Is Terrell Suggs Worth the #7?

[mangenious]

We have/had a lot of players on this team that trash talk and do the same thing. Guys like Harrison, Vrabel, Colvin, and Hobbs have had their own trash talking incidents or at least have been caught on camera trash talking (or doing things like the Lights out Dance). A large number of defenders around the league trash talk. We have even seen Patriots players get into with the refs on calls too.

Rob the fact that you can at least admit that makes you one of my favorite posters on this board.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob the fact that you can at least admit that makes you one of my favorite posters on this board.

Thanks. I don't know if being a favorite of a Jets fan is a good thing or not though.

Who am I kidding? My overinflated ego and sense of self worth allows me to eat up any compliment whereever they come from.

 

[mangenious]

Thanks. I don't know if being a favorite of a Jets fan is a good thing or not though.

Who am I kidding? My overinflated ego and sense of self worth allows me to eat up any compliment whereever they come from.

lol, back to the point you made, every team has someone who is an a##hole and who may take cheap shots. When you have a guy like Suggs who is that young and that talented you look over those flaws. Suggs is not a Pacman Jones. I would never take Pacman ever jsut b/c I could never root for a clown like that

 

[Afterlifemobile-86]

You are a Jets fan. This is all that I need to know about your intelligence...

..........................

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I have no idea if the Pats are even interested in Suggs (I would have to think that they at least looked at the possibility though).

The Pats are going to have to shell out money for the rookies anyways... so, that is the least of their problems.

 

[sebman2112]

Rob the fact that you can at least admit that makes you one of my favorite posters on this board.

I think most Patriots fans realize members of the team, and every team in the league trash talk. It's simply become part of the game. Now, some teams have bigger a**holes than others, but that's for another convo.

Oh, and let's not forget Bryan Cox...

Back to this trade idea:

You would have to talk the Ravens into trading their franchise player away, when they would receive two first rounders as comp, if you were to sign him to an offer sheet. Obviously the Patriots would never give up two first rounders for Suggs (especially if one is the 7th overall pick), but I could possibly see NE wanting him for the 7th overall pick. The problem then becomes the contract in which you sign him to. From everything I've seen, he's not entirely interested in taking a discount to play for a winner, and believes he should receive a fairly substantial contract. So, the combination of giving up the seventh overall pick, and having to sign him to a large contract might be more than NE would be willing to give up.

Also, his contract wouldn't be all that similar to the player actually selected at 7th overall, as the initial cap hit would likely be far more substantial, and knowing Suggs, the full contract would be even richer, as well.

 

[Ring 6]

I think - big surprise - people here are being really naive. The Patriots would trade the #7 overall for Suggs IN A HEARTBEAT. It's just that the Ravens wouldn't.

I disagree 100%, and actually think your viewpoint is the naive one.
Suggs is a better player than you would expect you get at #7. In that vein, of course they would.
But you are missing an important part of the equation.
We would need to pay Suggs, and he will want 10mill a year.

If Suggs were released and a free agent, would you sign him for 10 mill a year. (Remember the Jets gave Pace 7 mill a year just on the hope that maybe he will be a lot better than he has been his whole career).
Do you think the Pats, with Vrabel and Thomas already at the position, would spend 10 mill a year on Suggs? Thats crazy to me.
Then for the right to pay him all that money, you have to hand over your #7 pick.

This wouldn't happen in a million years, and in fact, the Pats wouldn't do it for ANY compensation, because they wouldn't sign him off the open market for no compensation if they had to pay him that kind of money.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I disagree 100%, and actually think your viewpoint is the naive one.
Suggs is a better player than you would expect you get at #7. In that vein, of course they would.
But you are missing an important part of the equation.
We would need to pay Suggs, and he will want 10mill a year.

If Suggs were released and a free agent, would you sign him for 10 mill a year. (Remember the Jets gave Pace 7 mill a year just on the hope that maybe he will be a lot better than he has been his whole career).
Do you think the Pats, with Vrabel and Thomas already at the position, would spend 10 mill a year on Suggs? Thats crazy to me.
Then for the right to pay him all that money, you have to hand over your #7 pick.

This wouldn't happen in a million years, and in fact, the Pats wouldn't do it for ANY compensation, because they wouldn't sign him off the open market for no compensation if they had to pay him that kind of money.

Yeah, if anything... the Pats want players like Moss, and Dillon to trade for.

Good players that are sick of their current team.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, if anything... the Pats want players like Moss, and Dillon to trade for.

Good players that are sick of their current team.

But more importantly, do not cost $10mill a year

 

[patsox23]

I disagree 100%, and actually think your viewpoint is the naive one.
Suggs is a better player than you would expect you get at #7. In that vein, of course they would.
But you are missing an important part of the equation.
We would need to pay Suggs, and he will want 10mill a year.

If Suggs were released and a free agent, would you sign him for 10 mill a year. (Remember the Jets gave Pace 7 mill a year just on the hope that maybe he will be a lot better than he has been his whole career).
Do you think the Pats, with Vrabel and Thomas already at the position, would spend 10 mill a year on Suggs? Thats crazy to me.
Then for the right to pay him all that money, you have to hand over your #7 pick.

This wouldn't happen in a million years, and in fact, the Pats wouldn't do it for ANY compensation, because they wouldn't sign him off the open market for no compensation if they had to pay him that kind of money.

I think you misread my post. My point is that the Ravens wouldn't do it. I agree with you that the Patriots would have some $$$ issues, but I think even WITH Vrabel and AD, the Pats would find a way to make it work - like, say, moving Thomas back inside.

 

[satz]

I think you misread my post. My point is that the Ravens wouldn't do it. I agree with you that the Patriots would have some $$$ issues, but I think even WITH Vrabel and AD, the Pats would find a way to make it work - like, say, moving Thomas back inside.

If they move enough contracts around then they can squeeze him but then you are writing off signin vince wilfork till the last year of his contract. i do not feel comfortable if they get 10 million give to vince .

last year adrian peterson cap hit at #7 was 2.1 million .

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

But more importantly, do not cost $10mill a year

Yes, those who are willing to rip apart their old contract for a prove it to me type of no risk contract... usually for 1 year.

 

[cstjohn17]

This wouldn't happen in a million years, and in fact, the Pats wouldn't do it for ANY compensation, because they wouldn't sign him off the open market for no compensation if they had to pay him that kind of money.

A million years is a long time.. Suggs is a difference maker on defense and is certainly much better than any rookie. He is only 26 and hasn't even hit his prime and he plays a premium position.

I floated this theory a while back so I am going to hang on to it just as hard and as long as the '2nd Shooters' have with JFK.

BB was high on this guy coming out of the draft, if it was a realistic option (which I don't think it is) then they could find a way to work the money out.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you misread my post. My point is that the Ravens wouldn't do it. I agree with you that the Patriots would have some $$$ issues, but I think even WITH Vrabel and AD, the Pats would find a way to make it work - like, say, moving Thomas back inside.

No I didnt misread it at all. Let me reitierate.
the Patriots would not sign Suggs as a free agent for the 10mill a year he will want.
The idea of giving up the 7th pick in the draft in order to get the guy who will demand 10mill a year, when you wouldn't give him 10mill a year as a free agent, is totally and entirely ludicrous.

They wouldn't 'have some $$$ issues' they would never even consider paying him what he is going to want.
The possible argument is whether they would look at him as a free agent. Ask yourself if he were a free agent, and his asking price was 10mill a year (and there is absolutely no doubt it would have been) do you really think the Patriots would get in that bidding war? No way.
Your theory says not only would they love to pay him 10mill, but that is such a bargain they would give up the 7th pick in the draft too.

I think there is no greater certainty in the world than that BB would not pay 10mill a year for a pass rusher, and give a #7 pick for the right to do so.

 

[Ring 6]

A million years is a long time.. Suggs is a difference maker on defense and is certainly much better than any rookie. He is only 26 and hasn't even hit his prime and he plays a premium position.

I floated this theory a while back so I am going to hang on to it just as hard and as long as the '2nd Shooters' have with JFK.

BB was high on this guy coming out of the draft, if it was a realistic option (which I don't think it is) then they could find a way to work the money out.

He will cost TEN MILLION A YEAR.
Do you think BB would sign him as a free agent for 7 years and 70 milliion?
Even if you thought that was possible, you are asking for him to ALSO trade the #7 pick in the draft.
I don't care if he is LT Jr, BB would never trade the #7 pick for a guy he must pay $10mill a year.
It isn't a matter of whether having Suggs on the roster or whoever we pick at #7 makes us a better team, its a matter of Suggs MINUS all of the guys we could not afford because of his assinine contract vs the rookie.

 

[Ring 6]

If they move enough contracts around then they can squeeze him but then you are writing off signin vince wilfork till the last year of his contract. i do not feel comfortable if they get 10 million give to vince .

last year adrian peterson cap hit at #7 was 2.1 million .

You have to do a lot more than move contracts around to pay someone 10mill.
It will drastically impact the entire roster. For a very long time too.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I originally made a post about Suggs last week. My point is that with the new coaching comes a new system and it looks like they are going to switch to a 4-3 so Suggs wont be maximized as an athlete...and his numbers will go DOWN so he is going to be worth more this year than next. BB has shown he will spend the $$ on special,franchise players,especially LBs. At 26, Suggs is a proven commodity(in his prime) and will likely be far better than anyone that we will have at that position next year. I dont think we would have to give up 2 #1s, as he is not an EXCLUSIVE right franchise is he?
Now if we were drafting at 31 we would CERTAINLY trade 2 1s for him, and #7 has ALOT more value than 2 @31s. They are rebuilding, they will be able to take both Ellis and Ryan. Problem is that we have to make the trade BEFORE the draft in order to have the time to approach Suggs and measure him for a long term contract before the draft. I dont think this is very risky considering Long and Gholston will definately be gone. I think this makes too much sense and that this might in fact be going on before the draft(because we need permission). We likely wont hear a thing til its done, but our FO is too smart to not find out why he hasnt signed a contract with the Ravens right?

 

[cstjohn17]

He will cost TEN MILLION A YEAR.
Do you think BB would sign him as a free agent for 7 years and 70 milliion?
Even if you thought that was possible, you are asking for him to ALSO trade the #7 pick in the draft.
I don't care if he is LT Jr, BB would never trade the #7 pick for a guy he must pay $10mill a year.
It isn't a matter of whether having Suggs on the roster or whoever we pick at #7 makes us a better team, its a matter of Suggs MINUS all of the guys we could not afford because of his assinine contract vs the rookie.

I am still hanging on, it is my dream and you can't stop me. $10,000,000 is relative. Samuel was going to get $100+ million and he got $56. AD was going to get $70M but he got $38. Moss was a malcontent, he played for $3M.

Stuff can happen, things can get creative when:

• Suggs is staring down a year under the franchise (an injury away from losing some big big coin)
• has a chance get very good money, not top money (say 6 years, $48 mostly on the backend with $14 up front)
• chance to play for a defensive minded coach
• chance to play with Arizona legend Tedy Bruschi (Arizona State, Arizona, same diff)
• Suggs realizes that his offense will continually bring down their great defense
• chance to live in Foxboro, MA

Will it happen, No.. can it happen, Yes, history favors the bold.

 

[Ring 6]

I am still hanging on, it is my dream and you can't stop me. $10,000,000 is relative. Samuel was going to get $100+ million and he got $56. AD was going to get $70M but he got $38. Moss was a malcontent, he played for $3M.

Stuff can happen, things can get creative when:

• Suggs is staring down a year under the franchise (an injury away from losing some big big coin)
• has a chance get very good money, not top money (say 6 years, $48 mostly on the backend with $14 up front)
• chance to play for a defensive minded coach
• chance to play with Arizona legend Tedy Bruschi (Arizona State, Arizone, same diff)
• Suggs realizes that his offense will continually bring down their great defense
• chance to live in Foxboro, MA

Will it happen, No.. can it happen, Yes, history favors the bold.

History doesnt favor the stupid though.
Pace got 7mill a year, and he sucks. I dont where you got 100mill on samuel or 70 mill on Thomas, other than your imagination.
Even at your 8mill a year, there are just many other ways we can spend 8 mill than on a pass rusher, when we already have 2 good OLBs. I understand some say move Thomas to ILB, but its silly to me to take last years big FA signing and go spend 8mill a year, so you can move him away from his best position and make him overpaid too.

Putting Samuel in place of whoever will be playing corner helps this team more than putting suggs at OLB and moving Thomas inside, so if we didn't spend it on Samuel why would we spend it on suggs?
Suggs is going to be one of the highest paid defensive players in NFL history, because the increase in the cap has teams going crazy. Thats not the way the Pats build a team, and I'm glad for it.

 

[cstjohn17]

History doesnt favor the stupid though.
Pace got 7mill a year, and he sucks. I dont where you got 100mill on samuel or 70 mill on Thomas, other than your imagination.
Even at your 8mill a year, there are just many other ways we can spend 8 mill than on a pass rusher, when we already have 2 good OLBs. I understand some say move Thomas to ILB, but its silly to me to take last years big FA signing and go spend 8mill a year, so you can move him away from his best position and make him overpaid too.

Putting Samuel in place of whoever will be playing corner helps this team more than putting suggs at OLB and moving Thomas inside, so if we didn't spend it on Samuel why would we spend it on suggs?
Suggs is going to be one of the highest paid defensive players in NFL history, because the increase in the cap has teams going crazy. Thats not the way the Pats build a team, and I'm glad for it.

Lets just say that we disagree on this one big time. I would much rather build a dominant front seven and piece the secondary together than have QBs picking apart the backfield because they have all day to throw.

The history I remember is the Patriots having their best defenses with a OLB rotation of Colvin, McGinest and Vrabel and ILB of Bruschi, Johnson and Phifer.

Pass rushers don't grow on trees, that is why they are expensive. Thomas gives the Patriots flexibility and is an excellent inside blitzer. Something they sorrily missed when he moved to the outside. He had a great Superbowl but was almost invisible on the edge until the final game, it is not like he was lights out and Vrabel was pretty much dead on his feet by the end of the game. More depth would have helped, chances are with elite depth they would have made 1-2 more 3rd down stops when they really needed to.