Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys...

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Just curious-in your opinions, how much do you think Weis and Crenell are missed on this coaching staff?

Just asking b/c way back when my Dallas team won 3/4 Super Bowls in as many years, we had a VERY, VERY, VERY good assistant coaching staff. Norv Turner, Dave Wanstedt, and Butch Davis(despite being noble failures as HCs) were BRILLIANT game planners. However-once our coaching staff disentegrated over the years, it was pretty much the end of everything(forget that Jerry became a control freak, sold his soul to Deion, etc, etc).

Anyhow-hope you guys don't think I'm trying to rub things in the wrong way, but in your opinions, have you felt the same way since Weis and Crenell left? Nothing against McDaniels, but Weis, IMHO, would have called screens to death against those non-stop Giants blitzes. And for that matter too in that '06 reg season game against the Colts, I was surprised by the 50 or so pass plays McDaniels called in 30 degree weather against the worst-ranked run D(Weis would have called just as many run plays and play action passes).

With that being said-you fans here should have alot to be proud of since Belichick took over. The Pats should continue to be contenders next year and years to come.

BTW-as long as the Celtics don't eat the cheese, they'll likely win the NBA Title.

 

[fgssand]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

Just curious-in your opinions, how much do you think Weis and Crenell are missed on this coaching staff?

Just asking b/c way back when my Dallas team won 3/4 Super Bowls in as many years, we had a VERY, VERY, VERY good assistant coaching staff. Norv Turner, Dave Wanstedt, and Butch Davis(despite being noble failures as HCs) were BRILLIANT game planners. However-once our coaching staff disentegrated over the years, it was pretty much the end of everything(forget that Jerry became a control freak, sold his soul to Deion, etc, etc).

Anyhow-hope you guys don't think I'm trying to rub things in the wrong way, but in your opinions, have you felt the same way since Weis and Crenell left? Nothing against McDaniels, but Weis, IMHO, would have called screens to death against those non-stop Giants blitzes. And for that matter too in that '06 reg season game against the Colts, I was surprised by the 50 or so pass plays McDaniels called in 30 degree weather against the worst-ranked run D(Weis would have called just as many run plays and play action passes).

With that being said-you fans here should have alot to be proud of since Belichick took over. The Pats should continue to be contenders next year and years to come.

BTW-as long as the Celtics don't eat the cheese, they'll likely win the NBA Title.

I would like to see more experienced coaches over on the offense side of things to give young McD a boost - I sure do believe Weiss would have mixed things up in SB 42 to give 'em a fighting chance of beating that all out blitz.

If Pees can have a Capers to help him out - why not bring in an astute offensive mind to help out Josh?

Now that Caserio is back over in Pioli's world and replaced with a very young WR coach named Bill O'brien, there is very little in the way of veteran coaching over there. Sure, old and tireless Scarneccia is there, but he is content with coaching nothing but the O line. Then you have Mangurian & Fears & that's all folks.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

DTF - I lived in Dallas ('92-'95) during those seasons. Jimmy J assembled a great organization, incl. assistants; but Jerry J wanted to be given more of the credit, esp. when he would get drunk and start running his (pre-plastic sturgery) yap.

Unfortunately, the SB proved that Skippy was/is not ready for prime time. Once it became clear that the jints were not going to roll over and play dead, the Pats began performing like Mike Tyson vs. Buster Douglas, i.e. no adjustments, no answers.

Perhaps this loss will be a learning experience for BB/McD/TB/the OL, and everyone will be wiser, and more resolute, for it. But what a terrible, terrible way to have to learn a simple lesson, which really should have been learned, and mastered, already.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

I would like to see more experienced coaches over on the offense side of things to give young McD a boost - I sure do believe Weiss would have mixed things up in SB 42 to give 'em a fighting chance of beating that all out blitz.

If Pees can have a Capers to help him out - why not bring in an astute offensive mind to help out Josh?

Now that Caserio is back over in Pioli's world and replaced with a very young WR coach named Bill O'brien, there is very little in the way of veteran coaching over there. Sure, old and tireless Scarneccia is there, but he is content with coaching nothing but the O line. Then you have Mangurian & Fears & that's all folks.

Umm. . . .
(A) Caserio = 32, O'Brien = 38.
(B) Caserio's years coaching = ~1, O'Brien's years coaching = ~15.

So they did get Josh some veteran help.

 

[kolbitr]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

Just curious-in your opinions, how much do you think Weis and Crenell are missed on this coaching staff?

I have thought that those two have been missed badly since the 2005 season, but perhaps for a slightly different reason. BB is a football genius, and a brilliant tactician at every phase of the game...but he is also super-intense, paranoid, cerebral, and arrogant (and I write this with great respect and admiration). My hunch is that RAC and Charlie provided an essential buffer and check for Belichick, both in terms of strategy and personalities. Weis was famously fiery and coarse, and RAC was a tough yet paternal coach--both were beloved by the guys, yet also respected by BB for their football acumen. Unlike some of these younger guys that have been run through here in the past few years, both men had decades of experience and success.

Cowboys fans will (and should) always wonder "what if" concerning the JJs.

[The situations are not identical, thankfully, but in my mind 2005 post-SB was one heartbreak after another for Patriots fans...the departure of both assistant coaches...Tedy's stroke...Ted Johnson's retirement...Rodney's knee injury...and finally the loss to Denver...]

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

Just curious-in your opinions, how much do you think Weis and Crenell are missed on this coaching staff?

Just asking b/c way back when my Dallas team won 3/4 Super Bowls in as many years, we had a VERY, VERY, VERY good assistant coaching staff. Norv Turner, Dave Wanstedt, and Butch Davis(despite being noble failures as HCs) were BRILLIANT game planners. However-once our coaching staff disentegrated over the years, it was pretty much the end of everything(forget that Jerry became a control freak, sold his soul to Deion, etc, etc).

Anyhow-hope you guys don't think I'm trying to rub things in the wrong way, but in your opinions, have you felt the same way since Weis and Crenell left? Nothing against McDaniels, but Weis, IMHO, would have called screens to death against those non-stop Giants blitzes. And for that matter too in that '06 reg season game against the Colts, I was surprised by the 50 or so pass plays McDaniels called in 30 degree weather against the worst-ranked run D(Weis would have called just as many run plays and play action passes).

With that being said-you fans here should have alot to be proud of since Belichick took over. The Pats should continue to be contenders next year and years to come.

BTW-as long as the Celtics don't eat the cheese, they'll likely win the NBA Title.

I definitely agree that Crennel and Weis are both missed. When they left, I thought that Weis would be missed far more, because I think I (like many others) undervalued Crennel, thinking that it was just Belichick's D anyways. In hindsight, I think we might miss home more though.

As much as I hate Mangini, and as much as he sucks as a HC, I do think that losing him hurt as a lot too. You can't argue with the results that he got as secondary coach and DC.

 

[homerpatsfan]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

it is amazing how well we've done without those guys! says something about our head coach.it is what it is. no excuses from him. very proud of this team

 

[castlelong1]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

I admit I became a Notre Dame and Cleveland sort of fan in 2005.

That said, we lost continuity then (and with Mangini's defection.)I too think Weiss would have screened the Giants to death. He did not do well at Notre Dame, but that has more to do with recruiting.

 

[alvinnf]

Knowing how to call an NFL game is an art, charlie was one of the best at it. Hopefully J.M. can improve in that area. The defense seems fine, they had a franchise record for points allowed, 2 years ago DP first year. This year did'nt appear to be as good, although they managed to be better when it counted most. 17 pts in the SB was a great job,although I think it was rather obvious that BB was over there helping that side of the ball. Unfortunately that left JM unsupervized. 14 pts is a joke, period.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

RAC and Charlie were less involved in scheme than the present crew. Bill tapped outside sources for his wrinkles, like Saban before SB 36. What the present crew may lack is fire. But short of tearing his Oline a new one - which he likely would have done... there was nothing schematically Charlie could have done to mitigate their abyssmal performance in this Superbowl. They got run over. We tried screens, they got whacked too. When the opposition is collapsing the pocket and not just rushing from the edges nothing much works. I've seen some say Charlie would have rolled Brady out more. Thing is Tom doesn't like that, it's not his comfort zone, and he was playing with a bad ankle and reportedly through another sports hernia. People forget we only activated 2 TE's, Bill's decision, and apparently neither of them was healthy - and it showed. Faulk was lost for a couple of series with what looked like a hammie. Maroney was returning kicks because of injury - so pounding the rock was never a viable option in the game plan. Besides for those who haven't noticed, he's not Corey Dillon circa 2004. Bill was busy coaching up his front 7 so they wouldn't give up 34. I bet he never imagined Spagnano would get the pressure he did in the re-match, nor did he likely imagine his pro bowl studded OL would have their collective period on the biggest night of the season. You know, the TD pass from Brady to Patton in XXXVI wasn't Charlie's call, it was Bill who changed that call to an out and up based on his earlier observation when the same base call resulted in an incomplete. Maybe Bill's eyes on offense would have helped Josh figure something out, but McDaniels isn't the problem any more than Charlie (or RAC) was in 2002. Pees on the other hand may not even be a stand alone game day DC in Bill's defense. If he were then Bill could have spent most of the second quarter tearing Scarnechia's crew a new one.

And yet in the end we were a couple of plays not made on D away from winning that game. RAC can't make plays for guys either. I think a lot of folks here have selective memory and would benefit from reviewing our performance under Charlie and RAC in the 2003 playoffs entirely and the 2005 Superbowl... There were times in Charlie's tenure when we couldn't make a first down to save our souls, and there were continual calls for his head. Just like at times we couldn't make a late stop on D though our very playoff lives seemed to depend on it. Thankfully we either made just enough plays on one side of the ball or another (or on ST) or our opposition seemingly refused to often after being given given ample opportunity to...to develop this fairy tale fanboy mentality that blames failure to execute on...coordinators. Bill and each of his staffs have always put these players in a position to win (with the possible exception of 2005-06 when they were sorely under manned due to unforseen absences, injuries and defections) when they just do their job and execute the game plan. Defensively execution was inconsistent in the first and fourth quarters vs. the Giants, and on offense the entire Oline was MIA for most of the game. They were overmatched physically and mentally - which makes deviating from a carefully constructed and practiced game plan realistically the last thing likely to succeed. Ergo, the game plan became a battle of wills in which we waited each other out. The real killer in hindsight was probably that first sustained drive by the Giants which took almost 10 minutes off ten clock Cut that TOP in half and/or stop them outside of FG range and...

BTW you just gotta love how Dante gets a lifetime pass when coaching in this game is dissected...LOL

 

[fgssand]

Re: Hey Pats fans, a question for you guys.....

Umm. . . .
(A) Caserio = 32, O'Brien = 38.
(B) Caserio's years coaching = ~1, O'Brien's years coaching = ~15.

So they did get Josh some veteran help.

Young in terms of NFL experience.....take another look:

Caserio - been in the NE system since 2001 as position coach & mostly with Pioli.

O'Brien - This will be his FIRST year in the NFL as a position coach and only his 2nd year in the NFL at all.... experienced???

Please don't miss the point I was trying tomake....that is that we could sure use veteran, experienced coaching assistance to help with offensive game planning, adjustments and game day decisions.

Look at our defensive coaching talent & experience and give me some of what they have going on, please.

 

[alvinnf]

RAC and Charlie were less involved in scheme than the present crew. Bill tapped outside sources for his wrinkles, like Saban before SB 36. What the present crew may lack is fire. But short of tearing his Oline a new one - which he likely would have done... there was nothing schematically Charlie could have done to mitigate their abyssmal performance in this Superbowl. They got run over. We tried screens, they got whacked too. When the opposition is collapsing the pocket and not just rushing from the edges nothing much works. I've seen some say Charlie would have rolled Brady out more. Thing is Tom doesn't like that, it's not his comfort zone, and he was playing with a bad ankle and reportedly through another sports hernia. People forget we only activated 2 TE's, Bill's decision, and apparently neither of them was healthy - and it showed. Faulk was lost for a couple of series with what looked like a hammie. Maroney was returning kicks because of injury - so pounding the rock was never a viable option in the game plan. Besides for those who haven't noticed, he's not Corey Dillon circa 2004. Bill was busy coaching up his front 7 so they wouldn't give up 34. I bet he never imagined Spagnano would get the pressure he did in the re-match, nor did he likely imagine his pro bowl studded OL would have their collective period on the biggest night of the season. You know, the TD pass from Brady to Patton in XXXVI wasn't Charlie's call, it was Bill who changed that call to an out and up based on his earlier observation when the same base call resulted in an incomplete. Maybe Bill's eyes on offense would have helped Josh figure something out, but McDaniels isn't the problem any more than Charlie (or RAC) was in 2002. Pees on the other hand may not even be a stand alone game day DC in Bill's defense. If he were then Bill could have spent most of the second quarter tearing Scarnechia's crew a new one.

And yet in the end we were a couple of plays not made on D away from winning that game. RAC can't make plays for guys either. I think a lot of folks here have selective memory and would benefit from reviewing our performance under Charlie and RAC in the 2003 playoffs entirely and the 2005 Superbowl... There were times in Charlie's tenure when we couldn't make a first down to save our souls, and there were continual calls for his head. Just like at times we couldn't make a late stop on D though our very playoff lives seemed to depend on it. Thankfully we either made just enough plays on one side of the ball or another (or on ST) or our opposition seemingly refused to often after being given given ample opportunity to...to develop this fairy tale fanboy mentality that blames failure to execute on...coordinators. Bill and each of his staffs have always put these players in a position to win (with the possible exception of 2005-06 when they were sorely under manned due to unforseen absences, injuries and defections) when they just do their job and execute the game plan. Defensively execution was inconsistent in the first and fourth quarters vs. the Giants, and on offense the entire Oline was MIA for most of the game. They were overmatched physically and mentally - which makes deviating from a carefully constructed and practiced game plan realistically the last thing likely to succeed. Ergo, the game plan became a battle of wills in which we waited each other out. The real killer in hindsight was probably that first sustained drive by the Giants which took almost 10 minutes off ten clock Cut that TOP in half and/or stop them outside of FG range and...

BTW you just gotta love how Dante gets a lifetime pass when coaching in this game is dissected...LOL

Oh yeah, the giants just wanted it more. You know the reality is when you score 38 points on someone 4 weeks prior, you should'nt just expect the same looks the same production. Everything the offensive staff or the coaches in general, did in the SB was reactionary, 14 pts. NUFF SAID!!!

 

[NEPatriot]

Oh yeah, the giants just wanted it more. You know the reality is when you score 38 points on someone 4 weeks prior, you should'nt just expect the same looks the same production. Everything the offensive staff or the coaches in general, did in the SB was reactionary, 14 pts. NUFF SAID!!!

The LOWEST score ever in 07.! When we faced dolphin second time, we scored more than that.! If you took this score, we would win a SB game. Everybody knew how good Dolphin was.

This is one thing which I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND.

 

[alvinnf]

I actually feel that the offensive line has been unfairly criticized for the game. Did they play great no, but let just say the giants learned more than we did after the regular season finale. Oh yeah i forgot the giants were playing superhuman after that, rejuvenated, blah blah blah. Yeah we got outplayed, don't take anything away from the g men, but we were were vastly more outcoached than outplayed. It's not like a different team stepped off the bus.