The way I hear it!

[UMDshawn]

Oh there is definitely a lot of BS being thrown about right now, and the media loves to take it and run with it because they have as much info and insight as anyone here. Did anyone see the Charger's GM's quote on espn tonight about how there isn't an honest man in the NFL during this month? I thought it was funny.

 

[letekro]

First of all, take a few steps back. You make a TON of assumptions.

1) Yes, I wouldn't touch Dorsey with a 10 ft pole because he doesn't fit the Pats scheme. You don't bring in players who are going to sit on the bench because you MIGHT lose some players to free agency in 2 years.

2) What you offer up isn't logical. If you are going to make the change to a 4-3, you don't bring in Hobson and you don't retain Bruschi. You make the trade for Vilma since he's, arguably, amongst the best 4-3 MLBs in the league. And, while the Pats could play a heavy 4-3 now, they would need, immediately, 1 OLB since Vrabel is a 4-3 DE and not a 4-3 OLB. Thomas can fit the 4-3 DE or OLB because of his agility.

3) There has been a "lack of depth" at LB for about 6 years now. During that time, the Pats did win 2 SBs. Yes, they've missed out on a few, but, there's a good chance that Hobson can move inside since he's already familiar with the 3-4 2 GAP system. You bring him in with Seau and Bruschi and you can develop another, younger, ILB behind them who would be able to start next year. Someone like a Goff or Mayo.

4) The Pats, in this draft alone, could add 2 quality LBs (one at OLB and one at ILB) and then continue to add via free agency the way they've done and they'd be fine. Again, 40+ million goes a long way. As does continuing to win.

5) The Pats have 6 D-linemen currently. Green, Warren, Wilfork, Seymour, Smith and Wright. Wright is a UFA next season. Green, Wilfork and Seyour in 2 seasons. Do you really think that the Pats are going to let them ALL walk? You aren't that daft, are you?

What he said. The Ellis stuff is a fairly transparent ploy to increase his value so that either (1) someone above the Pats will jump on him, allowing the real target to fall; or (2) someone will want to trade up with the Pats to grab him.

 

[UMDshawn]

First of all, take a few steps back. You make a TON of assumptions.

1) Yes, I wouldn't touch Dorsey with a 10 ft pole because he doesn't fit the Pats scheme. You don't bring in players who are going to sit on the bench because you MIGHT lose some players to free agency in 2 years.

2) What you offer up isn't logical. If you are going to make the change to a 4-3, you don't bring in Hobson and you don't retain Bruschi. You make the trade for Vilma since he's, arguably, amongst the best 4-3 MLBs in the league. And, while the Pats could play a heavy 4-3 now, they would need, immediately, 1 OLB since Vrabel is a 4-3 DE and not a 4-3 OLB. Thomas can fit the 4-3 DE or OLB because of his agility.

3) There has been a "lack of depth" at LB for about 6 years now. During that time, the Pats did win 2 SBs. Yes, they've missed out on a few, but, there's a good chance that Hobson can move inside since he's already familiar with the 3-4 2 GAP system. You bring him in with Seau and Bruschi and you can develop another, younger, ILB behind them who would be able to start next year. Someone like a Goff or Mayo.

4) The Pats, in this draft alone, could add 2 quality LBs (one at OLB and one at ILB) and then continue to add via free agency the way they've done and they'd be fine. Again, 40+ million goes a long way. As does continuing to win.

5) The Pats have 6 D-linemen currently. Green, Warren, Wilfork, Seymour, Smith and Wright. Wright is a UFA next season. Green, Wilfork and Seyour in 2 seasons. Do you really think that the Pats are going to let them ALL walk? You aren't that daft, are you?

The last line of my post said that I'm just trying to find a logical reason why they might draft one of either Dorsey or Ellis. No I don't think all of them are going to walk. Yes I agree they could draft talented linebackers this year, and next year. And yes, very clearly this team likes to run the 3-4 and is commited to doing so right now. All of these things are very clear! All I was doing was speculating like everyone else on this board. But, perhaps the team sees something in Ellis and Dorsey that none of us do. I don't know, but neither does anyone else here. As I said in my original post, if I had to guess what was going to happen, I would guess that they draft Keith Rivers. But, if the team truly loves one of them, and isn't just sending out a smoke screen, then I am wondering why, since neither one appears to fit the current system.

(edit)This is minor semantics, and I'm not trying to discredit you, but the Jets would not allow the Pats to negotiate with Vilma.

 

[dryheat44]

To be completely honest, almost everything he said was a somewhat regurgitated version of what members of this forum have previously said.

That's because we're a fairly knowledgeable lot and have a rudimentary understanding of how the Patriots front office works. I always find some value in PT55's posts. Certainly #7-9 aren't foregone conclusions. #2-3 are original insightful claims. I can't wait to see how the draft shakes out to see if it supports his claims.

 

[mike100915]

This is a sham. We could all do this if we wanted. You take a bunch of the rumors and be mysterious about them. All he does is collect all the rumors which all of us know, and then put his spin on them with his "inside info". Come on do you guys really think he has any inside knowledge? It's fun to read, but come on......he's no different from us.

 

[dryheat44]

2. They still feel the same about Chris Long. He's a great kid with good but not overwhelmingly great talent. They like Gholston ALOT more as a prospect for OLB. In fact Long could fall to 8 or 9 depending on 3 teams. Not named New England, Miami and St. Louis.

3. They won't trade up in this draft and if Gholston falls they will consider, if Chris Long falls they still want to trade down. Only 1 player worth a trade up and he will be (Long) gone.

PT55

Thanks for the post. Do you think Groves' cardiac history has them backing off a bit?

 

[sebman2112]

That's because we're a fairly knowledgeable lot and have a rudimentary understanding of how the Patriots front office works. I always find some values in PT55's posts. Certainly #7-9 aren't foregone conclusions. #2-3 are original insightful claims. I can't wait to see how the draft shakes out to see if it supports his claims.

How do you personally gain all that much insight from his post? Go back and check your prior convos, and you'll realize that "55" usually seems to agree with just about everything you say regarding draft prospects. He also recycled a few ideas I hadn't seen floated anywhere else but here. Also, when this poster first started posting in the draft forum, he didn't come off as all that knowledgeable, but now he suddenly knows all? Complete BS.

 

[dryheat44]

How do you personally gain all that much insight from his post? Go back and check your prior convos, and you'll realize that "55" usually seems to agree with just about everything you say regarding draft prospects. He also recycled a few ideas I hadn't seen floated anywhere else but here.

Well, he's had the Patriots on Stewart from the beginning. He's had them liking Jenkins where nobody else, including me, sees it. He has them not liking McKelvin or Cromartie, which is borderline heresy. He has them going WR early. He strongly feels they can go OL in the first round and LB not until the third. He has them thinking Chris Long is very overrated, in fact if they were both there at #7, they'd take Gholston....none of these go along with the common thinking around here.

I mean, I believe he has a source among the Patriots scouting community. Maybe he doesn't and he just likes to sound important on anonymous message boards. We'll know soon enough. And in our prior convos, I think he influences my thinking a lot more than I do his.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

(A) I don't understand the whole argument about Ellis or Dorsey.

First of all, They will not change from their base 3-4, but will continue to utilize the 4-3 at times.

(B) Ellis or Dorsey would both be the back-up NT to Wilfork and both are talented and flexible enough to move out to end at times.

(C) Both players would upgrade the D-Line immediatly over Wright (6-4, 295)and Smith (6-1, 308).

(D) The argument about the size of Ellis (specifically) is very flawed.
1. They feel he can pack on some more weight
2. His ability to command a double team and the way he uses his leverage and power is very attractive.

(E) For those calling this a smoke screen, think about this:
You might have an argument if it was just Ellis, However, you include a player like Dorsey and that theory goes out the window because Dorsey has never been in their mind outside the Top-5. Also, Laws is another player they like if they address D-Line later and I've heard comparisons to Ellis specifically in regards to him.

(F) This was finally picked up on a whole month after their interest started to peak.

(G) Think about this for a minute: If they feel that they have NO glaring weaknesses and they like their depth and flexibility at corner and they have a different plan for LBer depth. They are looking for the best player to upgrade a position and bring some value and flexibility to the team. Why not upgrade your NT position if they feel that's more of an upgrade for their depth and flexibility.

(H) I keep saying don't be surprised because they don't have the sense of urgency to pick a LBer or Corner like most of the fans and they would like to upgrade depth at other areas before what the fans would consider more needed areas.

The thinking is this: The best way to keep constant pressure on the QB is to have depth so guys don't get to tired. Your back-up should be comparable to the starter. So if they draft a player like Ellis you now have a back-up NT that is so powerful he commands a double team and still gives others like Green, Warren, Seymour and the Rush LB's better match-ups on key 3rd downs while you replace Vince on those downs. Wright has a good motor but doesn't command a double team and gets pushed around because he's got a 6-4 frame and its' harder to gain leverage. It's about upgrading and flexibility and they feel Ellis would be an instant upgrade at a premium position in the 3-4.

You can agree with it or not, but I just give you what I'm hearing.
PT55

 

[mike100915]

How do you personally gain all that much insight from his post? Go back and check your prior convos, and you'll realize that "55" usually seems to agree with just about everything you say regarding draft prospects. He also recycled a few ideas I hadn't seen floated anywhere else but here. Also, when this poster first started posting in the draft forum, he didn't come off as all that knowledgeable, but now he suddenly knows all? Complete BS.

I agree with you 100%. It's interesting to read, but in the end, he doesn't have an inside source. Good ideas.....but that's it.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Thanks for the post. Do you think Groves' cardiac history has them backing off a bit?

Dryheat,

Nothing has changed on Groves. They were aware of this as were many teams when he did his team physicals and something showed up and that's when this became a concern. He has sense then been checked out and is okay. The media got wind of this late.

With Groves (who my brother would hurt if you say anything bad about) it's going to come down to options and value of the trade down. In other words how far back they go will give the indictation (I believe).

PT55

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

How do you personally gain all that much insight from his post? Go back and check your prior convos, and you'll realize that "55" usually seems to agree with just about everything you say regarding draft prospects. He also recycled a few ideas I hadn't seen floated anywhere else but here. Also, when this poster first started posting in the draft forum, he didn't come off as all that knowledgeable, but now he suddenly knows all? Complete BS.

Sebs, Mike and Others.

I can respect your skepticism, heck I would to. However, a couple of things.

1. If I were here as an impostor so to speak, What's in it for me? Obviously, I know I will be greeted with some doubters right? So if I want to be glorified then I would post like I did this time all the time and just drop name after name. So it would be easier to rub it in people's face. I DON'T

2. I'm not forcing NO ONE to believe me and I'm not trying to sway my opinion on anybody as to influence your opinions. This again doesn't add up to self gratification.

3. I started posting on Dryheat and other people's draft board talks and as far as those ARGUMENTS with DaBruinz, well my younger brother who champions himself a master debater and since been bannished from posting under my name will have to own up to that. He likes to get under DaBruinz skin and that goes back to the ESPN Boards he says. Also, he LOVES Groves and won't be told anything else. In fact, he's not even a Patriots fan so I apologize for any mis-understandings and he has since been disowned for his allegiance to Buffalo.

4. You want to check my background out and I encourage it
Go through my posts with Dryheat and others and just simply do this. Get the names on my posts and the dates I presented at the time and look at when the information was reported on. You will find that I have consistently been a week ahead of the curve. My information has been collaborated in Reiss's mailbag and his mocks and other reports.

I will give a couple of examples:
Dry heat mentioned Mike Jenkins: (BB personal visit)
I've mentioned :Cason, Thomas, Talib, Wheatley, and many others.

I talked about a WR that can return in DeSean Jackson and referenced Hester with him. Well scout.com did an article on those two yesterday and compared them. The Patriots are looking at a similar player in Dexter Jackson.

I've talked about Ellis very early (over a month ago) on when people doubted his ability to play in a 3-4 and told Heatster to NOT discount him nor Trevor Laws.

I also, talked about Takeo Spikes and said look for a young LB signing before the draft and (althought many fans believed Hobson to be a natural fit) how many fans gave up on him? I told Heatster not to be surprised if they pull the trigger on a LB before the draft because a high target would either jump up (like he has) or a better option should arise and they want to keep flexibility
open.

Personally, I would love to say "Man, I'm good, I hit on virtually every target" However, You can't be as dead-on as I have without some better knowledge other than your own. I'm not that stupid nor arrogant as to take ANY credit here on a message board for self gratification. But, it's not about me it's about the Patriots and what's best for this team.

I will post again soon and I'm looking forward to talking to you all on the offical draft day thread for any last second dealings.

Again, enjoy this time to be a Patriots fan and watch how they work this draft.

By the way if I wanted to shut up any doubters, I would just post what seems(Key word here is seems because they trust their scouting department and BB/Pioli are finalizing the offical List as we speak) to be they're TOP-15 on the Draft Board and just sit back and wait to claim myself supreme but I would NEVER break the agreement to prove people wrong on a message board.

Editorial note:* If I say statements like on line 6. (of the op) I know I'm talking to a savvy intelligent fanbase so I will give you the hint and know you will figure it out. *Some of my information will seem broad but If you pay attention to the hints and/or buzzwords they will be on point.* I have many names I could pass out but WONT (As you understand) However, I will give you enough buzzwords and/or hints to narrow it down so an intelligent fanbase can get it.

Enjoy Gentlemen and Ladies, Thanks for your time.
PT55

 

[captain stone]

(A) I don't understand the whole argument about Ellis or Dorsey.

First of all, They will not change from their base 3-4, but will continue to utilize the 4-3 at times.

(B) Ellis or Dorsey would both be the back-up NT to Wilfork and both are talented and flexible enough to move out to end at times.

(C) Both players would upgrade the D-Line immediatly over Wright (6-4, 295)and Smith (6-1, 308).

(D) The argument about the size of Ellis (specifically) is very flawed.
1. They feel he can pack on some more weight
2. His ability to command a double team and the way he uses his leverage and power is very attractive.

(E) For those calling this a smoke screen, think about this:
You might have an argument if it was just Ellis, However, you include a player like Dorsey and that theory goes out the window because Dorsey has never been in their mind outside the Top-5. Also, Laws is another player they like if they address D-Line later and I've heard comparisons to Ellis specifically in regards to him.

(F) This was finally picked up on a whole month after their interest started to peak.

(G) Think about this for a minute: If they feel that they have NO glaring weaknesses and they like their depth and flexibility at corner and they have a different plan for LBer depth. They are looking for the best player to upgrade a position and bring some value and flexibility to the team. Why not upgrade your NT position if they feel that's more of an upgrade for their depth and flexibility.

(H) I keep saying don't be surprised because they don't have the sense of urgency to pick a LBer or Corner like most of the fans and they would like to upgrade depth at other areas before what the fans would consider more needed areas.

The thinking is this: The best way to keep constant pressure on the QB is to have depth so guys don't get to tired. Your back-up should be comparable to the starter. So if they draft a player like Ellis you now have a back-up NT that is so powerful he commands a double team and still gives others like Green, Warren, Seymour and the Rush LB's better match-ups on key 3rd downs while you replace Vince on those downs. Wright has a good motor but doesn't command a double team and gets pushed around because he's got a 6-4 frame and its' harder to gain leverage. It's about upgrading and flexibility and they feel Ellis would be an instant upgrade at a premium position in the 3-4.

You can agree with it or not, but I just give you what I'm hearing.
PT55

These attempts at justifying taking Dorsey or - much worse - Ellis at #7 is unbelievable to me. How is a backup NT going to improve the pass rush? To improve the pass rush, you need - surprise! - Pass Rushers. The FO needs to draft an OLB (the next Rosie Colvin) and/or a pass-rushing DE (another Jarvis Green) early, and perhaps often. I will shyte a brick the size of a microwave oven if the FO chooses Sedrick Ellis at #7 - or at any number.

 

[PonyExpress]

Sebs, Mike and Others.

I can respect your skepticism, heck I would to. However, a couple of things.

1. If I were here as an impostor so to speak, What's in it for me? Obviously, I know I will be greeted with some doubters right? So if I want to be glorified then I would post like I did this time all the time and just drop name after name. So it would be easier to rub it in people's face. I DON'T

2. I'm not forcing NO ONE to believe me and I'm not trying to sway my opinion on anybody as to influence your opinions. This again doesn't add up to self gratification.

3. I started posting on Dryheat and other people's draft board talks and as far as those ARGUMENTS with DaBruinz, well my younger brother who champions himself a master debater and since been bannished from posting under my name will have to own up to that. He likes to get under DaBruinz skin and that goes back to the ESPN Boards he says. Also, he LOVES Groves and won't be told anything else. In fact, he's not even a Patriots fan so I apologize for any mis-understandings and he has since been disowned for his allegiance to Buffalo.

4. You want to check my background out and I encourage it
Go through my posts with Dryheat and others and just simply do this. Get the names on my posts and the dates I presented at the time and look at when the information was reported on. You will find that I have consistently been a week ahead of the curve. My information has been collaborated in Reiss's mailbag and his mocks and other reports.

I will give a couple of examples:
Dry heat mentioned Mike Jenkins: (BB personal visit)
I've mentioned :Cason, Thomas, Talib, Wheatley, and many others.

I talked about a WR that can return in DeSean Jackson and referenced Hester with him. Well scout.com did an article on those two yesterday and compared them. The Patriots are looking at a similar player in Dexter Jackson.

I've talked about Ellis very early (over a month ago) on when people doubted his ability to play in a 3-4 and told Heatster to NOT discount him nor Trevor Laws.

I also, talked about Takeo Spikes and said look for a young LB signing before the draft and (althought many fans believed Hobson to be a natural fit) how many fans gave up on him? I told Heatster not to be surprised if they pull the trigger on a LB before the draft because a high target would either jump up (like he has) or a better option should arise and they want to keep flexibility
open.

Personally, I would love to say "Man, I'm good, I hit on virtually every target" However, You can't be as dead-on as I have without some better knowledge other than your own. I'm not that stupid nor arrogant as to take ANY credit here on a message board for self gratification. But, it's not about me it's about the Patriots and what's best for this team.

I will post again soon and I'm looking forward to talking to you all on the offical draft day thread for any last second dealings.

Again, enjoy this time to be a Patriots fan and watch how they work this draft.

By the way if I wanted to shut up any doubters, I would just post what seems(Key word here is seems because they trust their scouting department and BB/Pioli are finalizing the offical List as we speak) to be they're TOP-15 on the Draft Board and just sit back and wait to claim myself supreme but I would NEVER break the agreement to prove people wrong on a message board.

Enjoy Gentlemen and Ladies,
PT55

Just keep posting and damn the torpedoes.

 

[mike100915]

Sebs, Mike and Others.

I can respect your skepticism, heck I would to. However, a couple of things.

1. If I were here as an impostor so to speak, What's in it for me? Obviously, I know I will be greeted with some doubters right? So if I want to be glorified then I would post like I did this time all the time and just drop name after name. So it would be easier to rub it in people's face. I DON'T

2. I'm not forcing NO ONE to believe me and I'm not trying to sway my opinion on anybody as to influence your opinions. This again doesn't add up to self gratification.

3. I started posting on Dryheat and other people's draft board talks and as far as those ARGUMENTS with DaBruinz, well my younger brother who champions himself a master debater and since been bannished from posting under my name will have to own up to that. He likes to get under DaBruinz skin and that goes back to the ESPN Boards he says. Also, he LOVES Groves and won't be told anything else. In fact, he's not even a Patriots fan so I apologize for any mis-understandings and he has since been disowned for his allegiance to Buffalo.

4. You want to check my background out and I encourage it
Go through my posts with Dryheat and others and just simply do this. Get the names on my posts and the dates I presented at the time and look at when the information was reported on. You will find that I have consistently been a week ahead of the curve. My information has been collaborated in Reiss's mailbag and his mocks and other reports.

I will give a couple of examples:
Dry heat mentioned Mike Jenkins: (BB personal visit)
I've mentioned :Cason, Thomas, Talib, Wheatley, and many others.

I talked about a WR that can return in DeSean Jackson and referenced Hester with him. Well scout.com did an article on those two yesterday and compared them. The Patriots are looking at a similar player in Dexter Jackson.

I've talked about Ellis very early (over a month ago) on when people doubted his ability to play in a 3-4 and told Heatster to NOT discount him nor Trevor Laws.

I also, talked about Takeo Spikes and said look for a young LB signing before the draft and (althought many fans believed Hobson to be a natural fit) how many fans gave up on him? I told Heatster not to be surprised if they pull the trigger on a LB before the draft because a high target would either jump up (like he has) or a better option should arise and they want to keep flexibility
open.

Personally, I would love to say "Man, I'm good, I hit on virtually every target" However, You can't be as dead-on as I have without some better knowledge other than your own. I'm not that stupid nor arrogant as to take ANY credit here on a message board for self gratification. But, it's not about me it's about the Patriots and what's best for this team.

I will post again soon and I'm looking forward to talking to you all on the offical draft day thread for any last second dealings.

Again, enjoy this time to be a Patriots fan and watch how they work this draft.

By the way if I wanted to shut up any doubters, I would just post what seems(Key word here is seems because they trust their scouting department and BB/Pioli are finalizing the offical List as we speak) to be they're TOP-15 on the Draft Board and just sit back and wait to claim myself supreme but I would NEVER break the agreement to prove people wrong on a message board.

Editorial note:* If I say statements like on line 6. (of the op) I know I'm talking to a savvy intelligent fanbase so I will give you the hint and know you will figure it out. *Some of my information will seem broad but If you pay attention to the hints and/or buzzwords they will be on point.* I have many names I could pass out but WONT (As you understand) However, I will give you enough buzzwords and/or hints to narrow it down so an intelligent fanbase can get it.

Enjoy Gentlemen and Ladies, Thanks for your time.
PT55

I can respect that. But I am still a skeptic. No offense. With giving it away, how do you have this inside knowledge? Is it through a friend or something else? Please give us a bit of a hint, so were aren't as skepticial.
Thank You!

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Just keep posting and damn the torpedoes.

Thanks PE,
I'm not going anywhere anytime soon (hopefully).
PT55

 

[ALP]

thanks for the info....

maybe we draft rivers with 7, and have a stud lb for years to come (thats also young and fast)

and get crhis johnson as the rb, and cason as the later cb...

i dont particularly care about drafting a wr, but o-line i wouldnt mind...

and i would give the 5th for seward, he made an NFL roster, the chances taht our 5th pick just makes an NFL roster are real slim

 

[BradyToMoss]

Just keep posting and damn the torpedoes.

DITTO !!!! Keep firing

PT55, inside info has it that the Pats have DRC rated higher than McKelvin, and would take Ro-Cro over McKelvin as fast as the card could be rushed up to Goodell, can you confirm or deny this?

Source:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-5-803/Instant-Hash-Mock-feedback.html

 

[borg]

For what it's worth, I made my annual predraft phone call into the center point between Boston, Worcester, and Providence...and the only tidbit I could extract this year is that the Pats feel Hobbs would be a better DB in a 4-3 system. For the life of me, I couldn't begin to understand the difference in roles of a 3-4 or a 4-3 DB....but I do recognize that the 2007 Defense had problems on third down and redzone situations. A speed rusher from the D Line may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I can respect that. But I am still a skeptic. No offense. With giving it away, how do you have this inside knowledge? Is it through a friend or something else? Please give us a bit of a hint, so were aren't as skepticial.
Thank You!

No Offense taken, In fact, I would question you if you weren't skeptical but look at my history and it will pass an initial smell test. I do have MANY friends in the organization but that doesn't necessarily mean anything as it pertains to insider info. So let's say something else. Dryheat did have an interesting thought about it though. That's all I got and I know it's Broad. Sorry.
PT55