barnes all had Wonderliks below 20.

 

[PonyExpress]

No offense intended, seriously, But, considering the facts, I think that maybe Carolina, Chicago or Philly might be the safest place for Clady. Not the Pats.

What "facts" are you referring to? If you give them, maybe I'll agree with you.

 

[RussFrancis]

You seem to be suggesting that the ability to protect a QB's blind side has some connection to a LT's Wonderlik score. I see no such connection, and I just gave you the evidence. J. Brown, J Peters, C Samuels, L. Jones and K. Barnes all had Wonderliks below 20.

And I just explained that none of those guys have played for championship clubs, so really, what's the point?

 

[PonyExpress]

And I just explained that none of those guys have played for championship clubs, so really, what's the point?

Have you considered having your own Wonderlik checked?

 

[mgteich]

Why is hard to understand why Belichick chooses OL's with high Wonderlic's? No, the patriots do not have the same requirements/preferences for NT's.

C. Samuels, J, Brown or J Peters could definitely play for our team and excel. Wilfork scored a 10 on the Wonderlik. I don't believe the Pats are Wonderlik snobs.

 

[PonyExpress]

Why is hard to understand why Belichick chooses OL's with high Wonderlic's? No, the patriots do not have the same requirements/preferences for NT's.

You are really hanging your hat on the assumption the Pats don't consider LT prospects with low Wonderliks. Yet the very first draft pick of the BB era, Adrian Klemm, was projected to play LT and scored a 19.

 

[mgteich]

1) Klemm was a mistake.
2) The average on the Wonderlic is 20. 19 is very close to average. 13 is DTD.

You are really hanging your hat on the assumption the Pats don't consider LT prospects with low Wonderliks. Yet the very first draft pick of the BB era, Adrian Klemm, was projected to play LT and scored a 19.

 

[RussFrancis]

Have you considered having your own Wonderlik checked?

When someone is about to guarantee me $20 million in earnings, I'll be all over that.

 

[PonyExpress]

1) Klemm was a mistake.
2) The average on the Wonderlic is 20. 19 is very close to average. 13 is DTD.

So you think that the Pats require their OT prospects to be no worse than slightly below average on the Wonderlik, and A. Klemm failed at LT due to issues related to his Wonderlik, and not his health.

I don't see any reason to think the Pats have a set rule for LT prospects relating to the Wonderlik. The only 2 LT prospects they have drafted are Light and Klemm, and I see no discernable pattern there. There are plenty of obvious reasons why Light succeeded at LT and Klemm failed that have nothing to with the Wonderlik. Character and health come to mind.