The Greatest Threat To The Patriots Season

[mgteich]

What is most likely to keep us from the AFC Championsip Game?

NOT DRAFTING A TOP LINEBACKER? NAAAH!
We have Vrabel, Thomas and Woods outside. Woods is as good as Banta-Cain was.
We have Bruschi, Thomas and Alexander and will re-sign Seau or another vet.
We'll get more help, but not getting it isn't critical. Besides, rookie linebackers take time to develop.

NOT DRAFTING A TOP CORNER? NAAAH?
We can draft corners in second, third or even the fourth round.
We have Hobbs, Bryant, and Richardson with Webster and Sanders fighting for time. We'll get help in the draft, but it doesn't need to be early. I would secure another VETERAN like Shepherd or Law, but a top draftee isn't critical.

NOT PROTECTING BRADY BETTER? YUPPP!!!!
We didn't think a guard was a top need when we drafted Mankins. We were wrong!!! Having a stud left guard, who hasn't played one snap at tackle in the regular season, was well worth a first rounder.

Is gettin Brady better protection on the right side worth a first rounder, a #7? Would that be reaching? The real question is whether we have the need and who the best players are to meet the need. The players must come from the draft. The need, if any, is on the right side.

Personally, I am NOT a fan of Neal. I think that Albert would be a major upgrade and would make Kaycur or O'Callahan better. However, if the problem is really at RT, I wouldn't draft Albert unless he is ready to start and be a probowl potential RT (I think not). If the problem is at RT, then draft Otah or another RT. The pros is not where we train guards to play tackle. The reverse happens all the time. College tackles can indeed become pro guards rather easily.

Clady at #7 or #8 may be too much too pass up.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I agree .. but when I posted about this several months ago I got slammed and ridiculed for saying it.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=78209&highlight=brady

Originally Posted by F.B.N.
If you're counting sacks then you are missing the big picture. Brady got the snot kicked out of him the last 1/3 of the season ... he'll be missing starts soon if that keeps up. Brady's production fell way off in December because he was injured from getting knocked down all the time.

I dont know what you are watching. Brady got hit less than almost any QB in the NFL this year. This is the perfect case of if he gets hit 3 times in a game everyone is up in arms that he is 'getting knocked around' without realizing that all the other QBs out there are getting hit 10,15, 20 times.

 

[PATSNUTme]

What is most likely to keep us from the AFC Championsip Game?

NOT DRAFTING A TOP LINEBACKER? NAAAH!
We have Vrabel, Thomas and Woods outside. Woods is as good as Banta-Cain was.
We have Bruschi, Thomas and Alexander and will re-sign Seau or another vet.
We'll get more help, but not getting it isn't critical. Besides, rookie linebackers take time to develop.

NOT DRAFTING A TOP CORNER? NAAAH?
We can draft corners in second, third or even the fourth round.
We have Hobbs, Bryant, and Richardson with Webster and Sanders fighting for time. We'll get help in the draft, but it doesn't need to be early. I would secure another VETERAN like Shepherd or Law, but a top draftee isn't critical.

NOT PROTECTING BRADY BETTER? YUPPP!!!!
We didn't think a guard was a top need when we drafted Mankins. We were wrong!!! Having a stud left guard, who hasn't played one snap at tackle in the regular season, was well worth a first rounder.

Is gettin Brady better protection on the right side worth a first rounder, a #7? Would that be reaching? The real question is whether we have the need and who the best players are to meet the need. The players must come from the draft. The need, if any, is on the right side.

Personally, I am NOT a fan of Neal. I think that Albert would be a major upgrade and would make Kaycur or O'Callahan better. However, if the problem is really at RT, I wouldn't draft Albert unless he is ready to start and be a probowl potential RT (I think not). If the problem is at RT, then draft Otah or another RT. The pros is not where we train guards to play tackle. The reverse happens all the time. College tackles can indeed become pro guards rather easily.

Clady at #7 or #8 may be too much too pass up.

You are right. But I'm not convinced that Clady or Otah or Williams are the guys. But if the Patriots draft anyone at #7 then I will have to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope my doubts are doubtful.

 

[SamBamsFan]

I actually agree with the thought ( though didn't you start this thread last week? http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=80985). I think if you look at value in relations to the Pats needs- then you have to look at the talent available on the OL in the draft this year. If not at 7, certainly by 62/ 69. Of course, I was the one last year that recommended Grubbs/ Staley(many rotten veggies were tossed my way) .

 

[VJCPatriot]

What is most likely to keep us from the AFC Championsip Game?

NOT DRAFTING A TOP LINEBACKER? NAAAH!
We have Vrabel, Thomas and Woods outside. Woods is as good as Banta-Cain was.
We have Bruschi, Thomas and Alexander and will re-sign Seau or another vet.
We'll get more help, but not getting it isn't critical. Besides, rookie linebackers take time to develop.

NOT DRAFTING A TOP CORNER? NAAAH?
We can draft corners in second, third or even the fourth round.
We have Hobbs, Bryant, and Richardson with Webster and Sanders fighting for time. We'll get help in the draft, but it doesn't need to be early. I would secure another VETERAN like Shepherd or Law, but a top draftee isn't critical.

NOT PROTECTING BRADY BETTER? YUPPP!!!!
We didn't think a guard was a top need when we drafted Mankins. We were wrong!!! Having a stud left guard, who hasn't played one snap at tackle in the regular season, was well worth a first rounder.

Is gettin Brady better protection on the right side worth a first rounder, a #7? Would that be reaching? The real question is whether we have the need and who the best players are to meet the need. The players must come from the draft. The need, if any, is on the right side.

Personally, I am NOT a fan of Neal. I think that Albert would be a major upgrade and would make Kaycur or O'Callahan better. However, if the problem is really at RT, I wouldn't draft Albert unless he is ready to start and be a probowl potential RT (I think not). If the problem is at RT, then draft Otah or another RT. The pros is not where we train guards to play tackle. The reverse happens all the time. College tackles can indeed become pro guards rather easily.

Clady at #7 or #8 may be too much too pass up.

Unfortunately Mankins got manhandled in the Superbowl. I really have no idea why, he was solid during the regular season. I'm thinking the Pats need a T more than a guard. Kaczur is meh. Pretty much, I agree. I wouldn't cry if the Pats went with a top OT at #7. Although I think they can trade down to the early teens and still get a guy like Otah. If Clady is head and shoulders above Otah and is comparable to a guy like Joe Thomas of the Browns, I think he'd be worth it at #7.

 

[BelichickFan]

I would never be upset with an OT. However I kind of like Ellis too. He could help give guys a breather, be a real backup for Wilfork (Vince getting jurt scares the crap out of me) and Ellis could play a lot on 2nd/3rd and short/long downs.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm all for drafting a tackle with the pick. It's a rarity for this team to be drafting this high, and it's a year with a couple of potential top notch pass protecting left tackles, an increasingly rare type of player. That being said, let's not go drafting for the O-line under false pretenses:


1.) Light is one of the best in the game at LT right now. He's not an elite type of LT, but there aren't many of them around right now. He's the kind of guy you always see at the top of the "The best of the rest" lists.

2.) Mankins is probably the best LG in the game, despite that ridiculous gas piping of the Super Bowl.

3.) Koppen is more than up to the task at center.

4.) Neal is arguably this team's best run blocker and, I think inarguably, its best pulling lineman.

5.) Kaczur has done a solid, though not spectacular, job at RT.

The line was awful during the Super Bowl. Significantly, given the OP's discussion about Neal, the line didn't collapse until Neal went down with an injury. However, until then, it had helped get the team to 18-0 and move the ball in the Super Bowl. People really need to stop letting 3/4 of one game dictate their way of thinking.

 

[ALP]

where to begin???

lets see, first a question...choose one game last year in which ur view that we need to protect brady better is clearly shown...

u chose the superbowl as ur example, so not lets move on

in the superbowl, neal was hurt, there was a backup at RG for much of the game....

our other guard had his worst game all season (all his career as well)

which is why our LT suffered

our RT did usual

add it all up, and u get a bad DAY from the O line which lasted a WHOLE SEASON

the circumstances just all went in favor of the giants, it was one of those murphys laws things

i would take a whole season to evaluate the Offensive line rather then just one game, and our O line is fine, just fine

they had a bad day

they dont call it the fluke bowl for nothing

but in that amazing completion where manning was almost sacked and tyree caught it with his head

say we had a young, fast LB going after manning.....and getting the sack

or say we had a young, fast, CB who intercepted the ball instead of drop it

then we win

case closed

 

[ALP]

Unfortunately Mankins got manhandled in the Superbowl. I really have no idea why, he was solid during the regular season. I'm thinking the Pats need a T more than a guard. Kaczur is meh. Pretty much, I agree. I wouldn't cry if the Pats went with a top OT at #7. Although I think they can trade down to the early teens and still get a guy like Otah. If Clady is head and shoulders above Otah and is comparable to a guy like Joe Thomas of the Browns, I think he'd be worth it at #7.

nobody is joe thomas....they say jake long isnt even close to joe thomas...

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

I'm with you - I think a gassed D has helped us lose the past 2 years - sure you can say the D performed to expectations and held teams to low points, but when it mattered, they didn't do what they used to which was make the big play, get the big t/o etc. I'm not disappointed with them, as ALP said, it was pretty darn flukey on both sides of the ball, but to me, our offense is spectacular and only getting better this year, but our D needs an infusion of some kind...younger vets (we didn't get many yet) or draft picks, and since we've done pretty well with late 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders under Dante's tutelage, I think we ought to (if the value is there) upgrade the D as much as possible with our earlier picks. But I'm still of the opinion that if we can trade down for more picks, we should because I think our prototypical "value" guys who produce and don't break the salary cap are going to be more readily available in rnds 2 and 3.

where to begin???

lets see, first a question...choose one game last year in which ur view that we need to protect brady better is clearly shown...

u chose the superbowl as ur example, so not lets move on

in the superbowl, neal was hurt, there was a backup at RG for much of the game....

our other guard had his worst game all season (all his career as well)

which is why our LT suffered

our RT did usual

add it all up, and u get a bad DAY from the O line which lasted a WHOLE SEASON

the circumstances just all went in favor of the giants, it was one of those murphys laws things

i would take a whole season to evaluate the Offensive line rather then just one game, and our O line is fine, just fine

they had a bad day

they dont call it the fluke bowl for nothing

but in that amazing completion where manning was almost sacked and tyree caught it with his head

say we had a young, fast LB going after manning.....and getting the sack

or say we had a young, fast, CB who intercepted the ball instead of drop it

then we win

case closed

 

[BritPat]

If we're going to draft an O-lineman, then I have to say I'm all for it being Branden Albert, whether it be at #7, or lower after seeing the way people have gone goo goo about him. Could we play him at RT for a while, or RG maybe? Or does he really look more a stud LG/LT in the making? I've seen a few video's of him, not many, but a few.

And if so, can we slide Light over to RT in 2009 with him coming in at LT?

 

[VJCPatriot]

If we're going to draft an O-lineman, then I have to say I'm all for it being Branden Albert, whether it be at #7, or lower after seeing the way people have gone goo goo about him. Could we play him at RT for a while, or RG maybe? Or does he really look more a stud LG/LT in the making? I've seen a few video's of him, not many, but a few.

And if so, can we slide Light over to RT in 2009 with him coming in at LT?

Well Group-Think is not the best way to come to an evaluation. Albert might be the best Guard available in this draft, but his combine numbers weren't even as good as Mankins who we selected at #32 overall. Mankins has been very solid for us, except for the Superbowl, and well worth the pick. But we got him at 32. There's a world of difference in value between drafting a guard at 32 vs at 7. Albert at #7 does not represent VALUE to me, a term that BB heavily emphasized in his pre-draft press conference.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I wouldn't be against drafting an ol. I think we can protect Brady better by running a more balanced offense. The offense was running more smoothly when we were mixing the run and pass. We lost our minds starting in that Philly game and decided to become Air Coryell East. It took a while to catch up to us. But, it did. In the AFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl.

I'm confident we will pick the right player. And, won't be in a panic regardless of what we do. We don't know the complete scouting reports on these kids. Very presumptious of us to think we know more than the best front office in football.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

It may depend upon Neal's health. He basically spilt time fairly evenly with Hochstein, I'd bet if you were counting snaps, and while Neal is solid when healthy, Hochstein is a revolving door.

I don't know what to think of Mankins and Kaczur being awful in the SB. I'm guessing at least one was playing hurt since neither was never close to that bad in the reg season.

Neal is probably versatile enough to back up both guard spots and perhaps even RT in a pinch, so I have no problem with drafting a top T who can start right away, sliding Kaczur over to G, and using Neal as the main backup (Hochstein's role).

 

[mgteich]

OK, so we don't have an adequate backup RT. Also, is Neal 100%. Will he be? For how many games?

where to begin???

lets see, first a question...choose one game last year in which ur view that we need to protect brady better is clearly shown...

u chose the superbowl as ur example, so not lets move on

in the superbowl, neal was hurt, there was a backup at RG for much of the game....

our other guard had his worst game all season (all his career as well)

which is why our LT suffered

our RT did usual

add it all up, and u get a bad DAY from the O line which lasted a WHOLE SEASON

the circumstances just all went in favor of the giants, it was one of those murphys laws things

i would take a whole season to evaluate the Offensive line rather then just one game, and our O line is fine, just fine

they had a bad day

they dont call it the fluke bowl for nothing

but in that amazing completion where manning was almost sacked and tyree caught it with his head

say we had a young, fast LB going after manning.....and getting the sack

or say we had a young, fast, CB who intercepted the ball instead of drop it

then we win

case closed

 

[mgteich]

Neal the wrestler can be a LG? Who says? I suppose he can he is good enough to be the Game Day backup at both guard spots, but he can't back up at center, so it doesn't matter.

It may depend upon Neal's health. He basically spilt time fairly evenly with Hochstein, I'd bet if you were counting snaps, and while Neal is solid when healthy, Hochstein is a revolving door.

I don't know what to think of Mankins and Kaczur being awful in the SB. I'm guessing at least one was playing hurt since neither was never close to that bad in the reg season.

Neal is probably versatile enough to back up both guard spots and perhaps even RT in a pinch, so I have no problem with drafting a top T who can start right away, sliding Kaczur over to G, and using Neal as the main backup (Hochstein's role).

 

[Water Boy]

Unfortunately Mankins got manhandled in the Superbowl. I really have no idea why, he was solid during the regular season.

The O-line had a terrific season, but played terrible in the Super Bowl. A lot of credit goes to the Giants Front 7. I think there has been a lot of over-reaction about the offensive line as a major need in the draft. Can we upgrade? Sure, but spending a 7trh round pick on any offensive linemen other that Jake Long would be a reach in my opinion.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm all for drafting a tackle with the pick. It's a rarity for this team to be drafting this high, and it's a year with a couple of potential top notch pass protecting left tackles, an increasingly rare type of player. That being said, let's not go drafting for the O-line under false pretenses:


1.) Light is one of the best in the game at LT right now. He's not an elite type of LT, but there aren't many of them around right now. He's the kind of guy you always see at the top of the "The best of the rest" lists.

2.) Mankins is probably the best LG in the game, despite that ridiculous gas piping of the Super Bowl.

3.) Koppen is more than up to the task at center.

4.) Neal is arguably this team's best run blocker and, I think inarguably, its best pulling lineman.

5.) Kaczur has done a solid, though not spectacular, job at RT.

The line was awful during the Super Bowl. Significantly, given the OP's discussion about Neal, the line didn't collapse until Neal went down with an injury. However, until then, it had helped get the team to 18-0 and move the ball in the Super Bowl. People really need to stop letting 3/4 of one game dictate their way of thinking.

Maybe you missed the Pats-Gints regular season game, but Brady was seriously pressured there as well. That's why in addition to the O-line's debacle (at least they were consistently bad against the Giants) I'd add the OL coaching staff's (Dante) inadequate SB prep to the D's again last game pathetic last stand as some of the myriad reasons we pulled the great choke.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Guys just remember, all we needed was a MEASLY 18 pts and we would have had a perfect season.
Brady is and will be the FRANCHISE as long as he is here. We can outscore anyone if we give him TIME.
Here is the reason I think we take Albert over Clady:athleticsm and versitility. We dont need our guy to be all pro, we dont care about that. He only has to do his job and STAY HEALTHY. Nothing makes a OL better than continuity. Albert is just a JR, he can get bigger and better. We dont NEED polish from him, he can come in and learn at LG and we can move Mankins to RT. We immediately improve 2 positions at once, our backups are deeper, and from the LG position Albert can learn beside Light what it takes (good and bad) to take over the LT position.
Given the choice, I would rather have a all pro LG with potential to play LT than take a guy who is limited (not versitile enough to play both positions)if he isnt a great T.

 

[mgteich]

Please indicate Albert's experience at LG and why you think he could be an all-pro on the left side of the line. And why do you think Mankins would succeed at RT. Not of this makes any sense at all to me. If we need a RT, let's draft Otah.

Guys just remember, all we needed was a MEASLY 18 pts and we would have had a perfect season.
Brady is and will be the FRANCHISE as long as he is here. We can outscore anyone if we give him TIME.
Here is the reason I think we take Albert over Clady:athleticsm and versitility. We dont need our guy to be all pro, we dont care about that. He only has to do his job and STAY HEALTHY. Nothing makes a OL better than continuity. Albert is just a JR, he can get bigger and better. We dont NEED polish from him, he can come in and learn at LG and we can move Mankins to RT. We immediately improve 2 positions at once, our backups are deeper, and from the LG position Albert can learn beside Light what it takes (good and bad) to take over the LT position.
Given the choice, I would rather have a all pro LG with potential to play LT than take a guy who is limited (not versitile enough to play both positions)if he isnt a great T.