Combine # Comparison: Current vs Past LB's

[elephant]

I thought it would be interesting to see how some of the ILB's & OLB's of this draft stack up against some of todays NFL stars & recent high picks. Here goes...

Name (Hght Wght) Bench - 40yd - 10yd - 20yrd - VJ - BJ - 20ys - 3cone

OLB:
V. Gholston (6-3 263) 37 - 4.58 - 1.53 - 2.65 - 42.0 - 10.5 - 4.40 - 7.12
Q. Groves (6-3 259) 31 - 4.57 - 1.57 - 2.62 - 35.0 - 10.0 - 4.42 - 7.32
C. Avril (6-3 253) 26 - 4.51 - 1.50 - 2.58 - 36.5 - 9.9 - 4.31 - 6.90

D. Ware (6-4 251) 27 - 4.56 - 1.62 - 2.71 - 38.5 - 10.2 - 4.07 - 6.85
S. Merriman (6-4 272) 25 - 4.64 - x - x - 40.0 - 10.1 - 4.21 - x
K. Wimbley (6-4 248) 24 - 4.61 - 1.58 - 2.65 - 38.5 - 10.9 - 4.42 - 6.88
M. Lawson (6-5 238) 23 - 4.43 - 1.53 - 2.53 - 39.5 - 10.4 - 4.18 - 6.90
A. Spencer (6-3 265) 30 - 4.69 - 1.67 - 2.61 - 32.5 - 9.4 - 4.43 - 7.15

ILB:
J. Mayo (6-1 242) 22 - 4.54 - 1.50 - 2.58 - 40.5 - 9.6 - 4.29 - 7.31
J. Goff (6-2 245) 28 - 4.63 - 1.53 - 2.64 - 31.5 - 9.10 - 4.26 - 6.86

A. Hawk (6-1 248) 24 - 4.42 - 1.56 - 2.65 - 40.0 - 9.7 - 3.96 - 6.82
P. Willis (6-1 241) 22 - 4.51 - 1.54 - 2.63 - 39.0 - 9.11 - 4.37 - 7.10
D. Harris (6-2 245) 23 - 4.60 - 1.54 - 2.60 - 33.0 - 9.2 - 4.29 - 7.26
D. Ryans (6-1 236) 23 - 4.65 - 1.60 - 2.68 - 39.0 - 10.9 - 4.17 - 7.19

Observations:
1) Gholston, Groves & Avril all compare favorably to Ware & Merriman, at least from an athletic standpoint.
2) Avril's 10yrd split is pretty crazy- faster than Hawk & Lawson who torched the 40.
3) Gholston's 37 reps is pretty crazy as well- compared to Merriman's 25.
4) Mayo's numbers are comparable to Willis' and Goff's are comparable to Harris' - both of which are better than Demeco Ryans'.

Obviously this is purely a comparison of combine numbers and not football ability but I think it's interesting just the same. I wouldn't mind having any of these guys on the roster next year (for the right price).

 

[mavfan2390]

3) Gholston's 37 reps is pretty crazy as well- compared to Merriman's 25.

Do you have the pre-roid and post-roid splits for Merriman?

 

[sebman2112]

Mayo posted a 32 inch vertical at the Combine, not 40.5 vertical.

I believe that's around what he put up at his Pro Day, though.

Gholston posted a 4.65 forty at the Combine, not 4.58.

Let's not substitute inflated Pro Day numbers for some prospects, while excluding them from the listed numbers given for others, especially since this is supposed to be a "Combine" comparison. Really, you should only substitute Pro Day numbers (for this comparison), if there is no listed Combine result for a particular drill. IE, Mayo didn't lift at the Combine, so you can use his 22 reps at the Pro Day, but you should include a note.

Also, I already compared Goff's Combine numbers to all other ILB's who've posted numbers at the Combine from 2000-2008:

Here's where Goff's Combine numbers rank compared to all other ILB's who've performed there from 2000-2008 (very large sample size):

10 yards: 1.53 - 3rd (tied with Willis and Harris) ***
20 yards: 2.64 - 6th
40 yards: 4.63 - 15th
Three Cone: 6.86 - 8th
Short Shuttle: 4.26 - outside the top 25, but faster than both Willis and Harris
Bench: 28 reps - 11th
Broad Jump: 9'10" - 14th

*** The reported numbers have changed since that comparison. They are now listing Goff's Combine 10 split at 1.50, which is faster than either Willis or Harris.

 

[jeffbiologist]

OK, you got numbers. How about posting all the LBs numbers, not just the all pros?? There are likely alot of noname guys with similar numbers I am guessing, which means...you know.

 

[PonyExpress]

Mayo posted a 32 inch vertical at the Combine, not 40.5 vertical.

I believe that's around what he put up at his Pro Day, though.

Gholston posted a 4.65 forty at the Combine, not 4.58.

Let's not substitute inflated Pro Day numbers for some prospects, while excluding them from the listed numbers given for others, especially since this is supposed to be a "Combine" comparison. Really, you should only substitute Pro Day numbers (for this comparison), if there is no listed Combine result for a particular drill. IE, Mayo didn't lift at the Combine, so you can use his 22 reps at the Pro Day, but you should include a note.

Also, I already compared Goff's Combine numbers to all other ILB's who've posted numbers at the Combine from 2000-2008:



*** The reported numbers have changed since that comparison. They are now listing Goff's Combine 10 split at 1.50, which is faster than either Willis or Harris.

Mayock reported that VJ numbers at the combine were all off by 4-5 inches because someone screwed up setting up the contraption in Indy. The VJ numbers from pro days are more valid when comparing 2008 prospects to those of past seasons. Mayo had a VJ close to 40" at the UT pro day.

 

[sebman2112]

Mayock reported that VJ numbers at the combine were all off by 4-5 inches because someone screwed up setting up the contraption in Indy.

No doubt. And, all the more reason not to use Pro Day VJ numbers in comparison to those actually posted at the 2008 Combine...

The VJ numbers from pro days are more valid when comparing 2008 prospects to those of past seasons. Mayo had a VJ close to 40" at the UT pro day.

They are seemingly more valid in comparison to numbers posted during previous workouts, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you're effectively handicapping players who've only recorded a VJ at the 2008 Combine, as there is a known discrepancy in the numbers.

Also, Pro Day results (IE: forty times) have been notably inflated over the years, so comparison's can be a little murky if you only include the Pro Day numbers given for certain players. For instance, the OP list Gholston's Pro Day forty time, while listing Patrick Willis' Combine forty. What's the problem here? Patrick Willis recorded a 4.37 forty at his Pro Day, which is a substantial upgrade over the 4.51 he ran at the Combine.

So, I'll again say that it's not an entirely accurate comparison, especially if you're going to include Pro Day results for some players, while excluding the listed Pro Day results for others.

 

[PonyExpress]

Pro day 40s have been inflated for years, usually by about .1 seconds. I don't see the same problem with pro day VJs.

 

[sebman2112]

Pro day 40s have been inflated for years, usually by about .1 seconds.

I know. That's actually something I just pointed out.

The argument here is that you shouldn't include Pro Day numbers for some players (Gholston), while excluding listed Pro Day numbers for others (Willis), since Pro Day numbers have been inflated over the years.

I don't see the same problem with pro day VJs.

I'm not really arguing the validity of those Pro Day VJ's, only that they aren't accurately comparable to VJ numbers recorded at the 2008 Combine, especially since we know the VJ numbers recorded at that 2008 Combine weren't gathered correctly. So, you're effectively handicapping those players who've only recorded 2008 Combine VJ's.



You understand the points I'm making here, right?

 

[elephant]

Sedman- Feel free to post combine numbers for everyone but I don't have the data- I posted the numbers that I had.

 

[PonyExpress]

I know. That's actually something I just pointed out.

The argument here is that you shouldn't include Pro Day numbers for some players (Gholston), while excluding listed Pro Day numbers for others (Willis), since Pro Day numbers have been inflated over the years.



I'm not really arguing the validity of those Pro Day VJ's, only that they aren't accurately comparable to VJ numbers recorded at the 2008 Combine, especially since we know the VJ numbers recorded at that 2008 Combine weren't gathered correctly. So, you're effectively handicapping those players who've only recorded 2008 Combine VJ's.



You understand the points I'm making here, right?

If you don't want to count Pro Day VJs, that your decision. I see no reason to exclude them. To me the combine #s are invalid. The 2008 prospects are competing as much with the past as with eachother. IOW, we know certain standards must be met athletically for a prospect to have a legit chance to become a star, and we know this from tracking past years. So the combine #s tell me nothing. The Pro Day #s tell me more, because i can compare them with pro day #s from the past. For those prospects foolish enough not to redo their VJs, despite the fact the inaccuracy at the combine is common knowledge, I guess we can charitably add 4-5 inches in order not to "penalize" them, if that's what you're afraid of. 4-5 inches is the number Mayock mentioned, I believe.

 

[ALP]

so then goff actually had more like a 36in vertical? b/c if its only 31.5, thats worrisome

 

[sebman2112]

so then goff actually had more like a 36in vertical? b/c if its only 31.5, thats worrisome

I don't know. Mayo's VJ went from 32 inches at the Combine, to 40.5 at his Pro Day (8.5" difference). And, Gholston's VJ went from 35.5" at the Combine, to 42" at his Pro Day (6.5" difference). So, it's hard to say what Goff's true number is. I'd say at least in the 35.5"-36.5" range, which is a very good number.

Goff's Pro Day is the 21st, so hopefully we'll be able to get a more accurate number. I'll say that 31.5 isn't a "worrisome" number though.

Also, Chris Long posted a 34" vertical at the Combine, but chose to simply go through LB drills at his Pro Day, so I have no idea what his accurate VJ numbers would be. He did weigh in at 267lbs, though. That's down from the 272lbs he weighed at the Combine.

 

[patchick]

How about posting all the LBs numbers, not just the all pros?? There are likely alot of noname guys with similar numbers I am guessing, which means...you know.

True enough (though if there's one position on the field where numbers do tend to tell the tale, it's 3-4 OLB). FYI here are the other names and numbers of Pats-sized LBs taken in round 1 since 2005:


Name (Hght Wght) Bench - 40yd - 10yd - 20yrd - VJ - BJ - 20ys - 3cone

Derrick Johnson 6'3" 242 ? 4.52 1.61 2.66 37.5 10'00 3.93 7.21
David Pollack 6'2" 265 25 4.75 1.67 2.71 37 10'00 3.94 6.87
Chad Greenway 6'2" 242 16 4.76 1.61 2.75 33.5 09'09" 4.22 7.01
*Bobby Carpenter 6'3" 256 20 4.65 ? ? ? ? 4.31 6.88
Jarvis Moss 6'6" 250 16 4.70 1.59 2.68 30.5 10'00 4.41* 7.21*

*Only pro day numbers available

 

[sebman2112]

I don't know. Mayo's VJ went from 32 inches at the Combine, to 40.5 at his Pro Day (8.5" difference). And, Gholston's VJ went from 35.5" at the Combine, to 42" at his Pro Day (6.5" difference). So, it's hard to say what Goff's true number is. I'd say at least in the 35.5"-36.5" range, which is a very good number.

Goff's Pro Day is the 21st, so hopefully we'll be able to get a more accurate number. I'll say that 31.5 isn't a "worrisome" number though.

Also, Chris Long posted a 34" vertical at the Combine, but chose to simply go through LB drills at his Pro Day, so I have no idea what his accurate VJ numbers would be. He did weigh in at 267lbs, though. That's down from the 272lbs he weighed at the Combine.

Updating this:

Jonathan Goff recorded a 35.5" vertical at Vandy's Pro Day.