The Player you don't want to see the Patriots select at #7

[Mr.Muhozi]

That may be true, but there is no actual evidence to support that statement. The only skill he has demonstrated that would definitely translate is the ability to penetrate the line and get to the QB...and Gholston has demonstrated greater skill and production in this area.



You just described Dan Klecko. If you have the opportunity to party at the Playboy mansion, you don't go looking for girls with a great personality. Long will be a fine player, but doesn't have the skill set to distinguish himself at #7...at least in the Pats system.

thats quite a bad analogy, it seems all you want is a athletic studs, which is all fine and dandy, but seriously, what chance do they have to learn a bb playbook if all they have is their athleticism and no brain, with chris long you have both, plus chris is a near finished article a few, which means the defensive coaches will be spending their time teaching him the system rather than techniques need for a linebackers, and long has player linebacker sometimes in college

also on dan klecko he was a 4th round pick who lived of his fathers legacy, where as long is making his own, winning numerous awards in college

gholston may have seen more time at linebacker than long, but many analysts say he is better than long, and gholstons postives are his athleticism and his final games in college where he was a beast, but before that he was under the radar, i like gholson, but prefer long, i would be happy if we got either one of them, but i think long could be starter week 1-4 gholston may take longer

 

[Metaphors]

You just lost your argument. Dan Klecko? Klecko was an extremely undersized college defensive lineman who had no position on this team to begin with.

high motor, strong, quick, smart...those were the observations made about Long. My point was that those qualities alone don't make you successful in the Pats system. Klecko (and others) share those same qualities. You have to bring more to the table that clearly differentiates you from what the Pats already have or can readily acquire.

Long would have a clearly defined position. OLB.

I agree that is where the Pats would need to put him. They wouldn't have any other choice. But what has he shown that leads you to believe that translation would be a slam dunk success?
Seal the edge on running plays? Never asked to do it.
Rush the QB from the edge? Sure, but not off the line with his hand off the ground.
Cover a RB/TE in coverage? Never asked to do it.

He was a penetrating (pass rush and run support) 3-4 DE in college. Can he translate his skill set to play OLB? Entirely possible but hardly a sure thing. He has speed limitations that he would have to overcome first.

As for you claiming that Long doesn't have the skill set to distinguish himself as the #7 pick by being in the Pats system, just what are you basing this on? ANYTHING of any relative value? Or are you just talking out your rear end?

Watching him play in games that last couple of years. I'm in the heart of ACC country and unfortunately that has meant some suckish college football on TV recently. Long has played very well against some horrific offenses in the ACC, but his success has been as a penetrating DE. Great handwork to disengage from blocks and doesn't take plays off. He seems to be constantly in the backfield disrupting pass and run plays.

However, the downside to his play is equally obvious. If the OL gets locked on, he can be manipulated open gaping holes. If the play is away from him, he doesn't have the foot speed to be effective in pursuit.

If he can't correct these deficiencies, his transition to OLB would be a disaster. I'm don't see what he has shown besides what I noted above that makes him a good pick for the Pats at #7. Sure you could put him on the edge, wind him up and send him after the QB on every play...but is he a better prospect at THAT skill than Gholston? or Harvey? or Groves?

I'm not saying that Long is a bad player (he isn't) or that he wouldn't make contributions to the Pats defense (he would). I'm just saying that a #7 pick in the draft comes around for the Pats fairly infrequently. Getting a solid contributer at pick #28 is good business. If the Pats are forced to pick at #7, they should be targeting a difference maker whose skills have the potential to raise the effectiveness of the defense/offense to a new level. I just don't see Long as that player for the Pats. Pittsburgh? Buffalo? St.Louis? Different story.

Can you tell me what you have seen him do in games that you think will translate well to an OLB in NE? I would love to be wrong in my evaluation of him because right now I'm scared to death that the Pats take him at #7, pay him gobs of cash and see him become a marginal to average LB.

 

[Metaphors]

thats quite a bad analogy, it seems all you want is a athletic studs, which is all fine and dandy, but seriously, what chance do they have to learn a bb playbook if all they have is their athleticism and no brain, with chris long you have both, plus chris is a near finished article a few, which means the defensive coaches will be spending their time teaching him the system rather than techniques need for a linebackers, and long has player linebacker sometimes in college

Is Long the only player available at #7 with the brains to be a Patriot? I haven't seen every UVA game, but in the ones that I have seen I have never observed Long playing LB. Not once. I can't say he never played LB, but I can say he went entire games without doing it.

also on dan klecko he was a 4th round pick who lived of his fathers legacy, where as long is making his own, winning numerous awards in college

If his name was Chris Short, would he still be a top 10 consideration? Maybe, but I'm not so sure.

gholston may have seen more time at linebacker than long, but many analysts say he is better than long, and gholstons postives are his athleticism and his final games in college where he was a beast, but before that he was under the radar, i like gholson, but prefer long, i would be happy if we got either one of them, but i think long could be starter week 1-4 gholston may take longer

I have concerns about Gholston transitioning to OLB as well. Given his speed, he would at least be able to be a terror rushing the QB from the outside. In the NFL today, that is still a pretty nice tool to have at your disposal.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'd rather they trade down to the teens and pick Groves. This guy is only slightly less athletic than Gholston, and getting 4.5 speed in an OLB pass rusher would just be sick in this defense. Then with your extra mid second rounder, you can move up to the bottom of the 1st and take a guy like Cason.

 

[Deus Irae]

Gholston concerns me more than he seems to worry other people. I'm not sold on a guy who's already pretty much maxed out as a physical specimen, and was good, but not otherworldly, in college. I don't know that I'd pass on him, but I'd definitely be wary. His late arrival to football makes me think that there's still some upside available, I'm just not sure if it's enough to choose him at #7.

 

[Crazyeechrispats1]

The more I think about it the more I do not want to pick at 7 and would like to trade down for maximum value.
As much as we do not want to believe it we have some glaring holes on defense as well as in need of a boost on the offensive line.
Unless we can go up and get Jake Long, we need to hope and pray a Matt Ryan or a Mcfadden falls in our lap.
Then we can hold trade talks with multiple teams.
Trade down pick up a Avril or Groves. The fact they hosted Avril's team mate has me thinking there zeroing in on him.
They want to find out more about him.
Kind of like when they asked Chad Jackson how he'd like to be on the field with Mincey again and vice versa.
The Patriots are obviously looking to trade into the lower first half or out of the first round all together.
Unless they can keep the franchise Mr Brady safe for 10 more years by getting Long.
None of the other lineman are a sure enough thing to snatch at 7.
I would not be upset with a first day that read something like.
Cason
Avril
Jackson
zibokowski
Keglar
Would not be disappointed what so ever.

 

[Metaphors]

I would not be upset with a first day that read something like.
Cason
Avril
Jackson
zibokowski
Keglar
Would not be disappointed what so ever.

Agree with your thoughts on trading down, but if they did I would expect a better haul than you listed above:

Cason - late 1st/early 2nd
Avril - early 3rd
Jackson - not sure which one
zibokowski - not sure why you want another safety
Keglar - late 3rd, early 4th

Pats already have an early 1st, late 2nd, early 3rd and late 3rd. They should be able to get Avril and Keglar with the existing 3rd round picks. Assuming they traded down significantly and picked Cason, I'm not sure what they got in return in your scenario.

Get rid of Z and add a 1st round pick in 2009 or another 2nd round talent like Mayo/Lofton/Goff and you got yourself a deal...

 

[ALP]

Agree with your thoughts on trading down, but if they did I would expect a better haul than you listed above:

Cason - late 1st/early 2nd
Avril - early 3rd
Jackson - not sure which one
zibokowski - not sure why you want another safety
Keglar - late 3rd, early 4th

Pats already have an early 1st, late 2nd, early 3rd and late 3rd. They should be able to get Avril and Keglar with the existing 3rd round picks. Assuming they traded down significantly and picked Cason, I'm not sure what they got in return in your scenario.

Get rid of Z and add a 1st round pick in 2009 or another 2nd round talent like Mayo/Lofton/Goff and you got yourself a deal...

i would rather have goff in there as well