Pats show interest in two more CB prospects...

[Seneschal2]

Well, further interest in Cason, and new interest in Jack Williams. Previously, Cason was listed as having a Combine interview and private visit. Now it's reported that he has also had a private workout:

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Patriots | Cason to visit in April
Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:27:27 -0700 J.J. Pesavento, of Next Level Scouting, reports University of Arizona CB Antoine Cason has had a private workout with the New England Patriots and will visit the team in April.

Patriots | J. Williams has private workout scheduled
Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:58:14 -0700
J.J. Pesavento, of Next Level Scouting, reports Kent State CB Jack Williams has a private workout scheduled with the New England Patriots.

 

[Seneschal2]

Don't know how we missed this (dated 3/16), but here's the original source for Cason's workout:

http://www.kffl.com/player/16706/nfl/news

Patriots | Team expected to workout Cason - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:44:50 -0700
John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots were expected to work out University of Arizona CB Antoine Cason Sunday, March 16, at Arizona's campus, according to a source.

Side note: Cason is far and away ahead of the 14 CB prospects the Pats have reportedly shown interest in. He was interviewed at the Combine, worked out, and is scheduled to visit. Of course, the pre-draft workouts and visits continue, and more CBs may join him.

As most know, he's my favorite CB among the top ranked. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing for so much interest to be expressed. Either way, he's the one player I'm hoping for in the trade down.

 

[dryheat44]

I'll tell ya, the choice between taking DRC in the first round or taking Jack Williams in the fourth is really no choice at all. Opposite ends of the value spectrum right now.

 

[alvinnf]

I'll tell ya, the choice between taking DRC in the first round or taking Jack Williams in the fourth is really no choice at all. Opposite ends of the value spectrum right now.

What does this mean?

 

[dryheat44]

What does this mean?

That we have two cornerback prospects who played in lesser conferences. Based on height and last name (and supposedly the Scouting Combine), one has been discussed as being worthy of the #7 overall pick. The other one, whose performance at the Combine was better almost across the board, can probably be had in the fourth round. Which is the better value?

Domininque Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee St 6-2 184 4.33 (1.49, 2.51) Bench 17 Vert 38.5 Long 11.06 Broad 10 11 Short 4.14 3Cone 6.63

Jack Williams Kent St 5-9 177 4.32 (1.47, 2.53) Vert 41 Bench 18 Broad 10 6 Short 4.21 3C 6.61

 

[mike100915]

I really like Antoine Cason a whole lot. His has gone a bit under the radar in most mock drafts. He could very easily be the best corner in this draft. If the Patriots could walkout of day one with Vernon Gholston and Antoine Cason, I think that would be the best scenrio possible.

 

[Seneschal2]

I'll tell ya, the choice between taking DRC in the first round or taking Jack Williams in the fourth is really no choice at all. Opposite ends of the value spectrum right now.

Assuming you mean Williams is the better value -- I agree. Not only is he a really good 'football player', the Pats DC Dean Pees, recruited him at Kent St.

Prior to joining the Patriots in '04, Pees spent six seasons as the head coach at Kent State ('98-'03). Williams' freshman year was '03; he was redshirted...and was named Outstanding Defensive Scout by the coaching staff. I would think -- Pees remembers. Imagine recruited a player on the college level, then plugging him into your defense on the NFL level -- must be quite a thrill as a 35-year coaching veteran (goosebumps).

And for those concerned by Williams lack of height (5' 9"), he was just timed at 4.32 and 4.33 at his Pro Day. Wouldn't mind that speed in the Pats sub-packages.

Even if we draft a CB early, I'd still strongly consider guys like Williams and Wheatley later on in the draft. Knowing Belichick -- he can't have enough CBs.

 

[alvinnf]

If neither can play, neither have value.... DRC is the classic late riser prospect, I honestly think he is a risky proposition. Lets just say four corners get taken in the 1st, more than likely only 2 of them will be good pros, one of those two a pro bowl type player. Of those four names the one that scares me most is DRC. Would I value wasting the fourth round pick over the first round pick, hell yeah! This years crop of CB's is loaded which a nice way of saying no one player has distinguished themselves.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There's a big difference between drafting a fast, short, nickelback and drafting a #1 corner type talent. That's why Williams will be available in the 4th round instead of the 1st. I know a lot of guys here harbor an anti-DRC sentiment, but it's ridiculous to keep bringing up these 4th rounders to try to knock him down. I don't see any of that venom directed towards guys like McKelvin, Jenkins, Talib, Cason, Flowers, etc. who all also rate 1st round grades. So why all the hate for DRC?

Assuming you mean Williams is the better value -- I agree. Not only is he a really good 'football player', the Pats DC Dean Pees, recruited him at Kent St.

Prior to joining the Patriots in '04, Pees spent six seasons as the head coach at Kent State ('98-'03). Williams' freshman year was '03; he was redshirted...and was named Outstanding Defensive Scout by the coaching staff. I would think -- Pees remembers. Imagine recruited a player on the college level, then plugging him into your defense on the NFL level -- must be quite a thrill as a 35-year coaching veteran (goosebumps).

And for those concerned by Williams lack of height (5' 9"), he was just timed at 4.32 and 4.33 at his Pro Day. Wouldn't mind that speed in the Pats sub-packages.

Even if we draft a CB early, I'd still strongly consider guys like Williams and Wheatley later on in the draft. Knowing Belichick -- he can't have enough CBs.

 

[kas]

That 41 inch vert by Williams is very impressive. That's how you can get by as a short corner in this league. He could be a nice mid round pick for the pats

 

[BradyToMoss]

That we have two cornerback prospects who played in lesser conferences. Based on height and last name (and supposedly the Scouting Combine), one has been discussed as being worthy of the #7 overall pick. The other one, whose performance at the Combine was better almost across the board, can probably be had in the fourth round. Which is the better value?

Domininque Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee St 6-2 184 4.33 (1.49, 2.51) Bench 17 Vert 38.5 Long 11.06 Broad 10 11 Short 4.14 3Cone 6.63

Jack Williams Kent St 5-9 177 4.32 (1.47, 2.53) Vert 41 Bench 18 Broad 10 6 Short 4.21 3C 6.61

Because based on game tape and a dominating Senior Bowl performance against top caliber competition, one guy, DRC will be the 1st corner off the board next month and greatness awaits. Dryheat, honestly, I'm not sure what you have against this guy, but you are the only one that apparently doesn't think DRC will end up being a shutdown stud in this league. You are on an island with this thinking. I will throw you a life jacket, it's time to submit and swim to shore.

I told you last month (when he was a projected mid 2nd round pick), that DRC will climb draft boards and will be a top 10 pick. I was laughed at last month when I predicted this and posted it, but it's happening as we speak. He's tall, he's athletically in his own stratosphere, he highpoints any ball in his area code, he closes on square outs faster than anyone I've ever seen since Deion and in the open field after he picks off a pass, grab your popcorn and enjoy the festivities, it's showtime. I think these recent McKelvin infatuation reports coming out of Gillete are fodder, just plain fodder with tons of smoke. DRC is the guy they are targeting and don't be shocked if you hear his name called to wear Patriot blue.

 

[dryheat44]

There's a big difference between drafting a fast, short, nickelback and drafting a #1 corner type talent. That's why Williams will be available in the 4th round instead of the 1st. I know a lot of guys here harbor an anti-DRC sentiment, but it's ridiculous to keep bringing up these 4th rounders to try to knock him down. I don't see any of that venom directed towards guys like McKelvin, Jenkins, Talib, Cason, Flowers, etc. who all also rate 1st round grades. So why all the hate for DRC?

Kind of a silly comparison, isn't it? Cason, Talib, Flowers, etc are thought of as players because of what they've done on the field.

Rodgers-Cromartie is thought of as a player because of his elite athleticism and his last name.

Not hate, so much, but just an opinion that he is being WAY overvalued by some on this board because he can run fast, jump high, and is Antonio's cousin.

I'd be okay if the Patriots got him in the third round....very disappointed if they get him in the top 20 picks.

 

[dryheat44]

Because based on game tape and a dominating Senior Bowl performance against top caliber competition, one guy, DRC will be the 1st corner off the board next month and greatness awaits. Dryheat, honestly, I'm not sure what you have against this guy, but you are the only one that apparently doesn't think DRC will end up being a shutdown stud in this league. You are on an island with this thinking. I will throw you a life jacket, it's time to submit and swim to shore.

I told you last month (when he was a projected mid 2nd round pick), that DRC will climb draft boards and will be a top 10 pick. I was laughed at last month when I predicted this and posted it, but it's happening as we speak. He's tall, he's athletically in his own stratosphere, he highpoints any ball in his area code, he closes on square outs faster than anyone I've ever seen since Deion and in the open field after he picks off a pass, grab your popcorn and enjoy the festivities, it's showtime. I think these recent McKelvin infatuation reports coming out of Gillete are fodder, just plain fodder with tons of smoke. DRC is the guy they are targeting and don't be shocked if you hear his name called to wear Patriot blue.

And, like I did last month, I'm still calling bullsh!t on you, because I seriously doubt you've seen one game film on DRC, and most draft "experts" haven't either. That doesn't stop you from throwing out Deion comparisons, though.

You might be right, and he could be a high first round pick, but it will be by a team that's stupid in personnel matters. You think Belichick is going to take DRC's track skills over two years of on-field production by Flowers, Talib, Cason, etc? I don't.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Like I said, I've never based my evaluation off his last name, but you keep bringing that up like a broken record. As for DRC lasting to the 3rd round... LOL. Keep living in that fantasy world if you really believe that's gonna happen. Maybe Gholston should also be a 3rd round pick because "all he has" is the ability to run fast, jump high, and move with explosive quickness, but I think he'll be a 1st round pick. Go ahead and call me crazy, but that's how I think most NFL teams will rate him.

Not hate, so much, but just an opinion that he is being WAY overvalued by some on this board because he can run fast, jump high, and is Antonio's cousin.

I'd be okay if the Patriots got him in the third round....very disappointed if they get him in the top 20 picks.

 

[dryheat44]

Like I said, I've never based my evaluation off his last name, but you keep bringing that up like a broken record. As for DRC lasting to the 3rd round... LOL. Keep living in that fantasy world if you really believe that's gonna happen. Maybe Gholston should also be a 3rd round pick because "all he has" is the ability to run fast, jump high, and move with explosive quickness, but I think he'll be a 1st round pick. Go ahead and call me crazy, but that's how I think most NFL teams will rate him.

No, I don't think DRC will last into the third round. He probably won't last to the second round. Mike Mamula went sixth or seventh one year. There will always be somebody who falls in love with athleticism. I just don't know why people think that all of the sudden Belichick is going to be one of them.

I don't understand your point about Gholston. Do you think I'd advocate him because of what he did at the Combine? I wouldn't care if he ran a 4.8 and had a 20 inch vertical. I watched him terrorize the Big 10 for two seasons. I watched Cason and Flowers shut down opposing WRs, which is why I don't care what Flowers ran. I watched Chris Long dominate every offensive lineman he went up against.

What is DRC being evaluated on? And would he be a first round possibility if his name was Dominique Rodgers, as it was back in September?

Those are rhetorical questions. You've answered them before. And my feelings on the subject are also well known, so I'll try once again not to get pulled into the DRC threads.

 

[BradyManny]

Worth mentioning here for the DRC related talk.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=80138

I started a thread with some detailed stats re: corner's completion % against and average yard per attempt from nfldraftscout.com.

 

[patchick]

I'd be delighted to have DRC on the Patriots. Pleased as punch. He has enormous potential, a sky-high ceiling. But he would be a wildly risky use of the highest draft pick the Pats have seen in ages. You just can't commit that kind of money to such a raw prospect unless he is a one of the 3 rarest commodities in the NFL: QB, LT or monster pass rusher.

Just for the heck of it, I'll toss in a random prediction that the Patriots will draft 2 of the following 6 CBs:

Antoine Cason
Brandon Flowers
Chevis Jackson
Jack Williams
Terence Wheatley
Brandon Carr

Please note that I have never, ever correctly predicted a Pats DB selection. I am not to be trusted.

 

[BradyToMoss]

And, like I did last month, I'm still calling bullsh!t on you, because I seriously doubt you've seen one game film on DRC, and most draft "experts" haven't either. That doesn't stop you from throwing out Deion comparisons, though.

You might be right, and he could be a high first round pick, but it will be by a team that's stupid in personnel matters. You think Belichick is going to take DRC's track skills over two years of on-field production by Flowers, Talib, Cason, etc? I don't.

TSU doesn't flood the airwaves on Saturdays in the Fall. But what I did do was view his posted game film from a scouting site which displayed his 2 - pick 6's this season, which if you watched him run (both were long) you saw how he was a man playing amongst boys. Like I mentioned, I watched the entire Senior Bowl, 3 plays he made were bona-fide (day one starter) type NFL plays. The high-pointed deep pick (which they now feature on the NFLN btw, #4 is DRC for those who witness it), the break up on the sideline out and the open field square up tackle, the first two being legit NFL-ready plays. I'm not a scout, but I've watched football for 30 years, I watched Deion while at FSU and I watched him busting punts and weaving his way through traffic like people were statues, witnessing that kind of dominance is what I'm witnessing with DRC, my eyes aren't fooling me. I'm predicting that he will be better than his cousin, and I say this simply because of his elite speed and incredible ball skills. I've watched every thing that a person like me can possibly watch on DRC, because that's all that's available to me as a basic internet person like everyone else here, believe me, I've searched on his game tape. Look, it's fine if you're not sold, but I'm sold, Mel Kiper Jr. is sold as are many, many talent evaluators and the proof will soon come when he suits up for that lucky team that gets to enjoy his services for the next 5 years on his rookie contract. I'm hoping that lucky team is us.

 

[dryheat44]

TSU doesn't flood the airwaves on Saturdays in the Fall. But what I did do was view his posted game film from a scouting site which displayed his 2 - pick 6's this season, which if you watched him run (both were long) you saw how he was a man playing amongst boys. Like I mentioned, I watched the entire Senior Bowl, 3 plays he made were bona-fide (day one starter) type NFL plays. The high-pointed deep pick (which they now feature on the NFLN btw, #4 is DRC for those who witness it), the break up on the sideline out and the open field square up tackle, the first two being legit NFL-ready plays. I'm not a scout, but I've watched football for 30 years, I watched Deion while at FSU and I watched him busting punts and weaving his way through traffic like people were statues, witnessing that kind of dominance is what I'm witnessing with DRC, my eyes aren't fooling me. I'm predicting that he will be better than his cousin, and I say this simply because of his elite speed and incredible ball skills. I've watched every thing that a person like me can possibly watch on DRC, because that's all that's available to me as a basic internet person like everyone else here, believe me, I've searched on his game tape. Look, it's fine if you're not sold, but I'm sold, Mel Kiper Jr. is sold as are many, many talent evaluators and the proof will soon come when he suits up for that lucky team that gets to enjoy his services for the next 5 years on his rookie contract. I'm hoping that lucky team is us.

Fair enough.

 

[sebman2112]

I'd be delighted to have DRC on the Patriots. Pleased as punch. He has enormous potential, a sky-high ceiling. But he would be a wildly risky use of the highest draft pick the Pats have seen in ages. You just can't commit that kind of money to such a raw prospect unless he is a one of the 3 rarest commodities in the NFL: QB, LT or monster pass rusher.

Just for the heck of it, I'll toss in a random prediction that the Patriots will draft 2 of the following 6 CBs:

Antoine Cason
Brandon Flowers
Chevis Jackson
Jack Williams
Terence Wheatley
Brandon Carr

Please note that I have never, ever correctly predicted a Pats DB selection. I am not to be trusted.

Since I really like Cason, Flowers, and Jackson, please refrain from trying to keep one or two of them off the Patriots 2008 NFL roster, devil women!