Sedrick Ellis: an athletic profile

[dryheat44]

Re: Substituting Dorsey for Ellis

We need defensive linemen to control two gaps. I'm not telling anybody anything they don't know. Quickness and agility are secondary to functional strength, technique, tenacity, and football IQ.

I think Dorsey's the best player in the draft. I think Ellis will also be a very good player. You can look at the comparables all you want, but at the end of the day, they're not rated among the top 8 players in the draft because they have brilliant forensic skills or drive a cool car. They can play the game, and I am fine projecting them to 3-4 DE.

Also, sincere thanks to Pony and Pisa for running the numbers. It brings a fresh angle to the debate.

 

[RussFrancis]

The problem I would have with either Ellis or Dorsey playing END in our scheme is that they dont have the LENGTH to get those long arms up in passing lanes and bat down passes. That's part of what has made Seymour so valuable as an end in the 3-4. He's 6'6. Warren is 6'5. Dorsey isnt even 6'2 and I know Ellis is barely 6'. No doubt theyre strong enough to play the position. But you lose some value when a guy doesnt have the height or length to regularly disrupt a QB's throwing lanes.

 

[dryheat44]

The problem I would have with either Ellis or Dorsey playing END in our scheme is that they dont have the LENGTH to get those long arms up in passing lanes and bat down passes. That's part of what has made Seymour so valuable as an end in the 3-4. He's 6'6. Warren is 6'5. Dorsey isnt even 6'2 and I know Ellis is barely 6'. No doubt theyre strong enough to play the position. But you lose some value when a guy doesnt have the height or length to regularly disrupt a QB's throwing lanes.

That really is an excellent point that doesn't get brought up much.

 

[captain stone]

That really is an excellent point that doesn't get brought up much.

Then it needs to be brought-up again: Dorsey and - especially - Ellis are horrible fits for this defense. They are not even close to being tall enough to play DE, and are not stout enough at the POA to play NT. Besides, we already have 4 DLmen on a 3-man line in the prime of their careers. This is the #7 overall effin pick of the entire draft. He should be contributing heavily, if not starting, on Opening Day. That will not happen on the DL.

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: Substituting Dorsey for Ellis

We need defensive linemen to control two gaps. I'm not telling anybody anything they don't know. Quickness and agility are secondary to functional strength, technique, tenacity, and football IQ.

Tecnique tenacity and football IQ combined with freakish athleticism usually produce a great NFL player. Technique without raw athletic talent yields a marginal NFL player, most of the time. Obviously there are exceptions, but I donlt want to bet my life on an exception at #7. I don't trust my video scouting ability that much. Obviously other people here are better at scouting TV games than I am, and I admit that. But a player with some good college performances can deceive scouts, because he's not playing against NFL competition. Kevin Williams ran a 4.81; Seymour a 4.95; Warren a 5.1 at the combine at 307 lbs.

I think Dorsey's the best player in the draft. I think Ellis will also be a very good player. You can look at the comparables all you want, but at the end of the day, they're not rated among the top 8 players in the draft because they have brilliant forensic skills or drive a cool car. They can play the game, and I am fine projecting them to 3-4 DE.

Every year busts are routinely rated among the top 10 players in the draft. Every year those players are considered can't miss prospects, and many of them miss. So just because a guy is rated high on the board does not guarantee his ability or NFL future. The pats must get a star player with this pick. I feel uncomfortable betting on a player who does not seem to match up all that well, physically, with current NFL starters at the position.

Also, sincere thanks to Pony and Pisa for running the numbers. It brings a fresh angle to the debate.

Thanks for the kind words.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Koettbulle]

Good work Pony. I hope any interest from Pats in Ellis are just BBioli blowing smoke.

 

[mike100915]

I think if the Patriots were to draft either one they'd be for the NT and not end. Also, they would probably play alot more of a 4-3, and possibly at times a 5-2. The drafting of either one would allow they to rotate more and do a few more things on defense. I think drafting either one makes alot more sense then most people. A good DL is so diffcult to come by, and this would allow their DL to take it to the next level.

 

[Relentless649]

The pick here has to be Linebacker. We signed a few plug in corners like we usually do and we will be fine there. I think we were ranked 4th in run defense last year and Vince Wilfork coming off of a pro bowl year so DT should no be that high on our board. Linebacker is a different story here, Our linebacker are one of the smartest linebacking cores in the league but we're also one of the oldest. Vernon Gholston is going to be sitting right there with pick #7, and with comparisons to Shawne Merrieman who lead the league in sack the last 2 years, I think he's worth the risk here.

 

[SamBamsFan]

The pick here has to be Linebacker. We signed a few plug in corners like we usually do and we will be fine there. I think we were ranked 4th in run defense last year and Vince Wilfork coming off of a pro bowl year so DT should no be that high on our board. Linebacker is a different story here, Our linebacker are one of the smartest linebacking cores in the league but we're also one of the oldest. Vernon Gholston is going to be sitting right there with pick #7, and with comparisons to Shawne Merrieman who lead the league in sack the last 2 years, I think he's worth the risk here.

Welcome to the Board.
Now... In Super Bowl xxxvi we had the oldest LB corp in the league. In the years since there has been transitions, but every year our LB corp has been the oldest. Every spring I set out my draft board which is littered with names like Merrimen, Ware, Rudd, Lawson & Moss. Each year it doesn't happen. Do you guess there is a plan here?

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Welcome to the Board.
Now... In Super Bowl xxxvi we had the oldest LB corp in the league. In the years since there has been transitions, but every year our LB corp has been the oldest. Every spring I set out my draft board which is littered with names like Merrimen, Ware, Rudd, Lawson & Moss. Each year it doesn't happen. Do you guess there is a plan here?

I wonder what Seau's or Bruschis 40 yard time would be now? (yet the Pats still have open spots for them on this team ). But Seau still makes plays and Bruschi is a leader in tackles -and we had a great D last year.

However, I am rooting for an OLB since Rosy is gone and Vrable wore down last year in his pass rush - he was a beast the first half of the season. Would be good to get a Merring or Gholston or Harvey to get some youth and athleticism there (big upgrade over P. Woods).

I have to agree with the earlier posts about a top 10 first round pick (whether it be # 7 or trade down) - with that kind of pick and probably $15 - 20 million guaranteed; you need an impact player now (LB or CB). Not taking an Ellis and talk about developing him to take over for our DL starters in 2009. DL and WR are the biggest strengths on this team. Shouldn't invest too much $$ on one position or else you'll get burnt elsewhere. (See Dallas Clark over the middle burning us - in AFCC '2007). Weaknesses WILL be exploited and our linebackers should not be counted on to give a full season at their ages. SO - forget Ellis and trade out of that if he falls to us. We have decent backup at DL with Wright, Green and Le Kevin. Our backups at LB ----well, do I need to say any more?

 

[State]

His numbers can be construed as being suspect, but the man dominated at a high collegiate level. Give me a break. He'd give great depth to the D-Line. I still would rather have an athletic LBer.

 

[Pisa]

How often do you find a nose tackle that gets 8.5 sacks? I think Ellis is a better player than Dorsey and a top five pick. A lot depends on the role he is expected to play. If you are looking for a guy to create a pile in the middle of the field, go elsewhere. If you are looking for a disruptive NT who can also push the pocket, he's your guy.

 

[Handel]

After all is said and done. The only thing I ask is "How the Hell did Vince Wilfork last until the 17th pick?" I'm still giddy over it .

worst. 21st.

 

[SamBamsFan]

I think Ellis is a better player than Dorsey ...

I think you are mistaken

 

[sebman2112]

I didn't notice if anyone else has posted this (I didn't have the time to fully check either), but there are some whispers going around concerning Ellis. According to those whispers, he could slide due to "undisclosed issues". I'm not sure if this is true, but it is out there.

 

[PonyExpress]

I didn't notice if anyone else has posted this (I didn't have the time to fully check either), but there are some whispers going around concerning Ellis. According to those whispers, he could slide due to "undisclosed issues". I'm not sure if this is true, but it is out there.

Wow. Could you elaborate? That's very interesting.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

worst. 21st.

Which is why you would not draft a guy at #7 to back him (or anyone else already on this roster) up... Not sure you would even draft his replacement there unless you were planning on his leaving in LESS than 2 (or 3 if tagged) years.

People are too hung up on BPA. Talent that can't play in the system is a waste of time and money. In the top ten if they can't play in the system out of the gate (the conversion projects) it's a salary structure slap in the face to all the guys who are currently starting for little more or a lot less... There is a lot more to teambuilding than accumulating the most talent, as Pioli often says when nobody here is listening.

 

[goldenaleus]

I still think that if we stay at 7 then Ellis is the pick if he is available unless we find a trading partner. I have been in the Ellis corner all this time.

 

[alvinnf]

you never have enough DL, the more high quality players at that position the better they make everything else go. That's why we can afford to have older smarter slower linebackers, cuz the big guys are doing the dirty work. Not to mention there where times when they struggled in the 43 last season, I think they want to have the flexibilty to run 43 and 34 equally effective to keep people fresh and insulate themselves against injury.