Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert (merged)

[PATRIOT64]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I don't want an OL in first round.

Agreed
Joe Thomas was last years OL prize,There are no real standouts this year

If Joe was around at #7 this year it would have been a no brainer....

 

[DocE]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I think it's an interesting argument that Albert is the "safest" pick at no.7. On one hand, Albert is anything but a safe pick as you simply do not take an offensive guard with the 7th pick in the draft. In order to justify his contract, he will have to be not just good at his position, but among the elite at it. Projecting a college guard to OT and drafting him at no.7? Hardly a "safe" move in my mind. I realize many scouts believe he could play LT, but he didn't stand out at the position the 2 games he played there in college. I question why he never made the permanent move to LT (the most important position on the line) in college if he has the ability to play there in the pros.

On the other hand, the most important thing to do in the first round is get a guy who will be a good football player and not bust out. Albert may or may not work out at LT, but he should be a solid guard in a worst case scenario. He'd be a vastly overpaid solid guard, but atleast he would be starting and contributing to the team. If you look at simply "bust potential" (ie Mike Williams), Albert probably is the safest guy available at no.7.

Good debate topic, I could really go either way on the issue.

 

[CoachK]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I'm not sold on Golshton. Hopefully BB thinks Rivers is worth the #7 (but I boubt it).

I would take Albert over Clady, and IMHO he is a much "safer" pick than any of the CBs.

Ideally we can trade out to the 10-14 range and then get value at LB or CB.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Ive reached the speculation PEAK at this point, and Im basically penciling in Albert as our guy. Some would agree, some disagree. But realistically, we just cant expect Chris Long or Gholston to be there at 7. Id love to see our coaching staff mold one of those guys into the our next McGinest or Vrabel. Of course, Jake Long and McFadden will be gone by 7. Not that McFadden would be a consideration anyway. Though the thought is a little interesting.

But after the Pats chose Mankins in the 1st back in '05, when LM was considered to be no better than a mid 2nd-3rd rounder, we know anything is possible. But who really thinks that Steve Neal is going to hold up another season? Knee and shoulder injuries looming? And who really wants to see Russ Hochstein blocking the other team's biggest and strongest players on a regular basis? Not me. And who likes the idea of Brady seeing more of that inside pressure on a regular basis with backup quality O guard play protecting him? Not me. Albert is a young guy with a huge future in the NFL. He could be the next Randall McDaniel or Wil Shields. He could probably eventually play any position on the line. The guy has played 37 games for his university in his 3 years, and STARTED every single one of them. The guy is a NATURALLY ENORMOUS BEAST who can pull!

We'll get those key defensive players with our 2nd rounder and two 3rd rounders. And we'll probably love those guys in time, even though we'll probably be scratching our heads somewhat in some way. Always happens.
But Albert is our guy! He's a young stud and he'll protect Brady for the remainder of his career. Sign me up!!

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I'm not getting the love for Albert who is a guard and played 2 games a OT.

Maybe he is the real deal. But at #7, I would go with Rivers, Gholston, or even McKelvin before him.

I know that there has been some talk lately that Gholston may be overrated and he very well can be.

But what does overrated mean. Does it mean that he won't be an elete All Pro player? But it could mean that he is just a kid who will become a very solid starter at OLB. Or, does it mean he will be a complete bust. I would still trade up to #5 for him and if the Patriots should do that, then I will trust their judgement.

If he is there at #7 and the Patriots pass on him, I will trust their judgement .

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I'm not getting the love for Albert who is a guard and played 2 games a OT.

Maybe he is the real deal. But at #7, I would go with Rivers, Gholston, or even McKelvin before him.

I know that there has been some talk lately that Gholston may be overrated and he very well can be.

But what does overrated mean. Does it mean that he won't be an elete All Pro player? But it could mean that he is just a kid who will become a very solid starter at OLB. Or, does it mean he will be a complete bust. I would still trade up to #5 for him and if the Patriots should do that, then I will trust their judgement.

If he is there at #7 and the Patriots pass on him, I will trust their judgement .

He just sounds like an 'anchor'. An Oline version of Ty Warren. Warren was taken 13th overall if Im not mistaken. Many people wouldnt think he'd be worth that high of a selection. But the man is steady, he's a BIG, and he gets the job done. You just cant have enough stud BIGs, imo. We can find a Rivers type backer in the 2nd or 3rd. We can find a solid zone corner in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Im really warming up to a guy who's young, HUGE, never missed a start in 3 years against talented competition in a conference putting alot of ends and tackles in the NFL recently, and who's job will be to keep Brady safe.

All teams have needs. Corners are 'needs'. Young LBs are 'needs'. Quality players who can keep our franchise HOFer upright is more of a priority than a 'need', imo. I really have very little faith in our two options at RG entering next season.

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I'm not getting the love for Albert who is a guard and played 2 games a OT.

I don't get it either. For ANY team to spend a top-10 pick on an OG, they'd have to be convinced he's not just good, but truly special. For THIS team -- returning the entire OL from the most prolific offense in NFL history -- to use THIS pick -- the highest they've seen in years -- well. I'd be astonished if they're even considering it.

I wonder whether the sudden love for Albert is partly a function of draft fatigue after looking at the same handful of players at #7 for weeks.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I wonder whether the sudden love for Albert is partly a function of draft fatigue after looking at the same handful of players at #7 for weeks.

Interesting point. I for one can say I am sick of the top end of the draft at this point, so maybe the draft pundits and such are as well.

With Albert, a couple months ago, he showed up on everyone's radar as a guy who could sneak into the first round, and seemed to be a good fit for the Pats b/c of his athleticism. But taking him at 7? That's a huuuuge leap.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Is everyone not aware of how much O Guards are making in the NFL as of late? Specifically, the past 2 or 3 years since Hutchinson set the bar in moving to MN a couple of years ago. NFL front office guys are waking up to the importance of these big lugs, finally. Theyre making in the 7-8mil/year range now. How much do we expect to pay Mankins when his deal is up in another year? He's gonna expect just as much as someone like Alan Faneca, if not more because he'll be so much younger.

O Guards, especially those few that are protecting QBs like Brady I would think, have become much more coveted in the NFL. And imo, if we have a chance to lock a young stud up to a 5/6 year deal after all of the other 5 or so most talented players on the draft board disappear, then we may as well go ahead and do it.

The brass really doesnt have a history of signing LBs early. Not a single one of our guys was an early pick. Nor do they have much of a history of signing corners early. Gotta go back quite a ways to Ty Law's draft class to find a corner taken in the 1st, and that wasnt a Belichick/Pioli choice I dont believe. 3rd and 4th rounders like Hobbs and Samuel, and FAs like Gay, and Troy Brown of all people, have been able to hold it down with pretty decent success. I expect they'll find 1 or 2 young CBs in the 2nd or 3rd and work them into the mix nicely.

Our recent history of 1st rounders points to us taking a BIG for the trenches. Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mankins. Light went at the top of the 2nd with his draft class. I expect the trend will continue.

Just look at the 'talent' we have currently at right guard. Imo, it's the weakest position on the team. Russ Hochstein is a nice, able bodied role player that gives us some versatility and depth. He's 31 this year. Steve Neal will soon turn 32, and the past 2 years he's missed 3 and 8 games, respectively. And now he's coming off chronic shoulder problems as well as a knee injury. How long will he last? That Oline, obviously an area of strength most of the year, could quickly turn into a liability if Neal continues to miss time and we're forced to lean on basically a back-up player. Put a STUD in that spot and call it a day. Make Neal the backup he probably should be at this point in his career. Keep Hochstein on board for depth. Take a strength and make it even stronger! But again, body guards for Brady. They just cant be studly enough, imo. Tom would probably agree.

I think Albert's stock has risen because he's a younger player (JR.) that likely received ZERO attention prior to the combine because of his class. And now teams have had a better opportunity to break down his film. They must like what they see.

 

[alvinnf]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Chris Long refers to him as the best player on his team including himself. When asked what it was like to be considered the top prospect for the draft His quote on sirius nfl was roughly, "anyone who watched cavalier football knows that I was'nt even the best player on my team, it's Brandon Albert, that guys just a beast."

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Chris Long refers to him as the best player on his team including himself. When asked what it was like to be considered the top prospect for the draft His quote on sirius nfl was roughly, "anyone who watched cavalier football knows that I was'nt even the best player on my team, it's Brandon Albert, that guys just a beast."

And who would know better how good the guy is than Long himself. Nice find, A.

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Our recent history of 1st rounders points to us taking a BIG for the trenches. Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mankins. Light went at the top of the 2nd with his draft class.

Umm...doesn't the "recent history" look a little different if you include everybody, not just the guys who fit your statement? The rest of the players drafted in the top 50:

Eugene Wilson
Bethel Johnson
Daniel Graham
Benjamin Watson
Laurence Maroney
Chad Jackson
Brandon Meriweather

So yes, they've picked 2 o-linemen. Also 2 blazing fast WRs, 2 CB/S tweeners, 2 TEs...and remember there are 5 starting OL spots! You really can't make the case for an OG based on the team's past draft tendencies.

And looking at Albert in particular, he isn't a classic Pats-style OG the way Mankins was. Mankins was exceptionally quick and agile and considered the most technically sound lineman in the draft. Compare these vertical, cone and shuttle numbers:

Mankins 31.5 4.45 7.54
Albert 26 4.78 7.97

Is Albert an excellent guard prospect? Doubtless. But #7 overall? I really, really don't think so.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I have been on the Albert bandwagon since seeing him workout at the combine. I was likely one of the first on it, weeks before Mayock,lol. Anyways, he is an interesting prospect, just a JR. I would love to have him on the team ESPECIALLY if Long goes to the Phins!

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Umm...doesn't the "recent history" look a little different if you include everybody, not just the guys who fit your statement?

This is only Belichick's 9th draft with the Pats so the sample size isn't huge. As you noted he has selected just about every position with a first day (new definition) pick except linebacker. The reasons for this have been endlessly guessed at...but past results don't guarantee future returns.

Is Albert an excellent guard prospect? Doubtless. But #7 overall? I really, really don't think so.

He actually plays faster than he times. Not saying he is Mankins but he isn't a plodder. That being said, I can't see him drafted in the top 10 unless there is a plan to play him immediately or very soon at tackle. Even then, someone would need to see something special that causes them to evaluate a conversion project ahead of some solid tackle prospects. I don't see it.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Umm...doesn't the "recent history" look a little different if you include everybody, not just the guys who fit your statement? The rest of the players drafted in the top 50:

Eugene Wilson
Bethel Johnson
Daniel Graham
Benjamin Watson
Laurence Maroney
Chad Jackson
Brandon Meriweather

So yes, they've picked 2 o-linemen. Also 2 blazing fast WRs, 2 CB/S tweeners, 2 TEs...and remember there are 5 starting OL spots! You really can't make the case for an OG based on the team's past draft tendencies.

And looking at Albert in particular, he isn't a classic Pats-style OG the way Mankins was. Mankins was exceptionally quick and agile and considered the most technically sound lineman in the draft. Compare these vertical, cone and shuttle numbers:

Mankins 31.5 4.45 7.54
Albert 26 4.78 7.97

Is Albert an excellent guard prospect? Doubtless. But #7 overall? I really, really don't think so.

I really dont have an agenda with regards to any of my statements. I do get your point. Realistically, I dont expect us to draft another RB or TE in this spot. And like i said, we havent gone LB or CB with a pick in that range. And I just see the big guys upfront as far more of a priority than any other 'need' area on this team. BPA? Who's really to say who that is? Im pretty sure the FO will be looking at BPA in a position of 'need'.

But I find it hard to believe that people are actually comfortable with our options at the RG position. Im not suggesting the team limit their options with where they end up picking. I certainly do hope theyre able to trade down to maybe 9, 10 or 13 to make the pick. And whatever direction they go, I'll be good with because they obviously understand better than anyone what the team needs.

Also, I appreciate your skill/time comparisons with Mankins. Is he the "classic" Pats guard? Didnt know we really had such a prototype. He's a stud Pro Bowler is what he is, so not quite measuring up to his areas of strengths is nothing to really be ashamed of. He was a steal at the 32 slot, and considering his contributions to this Oline, Im sure there are atleast a dozen or so teams that regret passing on him.

Btw, here's a very recent mock draft. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0415&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26page%3dmcshaymock0415

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Someone give me a good reason why we'd take Albert over Clady, though, if both were available. Sure, Clady's wonderlic score was abysmal, but that aside, most scouting reports that I have read figure Clady with a much higher upside than Jake Long, and note him as projecting as a great pass blocker AND run blocker.

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

I find it hard to believe that people are actually comfortable with our options at the RG position.

Speaking just for myself, I'm fine at RG with Neal/Kaczur. I'm much more uncomfortable at right tackle. If Albert looked like a likely day-one starter at RT I'd be more interested, but most of what I've read makes it sound like guard is his natural position.

In general, it's awfully hard to project tendencies/priorities from numbers of draft picks. As Metaphors noted, it's a small sample size -- plus it's biased by past success. E.g., the Pats haven't drafted a QB or LT high in the past 6 years, but that certainly means they don't value those positions highly! It just means they have a couple of guys named Brady and Light on the roster. But I do think it's possible to project types and qualities of players within a position. E.g. Light, Mankins and Kaczur, the 3 day-1 o-lineman, have all had exceptional agility numbers and were considered a little light/undersized.

Honestly, though, it may all just be wishful thinking. I don't WANT them to spend a top-10 pick on Branden Albert, dagnabbit!

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Someone give me a good reason why we'd take Albert over Clady, though, if both were available. Sure, Clady's wonderlic score was abysmal, but that aside, most scouting reports that I have read figure Clady with a much higher upside than Jake Long, and note him as projecting as a great pass blocker AND run blocker.

Abysmal wonderlic. We both know this team doesnt like guys who are dumb or unprepared. A 13 on the W is a bit of a red flag.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Speaking just for myself, I'm fine at RG with Neal/Kaczur. I'm much more uncomfortable at right tackle. If Albert looked like a likely day-one starter at RT I'd be more interested, but most of what I've read makes it sound like guard is his natural position.

In general, it's awfully hard to project tendencies/priorities from numbers of draft picks. As Metaphors noted, it's a small sample size -- plus it's biased by past success. E.g., the Pats haven't drafted a QB or LT high in the past 6 years, but that certainly means they don't value those positions highly! It just means they have a couple of guys named Brady and Light on the roster. But I do think it's possible to project types and qualities of players within a position. E.g. Light, Mankins and Kaczur, the 3 day-1 o-lineman, have all had exceptional agility numbers and were considered a little light/undersized.

Honestly, though, it may all just be wishful thinking. I don't WANT them to spend a top-10 pick on Branden Albert, dagnabbit!

Im basically with you. I dont WANT us to draft an Olineman. Id rather have Long or Gholston or even Jenkins or Cromartie. Im just preparing myself for the most boring top 15 1st round choice in the Patriots history.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Pats safest pick at 7 is Brandon Albert

Btw, here's a very recent mock draft. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0415&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26page%3dmcshaymock0415

Note that he has the Patriots passing on both Vernon Gholston, Ryan Clady, and Keith Rivers to take Ellis. Hmmmm. Is this the planet theory at work or does he have "inside" info? If the Chiefs take Albert at 5, more power to them. They just reached for the best guard prospect whom they could have gotten later by trading down to the teen range.