What are your religious beliefs?

[Fogbuster]

Well, followers of the Unification Church are mocked and disparaged enough as is, so it's really not my intention here to perpetuate this intolerance or even to criticize your religion. But I do find the quoted passage above a bit odd. Though Sun Myung Moon has suffered social ostracization, persecution and hardship, especially in the US and his native South Korea, I really can't say it's at all comparable to what Christ is said to have suffered. Obviously, Christ never had mansions throughout the world including Gloucester MA, nor did he own the Washington Times, was once the owner of the international new wire service UPI, nor did he possess extensive holding throughout the world including the Brazilian football clue Sao Paolo. I really wouldn't say Christ or even the Dalai Lama for that matter had such extensive holdings.

Well, you are only talking about more recent history of Rev. Moon's life. His early years were marked by torture and imprisonment by Japanese authorities for his involvement with a Korean national movement when Korean was occupied by Japan from 1905 until its defeat in 1945. Then, after liberation from Japan, Korea was partitioned and the North became communist. Again, Rev. Moon was imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and then sent to a death camp at Heung Nam, until the UN forces liberated the city during the Korean War. And, of course, there was the infamous treatment he received from the U.S. government which imprisoned him for a trumped up tax case that forever changed how American clergy kept their bank accounts: no more "pastor's funds" accounts, as almost every pastor in America had up to that point, from Roman Catholic to Southern Baptist. The first time in my life I had ever been invited in to a RC Bishop's office in Boston was when I went to discuss Rev. Moon's case. Ditto for most everyone, from the Unitarians to the Episcopalians to the Methodists, and everybody in between. Some 30 churches and other legal entities joined to file an amicus curiae brief defending Rev. Moon during his trial.

The point is, Rev. Moon is not unlike most religious pioneers: he has received an intensely hostile reception by some religious leaders for the simple reason his has something new to say, and the entrenched establishment almost always has problems with new messages. See what St. Francis of Assisi went through, for example.

As for how this compares to Christ Jesus' life: Jesus came as the King of kings, was prepared and heralded by God, had wise men from the East attend his birth, was born to a people prepared for four thousand years to receive the Messiah, and then they call him a "blasphemer" (like being called a "cult" leader today) for saying he was the Son of God. Rev. Moon says Jesus called him to fulfill the mission of building God's Kingdom, and now he gets the same kind of treatment Jesus got, except instead of physical crucifixion he's gotten verbal crucifixion and character assassination. Meanwhile, he goes on about the business of building God's Kingdom through the enterprises you mention, plus more. We are living in the most exciting time in human history, a time of fundamental change in the world. God's will is coming to fruition! Just don't look for it on the evening news; it's coming "like a thief in the night" to most, although we should prepare ourselves with prayer and humility.



//

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Well, you are only talking about more recent history of Rev. Moon's life.

Indeed, I am though I'm not sure what recent really means when his sizable holding can be traced back to the '60s or '70s. As I've stated, I just found the term "hardship" a bit odd when referring to Sun Myung Moon. As far his earlier chapter in occupied and post-liberation Korea is concerned, I'm fairly sure his experience isn't all that extraordinary from other Koreans of his generation.

But if you wish to keep debating this, then perhaps you should begin a new post on the matter rather than taking it up here for it really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this thread to get proselytize or deconstruct.

 

[taltos]

Born and raised a Catholic. Still practicing my faith. Fogbuster, this statement should take some heat off of you.

 

[Fogbuster]

Indeed, I am though I'm not sure what recent really means when his sizable holding can be traced back to the '60s or '70s. As I've stated, I just found the term "hardship" a bit odd when referring to Sun Myung Moon. As far his earlier chapter in occupied and post-liberation Korea is concerned, I'm fairly sure his experience isn't all that extraordinary from other Koreans of his generation.

But if you wish to keep debating this, then perhaps you should begin a new post on the matter rather than taking it up here for it really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this thread to get proselytize or deconstruct.

This is not a "debate". Things are what they are. You either accept them or you don't, because the things in question never change. The only thing that ever changes is people's perception. Jesus is the Messiah of the first advent -- one either accepts this as fact or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who Jesus is. Rev. Moon is the Messiah of the second advent -- and one either accepts it or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who he is.


I didn't come here to "proselytize". The question of this thread was: "what do you believe?", and I answered. You chose to take issue about Rev. Moon's life, and I answered it. If you don't want people to answer your challenges, don't make them. If you don't want to learn from others about their beliefs, but only want to continue your own stereotypical, uninformed, and ignorant viewpoint, that's your choice; but don't chide me for setting you straight on the facts when you are, in fact, presenting a skewed, biased, and woefully incomplete picture of someone else.


//

 

[Fogbuster]

Born and raised a Catholic. Still practicing my faith. Fogbuster, this statement should take some heat off of you.

So true. As someone once said: "That government which governs least is that government which governs best."

Of course, this doesn't mean anarchy is the answer, but in the end it is when people govern themselves properly that produces the greatest freedom and happiness for all.


//

 

[DarrylS]

So true. As someone once said: "That government which governs least is that government which governs best."

Of course, this doesn't mean anarchy is the answer, but in the end it is when people govern themselves properly that produces the greatest freedom and happiness for all.
//

In a country whose constitution defines the separation of church and state, who defines what "people govern themselves properly", sounds like a religious and value laden overtone to me.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

This is not a "debate". Things are what they are. You either accept them or you don't, because the things in question never change. The only thing that ever changes is people's perception. Jesus is the Messiah of the first advent -- one either accepts this as fact or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who Jesus is. Rev. Moon is the Messiah of the second advent -- and one either accepts it or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who he is.


I didn't come here to "proselytize". The question of this thread was: "what do you believe?", and I answered. You chose to take issue about Rev. Moon's life, and I answered it. If you don't want people to answer your challenges, don't make them. If you don't want to learn from others about their beliefs, but only want to continue your own stereotypical, uninformed, and ignorant viewpoint, that's your choice; but don't chide me for setting you straight on the facts when you are, in fact, presenting a skewed, biased, and woefully incomplete picture of someone else.//

LOL....look, there really was no need for the above. I questioned your presentation that Sun Myung Moon was suffering under some "hardship." OK? Move on and you really didn't need to write a tome in your replies nor was it necessary to go ballistic in the above. I'm sure I've been rather polite to you. Sheesh.

 

[gomezcat]

Just to clarify, this IS a religious forum. Feel free to have a debate about religion, which is the whole point, but please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Just to clarify, this IS a religious forum. Feel free to have a debate about religion, which is the whole point, but please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.

I understood that this is a religious forum, but I thought this thread itself was about people introducing their political affiliations or lack thereof - something akin to a getting to know you sort of a thread. Appreciate the clarification though.

 

[Danish PATS Fan]

What are your religious beliefs?

None !!! :rocker:

Believe in The Patriots...they are my gods !!!

 

[Harry Boy]

Sit alone and watch this, speakers on.
http://www.biblesociety.ca/free_scriptures/escriptures/ecclesiastes3/ecclesiastes3.html

 

[Rawky77]

Quite simply i no longer have any religious beliefs, at least not as modern society presently defines religion. I no longer belong to any religious organizations, nor do i attend any religious meetings or fellowship with any religious groups. All of these activities were once a very large part of my life.

But the storms, the tragedies, and the cataclysms of this life have washed all of these temporary human trappings far from me.

What remains from these experiences are these simple Truths.

Jesus the Christ is the Very Son of God and He is God's one and only Messiah given as a sacrifice for all who would come to Him, Jesus the Christ has come in the flesh, died upon the Cross for my sins and yours, He was buried and on the third day by the awesome power of the One and Only True God, Jesus the Christ arose again to LIFE and LIVES forevermore. Jesus the Christ is presently and forever ALIVE.

These simple Truths are the one foundational stone left in all of my many efforts in this life and it remains in place not by my intellectual efforts or by the power of my own will, for the mind of my understanding and the steadfastness of my will change wily nilly as the circumstances of my experience in this life continually unfold.

But God in His wisdom rooted His truth in the faith of my heart rather then the mind of my understanding.
My heart of faith is impervious to my intellectual understanding and the circumstances that this life brings.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

One God, no virgins, saints, human intercessories, or wing-gods on either side. Just the one, thanks.

Ask me to describe Him and, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I'll tell you you already know Him, if you're thinking clearly enough. After all, all one needs is to realize participation in God; God's process of creation can only ultimately be a separation of something from God, nu? And if the ultimate reality is that God is One, the separation is illusory. Moments of that realization in the heart manifests in our everyday language as "grace" or "moments of clarity" or "holiness"... all they are, are moments when the veil is lifted, and we join for a moment in the totality of what we really are. And trying to capture it in words is just making me an ass, like every other ass who tries to capture it in words.

Paths to that realization can block, or enhance, the moments of that realization... any paths to that realization. For my own part, I block the hell out of that realization, because I am very rooted in my materialist world.

But I touch that realization now and then... the way I do it? Hardly ever in temple, so I do not attend temple anymore. I use to think that was bad... now, for me, it's just growing up. Of course, I don't reach that realization in church or a mosque. It's easier to be in touch with it in nature, but it can be anytime, anywhere... and I don't chase after it with any particular meditation, etc... it just is, and I am patient while I go about the little errands of the world.

If this makes sense to anybody else, I'm not at all surprised, in a spiritual way, and utterly shocked in a mundane way.

PFnV

 

[Rawky77]

One God, no virgins, saints, human intercessories, or wing-gods on either side. Just the one, thanks.

Moments of that realization in the heart manifests in our everyday language as "grace" or "moments of clarity" or "holiness"... all they are, are moments when the veil is lifted, and we join for a moment in the totality of what we really are. And trying to capture it in words is just making me an ass, like every other ass who tries to capture it in words.



PFnV

Your words are adequate and what you have said is, from my experience, valid and true. The truth be known. experience is the only true path to knowing the One and Only God.
All the rest is but a simple magicians slight of hand trick designed to keep the sheep from actually stumbling upon the Truth which is all around us and available at any moment in any situation.
For above all God is in each of us working out His salvation through us moment by moment as they unfold into our lives.
Any of us in any given moment may avail ourselves of His presence and His grace for it is ever present with us.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I am a christian that was blind for a long time.

I listened to organized religion for many years.

I used to believe in the lies of organized religion.

Now I no longer go to the weekly brainwash session.

I listen to real christians that are against zionism.

www.powerofprophecy.com is a very good eye opener for people.

I couldn't recommend it enough.

 

[costpet]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

 

[Rawky77]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

When one encounters the Spiritual and interprets what they see or hear only with the eyes and ears of their experiences in the flesh they come away from that encounter with even less then they started it with.

In the NT Jesus only speaks in Parables to those who are outside of His inner circle of twelve disciples. Mat 13:10-13

The marriage at Cana must be interpreted as a parable because Jesus is speaking and acting before those who are not His disciples and thus the mystery’s of the Kingdom were not to be given to them. So the Truth in these events is hidden in the symbols used by Jesus in this teaching.

What Jesus did at the marriage in Cana was not an act of fleshly debauchery as you suggest but rather it was a Spiritual revelation of His life’s purpose and destiny too bring forth in those who would become His followers a totally new basis for life in the Spirit.

As the Scriptures teach that which is born flesh is flesh and that which is born Spirit is spirit. Jn 3:6

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What Jesus did at the marriage in Cana was not an act of fleshly debauchery as you suggest but rather it was a Spiritual revelation of His life’s purpose and destiny too bring forth in those who would become His followers a totally new basis for life in the Spirit.

As the Scriptures teach that which is born flesh is flesh and that which is born Spirit is spirit. Jn 3:6

Keep telling yourself that

Wine was a common libation at such events. Of course they were drinking wine.

The really fun question is, who was getting married at Cana?

PFnV

 

[Lifer]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

try to seperate what "many Christians believe" and what the Bible actually says. Alcohol in itself is not evil. money is not evil. The Bible says not to get drunk in the spirit and the LOVE of money is evil.
so there is no inconsistancy. I, myself, choose not to drink, because that, for myself, that feeling, puts a seperation between me and God. But I have no problem with people having some wine or whatever. Its the drunkeness which the Bible addresses. likewise, people who worship money, who put it before God, that is a problem. But money itself is not evil. at least this is how i interupt the Word.

 

[Harry Boy]

I Am Jesus