Does McDaniels hold this team back?

[BionicPatriot]

I'm watching the Sox, I'm bored..And I'm thinking. Am I wrong suddenly thinking McDaniels hurts this team? Last year, the guy had the best passing attack ever. But then one thing bugs me..The running game. Here we have Maroney breaking into the season at the perfect time. My concern is, why does he not use Maroney like he could? If Weis was our OC, I bet he would have turned into a receiver during the super bowl.

Maroney is a very special talent, IMO. I think besides being able to be a good runner, he'd be good at taking little screens and making big plays out of them. Why didn't McDaniels barely try this when they couldn't get a pass off? I just don't understand it, it's not like teams never rushed the Patriots before, they just adjusted using screens under Weis.

I just don't want another season pissed away. IMO, if the defense is straight heading into this season, I think this Patriot team is the favorite. I DON'T want to see them ******* lose AGAIN because our OC can't make adjustments. I think having Morris stay healthy for a full season may hopefully make this offense 100% balanced. Maybe not as "dominating" at times as last season, but better balanced.

 

[Deus Irae]

16-0

#1 scoring offense in NFL history


Next question

 

[BionicPatriot]

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I'm talking mainly about playoffs.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, you would certainly have had a lot of company in questioning McDaniels' coaching before last season's records when most of his critics seemed to go silent. Of course, there are those who observed that an OC couldn't help but look good with a future HOF QB and a WR who has been called one of the two or three best ever along with a guy like Welker. For myself, I don't know. I did feel in the second half of the season and especially in the SB that the team didn't adapt quickly enough ingame and I guess you would put that at the feet of the Offensive Coordinator. Also, the game planning for the SB seemed uninspired (why no hurry-up? as has been asked out here about a million times), but the O Line was beaten so badly, I don't know whether it's fair to put the blame all at McDaniel's feet.

Personally, I am waiting to see what he does with the Offense now that there seems to be a formula to thwart the Pats when they have the ball. To me, he's in the headlights this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm talking mainly about playoffs.

Really?

31 points against Jacksonville
21 points against the Chargers with Brady injured and off his game


Last season, with a weak offense, the team put up 37, 24, and 34 points in the playoffs


Let's call it like it is. You're crying about the Super Bowl, and McDaniels doesn't play offensive line.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm watching the Sox, I'm bored..And I'm thinking. Am I wrong suddenly thinking McDaniels hurts this team?

First, watching MLB always leads to boredom and irrationality, so you're excused.

Secondly, you may find support for your OC criticism in 20,000 + posts on the Political Forum.

 

[JoeSixPat]

16-0

#1 scoring offense in NFL history


Next question

I'd give Tom Brady and Randy Moss a little credit too.

Am I the only person who noticed a trend as the season wore on? That games were getting closer and the offense wasn't as dominant and that Defenses were adapting by draping Moss in coverage and McDaniels was not responding?

I guess the question to ask is whether the Patriots went 18-1...

a. ...thanks to McDaniels
b. ...in spite of McDaniels or
c. ...with no adverse or positive impact from McDaniels.

If one answers b or c then there's a reason for legitimate concern.

Personally my take on how Defenses schemed the Patriots gets back to McDaniels' use of Stallworth.

Early on in the season teams feared what having two major deep threats could do to them. Stallworth was coming off a season in which he proved he was a major threat at 19 ypc. They double covered Moss at their own peril, expecting that McDaniels would simply make Stallworth a deep threat who would burn them.

Over time teams learned that McDaniels had no intention of using Stallworth as a deep threat, even if they devoted an extra man (or two) to Moss. That limited Moss' effectiveness later in the season with Brady having to force passes to him.

There were a couple of times where I thought McDaniels "got it" and began sending Stallwroth deep - the Dallas game and the Baltimore game especially - but he never used Stallworth deep consistently enough to make a difference in Defensive gameplanning.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd give Tom Brady and Randy Moss a little credit too.

Am I the only person who noticed a trend as the season wore on? That games were getting closer and the offense wasn't as dominant and that Defenses were adapting by draping Moss in coverage and McDaniels was not responding?

I guess the question to ask is whether the Patriots went 18-1...

a. ...thanks to McDaniels
b. ...in spite of McDaniels or
c. ...with no adverse or positive impact from McDaniels.

If one answers b or c then there's a reason for legitimate concern.

Personally my take on how Defenses schemed the Patriots gets back to McDaniels' use of Stallworth.

Early on in the season teams feared what having two major deep threats could do to them. Stallworth was coming off a season in which he proved he was a major threat at 19 ypc. They double covered Moss at their own peril, expecting that McDaniels would simply make Stallworth a deep threat who would burn them.

Over time teams learned that McDaniels had no intention of using Stallworth as a deep threat, even if they devoted an extra man (or two) to Moss. That limited Moss' effectiveness later in the season with Brady having to force passes to him.

There were a couple of times where I thought McDaniels "got it" and began sending Stallwroth deep - the Dallas game and the Baltimore game especially - but he never used Stallworth deep consistently enough to make a difference in Defensive gameplanning.

How many times will you assert the already disproven "Stallworth deep ball" argument?

 

[richpats]

16-0

#1 scoring offense in NFL history


Next question

14 points in Super Bowl

Plenty of questions

 

[alvinnf]

I think it's funny that we can score 34 pts. and lose using option principles w/ reche caldwell and jabar gaffney. With moss and stallworth we can only muster 14 pts in the SB, I don't think its fair to place all the blame on JM but he certainly fell in love with records and the deep ball as the year wore on. You know that's fine you can send moss on a fly every play and he's going to get the coverage as long as welkers slotted on his side. Their undoing was stallworths ineffectiveness as the backside reciever in a 2x1 set. He could be jammed, not a good route runner, questionable hands, but an immense talent in his own right. What they needed was somebody more like david givens and less like moss on the backside. A tough possession type guy whom if presented w/ a single corner wins that batle all day.

 

[Keegs]

I honestly don't think that McDoogle is strong enough to hold the entire team back.

He is a pretty skinny guy. Those football players are big people.

 

[Rob0729]

Funny, I thought McDaniels called a brilliant game against Jacksonville and has outstanding second half adjustments against the Chargers. People are going overboard with their trashing of McDaniels.

I have always said that you should go back and rewatch a lot of the Weis coached games and see he isn't much different than McDaniels is now in a lot of areas. Weis had the benefit of a superior defense too. And you can't even argue that any of our post 2004 defenses were as remotely as good as the 2003 (which is arguably the best defense in Patriots history and one of the best of all time) or 2004 defense or even the 2001 defense.

People seem to always want to blame McDaniels for our shortcoming in the playoffs, but forget the simple rule - defense wins championships. The one common thread with our Super Bowl seasons were that we played superior defense for most of the stretch. We just haven't had anything better than an above average defense since Crennel left. I don't blame the coaching as much as some of our key players during the Super Bowl runs have either gotten old, injured, or both.

I'm sorry, but I cannot put the blame on one coach especially since there are circumstances in 2005 and 2006 season that were clearly out of McDaniels' control. He did not turn over the ball five times against the Broncos and the OC is not responsible for fumbles no matter what especially when two of them occur on special teams. He was not responsible for figuring out how to cover Dallas Clark vs. the Colts. The only playoff loss that you can even assign a large portion of the blame was this past Super Bowl.

 

[JoeSixPat]

How many times will you assert the already disproven "Stallworth deep ball" argument?

How was it disproven that Stallworth was used as a deep threat when just 4 passes in excess of 20 yards were thrown to Stallworth all season?

Just 4.

That might seem like a lot to you but let's compare that to Reche Caldwell in 2006.

Do you know how many times plays were called sending him deep?

4 times. Yup just 4.

So unless you think Reche Caldwell was used as a deep threat, I don't think you can argue against those facts.

Now the difference here is that Reche Caldwell isn't anywhere near as skilled a deep threat WR as Stallworth. And yet McDaniels didn't use Stallworth - coming off a 19 ypc average season - as any more of a deep threat then Caldwell.

Heck - if McDaniel had both Moss and Jerry Rice in his prime on his team I've got no reason to believe he'd send any more deep passes Rice's way than he did with Stallworth. And that would be slightly concerning to me (but not to you.)

I'm sure you're going to assert that having Stallworth catch a 10 yard pass and run for 30 yards after the catch makes him a deep threat. But of course, Maroney had a few of those too and there's not too many people around here that would assert our RB is a deep threat WR. That's just an area where you and I have to disagree.

 

[Rob0729]

I'd give Tom Brady and Randy Moss a little credit too.

Am I the only person who noticed a trend as the season wore on? That games were getting closer and the offense wasn't as dominant and that Defenses were adapting by draping Moss in coverage and McDaniels was not responding?

I guess the question to ask is whether the Patriots went 18-1...

a. ...thanks to McDaniels
b. ...in spite of McDaniels or
c. ...with no adverse or positive impact from McDaniels.

If one answers b or c then there's a reason for legitimate concern.

Personally my take on how Defenses schemed the Patriots gets back to McDaniels' use of Stallworth.

Early on in the season teams feared what having two major deep threats could do to them. Stallworth was coming off a season in which he proved he was a major threat at 19 ypc. They double covered Moss at their own peril, expecting that McDaniels would simply make Stallworth a deep threat who would burn them.

Over time teams learned that McDaniels had no intention of using Stallworth as a deep threat, even if they devoted an extra man (or two) to Moss. That limited Moss' effectiveness later in the season with Brady having to force passes to him.

There were a couple of times where I thought McDaniels "got it" and began sending Stallwroth deep - the Dallas game and the Baltimore game especially - but he never used Stallworth deep consistently enough to make a difference in Defensive gameplanning.

I blame Stallworth for the use of Stallworth. There was a strong rumor wind that he was demoted to 4th WR because he struggled with the playbook. It is the player's responsibility to know the playbook. Not the OC. I got slammed in the preseason because I suggested Stallworth did not see the practice field because he had trouble with the playbook. It looks like why he was not used more as a deep threat.

I also blame Brady too as much as I would blame McDaniels. Brady has admitted at times to go to Moss when it wasn't a play designed for him. Brady did something he has never done and gotten too overly reliant on one player. If McDaniels deserves blame, then so does Brady. Personally, I think I give them both very minor credit for anything bad for the offense this season.

 

[Rob0729]

How was it disproven that Stallworth was used as a deep threat when just 4 passes in excess of 20 yards were thrown to Stallworth all season?

Just 4.

That might seem like a lot to you but let's compare that to Reche Caldwell in 2006.

Do you know how many times plays were called sending him deep?

4 times. Yup just 4.

So unless you think Reche Caldwell was used as a deep threat, I don't think you can argue against those facts.

Now the difference here is that Reche Caldwell isn't anywhere near as skilled a deep threat WR as Stallworth. And yet McDaniels didn't use Stallworth - coming off a 19 ypc average season - as any more of a deep threat then Caldwell.

Heck - if McDaniel had both Moss and Jerry Rice in his prime on his team I've got no reason to believe he'd send any more deep passes Rice's way than he did with Stallworth. And that would be slightly concerning to me (but not to you.)

I'm sure you're going to assert that having Stallworth catch a 10 yard pass and run for 30 yards after the catch makes him a deep threat. But of course, Maroney had a few of those too and there's not too many people around here that would assert our RB is a deep threat WR. That's just an area where you and I have to disagree.

Again, is this McDaniels' fault or Stallworth's. Besides, he averaged 15.2 YPC which is more than any other year of his career except for his one year in Philly and in 2003. 2003 was skewed because he only caught 25 balls and made three starts.

So exactly how is Stallworth misused when he is getting more YPC than his career average?

 

[Deus Irae]

How was it disproven that Stallworth was used as a deep threat when just 4 passes in excess of 20 yards were thrown to Stallworth all season?

Just 4.

That might seem like a lot to you but let's compare that to Reche Caldwell in 2006.

Do you know how many times plays were called sending him deep?

4 times. Yup just 4.

So unless you think Reche Caldwell was used as a deep threat, I don't think you can argue against those facts.

Now the difference here is that Reche Caldwell isn't anywhere near as skilled a deep threat WR as Stallworth. And yet McDaniels didn't use Stallworth - coming off a 19 ypc average season - as any more of a deep threat then Caldwell.

Heck - if McDaniel had both Moss and Jerry Rice in his prime on his team I've got no reason to believe he'd send any more deep passes Rice's way than he did with Stallworth. And that would be slightly concerning to me (but not to you.)

I'm sure you're going to assert that having Stallworth catch a 10 yard pass and run for 30 yards after the catch makes him a deep threat. But of course, Maroney had a few of those too and there's not too many people around here that would assert our RB is a deep threat WR. That's just an area where you and I have to disagree.

Disagree all you want. You argued this same thing on another thread. The numbers proved you to be wrong.

 

[alvinnf]

Funny, I thought McDaniels called a brilliant game against Jacksonville and has outstanding second half adjustments against the Chargers. People are going overboard with their trashing of McDaniels.
Brilliant, They were droppin 7,8, or 9 and playing all coverage brady just sat there and picked em apart. As for SD the Offense was'nt clickn at all, they were lucky that Maroney was effective those last 9 mins or that was a game they could have easily lost.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I blame Stallworth for the use of Stallworth. There was a strong rumor wind that he was demoted to 4th WR because he struggled with the playbook. It is the player's responsibility to know the playbook. Not the OC. I got slammed in the preseason because I suggested Stallworth did not see the practice field because he had trouble with the playbook. It looks like why he was not used more as a deep threat.

I also blame Brady too as much as I would blame McDaniels. Brady has admitted at times to go to Moss when it wasn't a play designed for him. Brady did something he has never done and gotten too overly reliant on one player. If McDaniels deserves blame, then so does Brady. Personally, I think I give them both very minor credit for anything bad for the offense this season.

If an OC has players with proven deep skills (Stallworth in 2006) and refuses to call a play that will stretch the field and give Randy Moss some breathing space, then I blame the OC.

If an OC isn't telling Brady that focusing solely on Moss as a deep threat is hurting the team - then again, I blame the OC for not having any control over his offense.

Of course Belichick bears responsibility there too, which is the only thing that stops me from calling for McDaniel's head - but it doesn't stop me from arguing that Stallworth could have and should have been used more as a deep threat.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

16-0

#1 scoring offense in NFL history


Next question

SUPERBOWL LOSS...

No other questions needed.

 

[PonyExpress]

McDaniels' hard work has helped this team to 3 very successful seasons. OTOH, you can argue that his ongoing maturation process has cost this team possibly 3 SB titles.

I blame offensive playcalling/scheming/in game management for each of the playoff losses since '05.

That said, I see no better option available, and have no second guesses about the hire. He is clearly an innovative, dedicated guy who just seems a bit overwhelmed on the big stage.

Hopefully he won't be shellshocked going forward after the recent debacle.