Biggest Myth: "Impossible to decode tapes at halftime"

[castlelong1]

Why 12 minutes? Does everyone stop working at kickoff?

Yes. When the ball is kicked off, maybe some coaching staff actually try to, you know, coach the game.

Dean Pees: "Bill what are you doing?"
Bill Belichichick: "Tape was late. You'll have to go without me as I finish up sign stealing."

Maybe it is just me, but I doubt that conversation happened.

 

[castlelong1]

Why actual video?

Well, that was what was in the camera.

 

[magicianmerl]

Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.

 

[borg]

Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.

You are correct in stating that a transfer would not be necessary. My basic point in this exercise is that a Team would only need to look at a very few specific plays....and I argue it would be third down pass plays. If they can find some useful info, then they can use it late in the game. With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.

 

[castlelong1]

You got me on the conficated TAPE. Regardless, taping 32 defensive signals and flashing to the scoreboard would take (at 15 seconds per signal/flash) is 8 minutes per half of video. I would assume a team would have the technology to transfer video faster than actual play back time.

Boy are you persistent. Unfortunately a persistent ****** is still a ******.

Did you read

It can be done - Clayton reported he uncovered through sources that at least three teams were doing just that in 2006, though none of them was the Patriots. It requires a dedicated staff on site who match up the polaroids to tape that has been downloaded to computer according to John in a matter of seconds. So maybe those teams were not recording from the sidelines using standard video cameras in hiding in plain sight. He said teams who were doing it had the information ready about 12 minutes into the second half. If true I think these are the teams we were punished for because we were caught with tape and they weren't. I think the punishment was heightened to send them a message at our expense because absent a first round draft penalty they are likely still doing it.

I think the Commissioner believed Bill when he stated we did not use tape in game. Teams who did likely would have no use for the extensive written analysis we then compiled post game and retained. Our use was to map playcalling trends specific to systems and coordinators, information we could tap even when they moved on to another organization. Theirs was to crack codes in game from game to game, to facilitate second half adjustments on offense. Extensive notes would be of no use to them because signals change. Clayton said the "tell" on those teams if you knew who they were was fairly dramatic second half performances when compared to the first half. I would guess a research project would be to look for teams whose defense played well in the first half only to be almost inexplicably ***** slapped late in the third and fourth quarter - and see who they were playing...

For me one formerly predictable team that had for 2 years been playing almost rope a dope first half's only to pull away late immediately came to mind. Especially given they had a master signal decipherer on staff coaching their OL. But they were coached by a saint who would never do anything illegal, so... I guess that couldn't be.

by Mo Lewis Rocks?

Take away the vitriol and learn a bit, based on your boy John Clayton.

 

[BradyManny]

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

WRONG.

Let's just clarify this:

DIGITAL VIDEO FROM A DIGITAL NEEDS TO BE CAPTURED IN REAL-TIME. I work in digital video for a living, if you know of a way to capture from a DV tape faster than real-time, please come to my work and show me.

Unless they recorded onto a hard drive (we do it at my work, and yes, you can then move the files over, even that takes time, but considerably less than recording onto tape )- and I'm nearly certain they didn't - they would not be able to capture all the video they took from the first half during half time.

 

[Fixit]

With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.

"Hey! Their signals are different! Therefore, I know exactly what the new ones mean!"

 

[fourthandmiles]

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

Let's just say it is possible, then what. That is not against the rules. It is where they taped from. The sideline. That was against the rules. We admitted that was wrong and paid the man.

 

[castlelong1]

You are correct in stating that a transfer would not be necessary. My basic point in this exercise is that a Team would only need to look at a very few specific plays....and I argue it would be third down pass plays. If they can find some useful info, then they can use it late in the game. With regards to changing the signals, I suspect the tapeholders would be able to learn if a change has occurred.

Yes, your point is stupid. No team ever, in thehistorygoing back to 1922, changed their signals.

I can't believe you have not thought of that.

Let's say you are right. The evil Patriots now know the signals. Not one coach in the league was smart enough to change signals?

That is the conclusion YOU are coming to. Gee, you must think your coach is an idiot.

 

[borg]

Boy are you persistent. Unfortunately a persistent ****** is still a ******.

Did you read
by Mo Lewis Rocks?

Take away the vitriol and learn a bit, based on your boy John Clayton.

Personal attacks will get you kicked off this board. Lighten up, chief

 

[BostonBullit]

I'd say please don't feed the trolls but it's kinda a slow time of year so...whatever...the theory presented has already been shredded by some logic so I'll just move on

 

[Metaphors]

One part of this that nobody mentions...who is breaking down the tape? Belichick and his coaches have other things to do at halftime and are back on the field in 12 minutes. Belichick is involved in all aspects of the product put on the field but he is going to leave his 2nd half play calls/adjustments in the hands of someone else...meaning Belichick is going to adjust the play call and protection schemes based on information he has never seen?

Before anyone mentions Ernie Adams, don't bother. Remember that he is the guy who spends hours breaking down tape to build profiles and analyze tendencies...not rip though an hour and a half of video watching coaches touch themselves in various places and correlate that to defensive results in 30 minutes or less (or your signal decoding is free).

Besides all the other points people have made, try these on for size:

When Brady goes to the line, he is constantly examining the defense and jabbering on and on about "Mike in Omaha" or some other such nonsense. Does it look like he is listening to his helmet receiver (which cuts off anyway) or looking to the sideline for guidance?

If the Pats were stealing defensive signals by video, processing them during halftime and using them in the 2nd half, wouldn't you see a bunch of Pats games where the offense looked inept in the 1st half and became amazingly efficient in the 2nd? In fact, the general tendency for this team over the years is the exact opposite...jump out to a lead and sputter a bit in the 2nd half with the defense saving the day.

Same thing for using the video to prep for a future game. You would expect to see the offensive output in the 2nd game against a team in a calendar year (any older and the info would be stale) to be dramatically better than the previous meeting. Go back and try to find that correlation. Betcha don't find anything.

If stealing signals by video is such a danger to the integrity of the game, how about sending out this memo instead:

"Dear NFL Security at Every Game (but especially every Patriots game),

Please be on the lookout for anyone trying to get on the sidelines with a camera that is not authorized to be filming...you know, the guys with the big yellow or orange vest and big media passes.
If you find someone with an unauthorized camera, please do not let them on the sidelines and report the incident to the league office.

Thank you,
Greg Aiello"

Know why you never saw this memo? Because the powers that be didn't believe that unauthorized filming was a threat to league integrity. There were complaints (like neighbors saying you are playing your music too loud at night) and they dealt with it by sending out a memo instead of notifying the cops. Only when the media got involved did the "integrity" card get played.

Belichick got slapped for violating an operating procedure that he didn't believe in. He knew the chances of getting caught were significant but the league hadn't made too big a deal about it in the past. Not understanding the media reaction was a lapse in judgement that cost a 1st round pick. The violation itself was a misdemenor but giving the media ammunition for questioning league integrity was a felony. It takes some pretty impressive reasoning to come up with a different conclusion:

Belichick tapes!
Taping bad!
Belichick cheats!
Cheating bad!
Hulk smash!

 

[DaBruinz]

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

There is only one problem with this whole spiel of yours. No video viewing equipment is allowed into the lockerroom or into the coaches booth. The NFL has personnel there to ensure it doesn't happen.

So, where are they supposed to view all this? In the hall? come on. You really are reaching here.

 

[DaBruinz]

Okay, as somebody who works in film (and video) let me set the record straight. EVERYTHING is digital. The tape they shoot on is digital tape. There is no digital to analog conversion happening. All NFL teams have industrial tape decks that are capable of stopping on a single frame. So a team could in theory take the tape and look at it at half time, but this process would only be a little more sophisticated than plopping in a VHS into a VCR. The NFL uses a very sophisticated program for logging every single down, however physically transferring the video tapes into this software is very time consuming. There is no possible way that this process could be completed within a half of football. On the other hand, the teams do imprint the game clock onto the video so if a coach wanted to look back at a single play during half time they would be capable of doing so.

No they couldn't. NO Video Viewing Equipment is allowed to be used at half-time in the lockerroom or in the coaching booth other than that provided by the league.

 

[blackglass3]

The biggest myth is that borg made a sensible thread.

 

[Hardboiled]

No they couldn't. NO Video Viewing Equipment is allowed to be used at half-time in the lockerroom or in the coaching booth other than that provided by the league.

And this actually backs up BB's interpretation or makes it more believable. You can't use any of the computerized video equipment during the game.

From a 60 minutes segment before the Houston SB. Panthers Coach Fox is showing off all the video tools he uses for game analysis/scouting.

"There's a whole lot of the chess-game element involved in this," says Fox.

However, this computerized chess game threatens to get so out of hand that the NFL has tried to rein it in.

"We can't use any of this system on game day," says Fox.​

This goes to the long history of only using the editing/playback equipment before or after a game and is what I think BB was referring to in the By-Laws.


For the CBS segement on how teams watch tape see: 60 Minutes Super Bowl

 

[DarrylS]

No they couldn't. NO Video Viewing Equipment is allowed to be used at half-time in the lockerroom or in the coaching booth other than that provided by the league.

Bingo, about 60 responses and we come up with this.. it is so simple, but has become so very complicated..

 

[castlelong1]

Personal attacks will get you kicked off this board. Lighten up, chief

You thought that was personal? You have a ******ed theory you stick by, don't respond to Mo Lewis Rocks and grow upset at the three mystery teams that did it right and waaay differently than the Patriots and are upset at being compared to a ******? Not called, compared to.

Methinks some one needs a skin.

BTW, do you plan on ever addressing Mo Lewis Rock's point or just pretending you did by complaining about me? (Lousy tactic on a WRITTEN forum.)

 

[Kontradiction]

Personal attacks will get you kicked off this board. Lighten up, chief

No it won't. If this was true, I would have been kicked off the board 600 posts ago. Take your own advice and lighten up.

 

[TripleOption]

For all those willing to accept the party line that it would be impossible to examine and decode the defensive signals, I suspect you never actually thought out the process. First in this age of digital video, just progressing through a half of football, especially to specific downs and yardage takes all of a split second. Second, I believe that the info most desired would be third down plays, more than likely passing situations. Using the Jets defense as the example...In 2007, the Jets averaged 63 defensive plays and 13 third down defenses per game. So the Patriots would be looking at 32 defensive snaps, of which maybe 7 were third downs in the first half of games. Of these seven third down plays, the Patriots would probably call 5-6 passing plays. So tell me why it would be so difficult for BB's secret circle of operatives to decode a half dozen signals during halftime, during the third quarter, and if necessary, during the fourth quarter. Oh, that's right, because the Patriots said it wasn't possible.

You are incredibly stupid. For even a staff of coaches to decode signals being given by three different coaches, figure out who is the "live" coach and then sync it up to the game film/down and distance is a b*tch of a job...and to get it done in 15 minutes? impossible. Even in a few hours? Nope.