Injuries...where it cost the Pats.

[DaBruinz]

In previous years (2001-2004), the Patriots had the depth on the team to overcome any injury that was thrown their way. However, it would seem that hasn't been the case recently. Particularly at linebacker. In 2006, Seau going down cost the Patriots dearly and it was certainly a contributing factor to them not being able to beat the Colts in the AFCCG. In 2007, depth at Linebacker was a factor after Colvin went down. In 2005 and 2006, depth at RB was also an issue.

Other than linebacker and quarterback, what position do you think that lack of depth could cost the Patriots dearly.

OT - If Light were to go down, I have no faith that Kaczur could move over and be effective. I also don't believe that Britt or O'Callaghan could step in there.

OG - Hochstein is acceptable, but I think the Pats could get an upgrade over Yates. Yates just doesn't seem to have a mean streak in him. And the loss of Neal during the SB was definitely felt.

NT - There really isn't a true back-up to Wilfork. Mike Wright and LeKevan Smith are both better at 3-4 DE. Santonio Thomas still hasn't earned a spot on the roster out of training camp and he's out of options.

CB - I think that, with an effective pass rush, a combination of Sanders Webster and Richardson could hold their own. Without an effective pass rush, the Pats are screwed.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I would say Seymour....His injuries in the past, I think hurt the pats more than any other injury in BBs tenure. I think his return to form will be as pivitol as anything to the Defenses success next year.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I understand the Seymour pick, but Green is a capable backup. Not only dont we have a backup for Vince, there are only a handful of true NTs in the league....and with more teams(jets,phins)going to the 3-4 finding a backup for him will be a priority. I think a good value pick would be NT Bryant in the 2nd-3rd round if for no other reason than to spell Vince and not let him get on those other teams....You can never have too many good DL.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I would say Seymour....His injuries in the past, I think hurt the pats more than any other injury in BBs tenure. I think his return to form will be as pivitol as anything to the Defenses success next year.

They didn't in 2004 (he was out down the stretch and early in the playoffs and we rolled) or in 2007 (when we were undefeated in his absence) when in fact things seemed to get a little more dicey as he worked his way back (kind of...). I'd love to see him return to 2003 form, but I'm not holding my breath.

Losing Rodney more than anything killed us in 2005-2006 IMO. Losing Tedy for the most part and then TJ's last minute retirement just exacerbated that. Losing Branch AND Givens to FA didn't help in '06, and the loss of Junior just compounded things without Rodney down the stretch.

I think my concerns for 2008 center around pass rush on D and pass/run blocking on O. And the other big one, if Moss were to miss significant time...

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

They didn't in 2004 (he was out down the stretch and early in the playoffs and we rolled) or in 2007 (when we were undefeated in his absence) when in fact things seemed to get a little more dicey as he worked his way back (kind of...). I'd love to see him return to 2003 form, but I'm not holding my breath.

Losing Rodney more than anything killed us in 2005-2006 IMO. Losing Tedy for the most part and then TJ's last minute retirement just exacerbated that. Losing Branch AND Givens to FA didn't help in '06, and the loss of Junior just compounded things without Rodney down the stretch.

I think my concerns for 2008 center around pass rush on D and pass/run blocking on O. And the other big one, if Moss were to miss significant time...

So you disagree with my choice but than say that your biggest concern is pass rush. Thats one of my concerns and I think seymour of old helps with that more than any move that has yet to be made.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I understand the Seymour pick, but Green is a capable backup. Not only dont we have a backup for Vince, there are only a handful of true NTs in the league....and with more teams(jets,phins)going to the 3-4 finding a backup for him will be a priority. I think a good value pick would be NT Bryant in the 2nd-3rd round if for no other reason than to spell Vince and not let him get on those other teams....You can never have too many good DL.

Why do you assume that the Phins are going to the 3-4? Especially after they kicked Traylor to the curb without a true replacement for him?

There are not as many 3-4 teams as you'd like to believe.

Jets, Browns, Steelers, Chargers

The 49ers actually ran as many plays out of the 4-3 as they did the 3-4 last year.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I don't know if the RB position is an issue, but losing Morris hurt us bad this year imo.
The guy was having a monster year. What a drag.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

I don't know if the RB position is an issue, but losing Morris hurt us bad this year imo.
The guy was having a monster year. What a drag.

How do you figure that losing Morris hurt the Patriots badly?

I am genuinely interested in why you think this because, while his being out for the year hurt the Patriots, it didn't cost them the way that losing Colvin did.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

In previous years (2001-2004), the Patriots had the depth on the team to overcome any injury that was thrown their way. However, it would seem that hasn't been the case recently. Particularly at linebacker. In 2006, Seau going down cost the Patriots dearly and it was certainly a contributing factor to them not being able to beat the Colts in the AFCCG. In 2007, depth at Linebacker was a factor after Colvin went down. In 2005 and 2006, depth at RB was also an issue.

Other than linebacker and quarterback, what position do you think that lack of depth could cost the Patriots dearly.

OT - If Light were to go down, I have no faith that Kaczur could move over and be effective. I also don't believe that Britt or O'Callaghan could step in there.

OG - Hochstein is acceptable, but I think the Pats could get an upgrade over Yates. Yates just doesn't seem to have a mean streak in him. And the loss of Neal during the SB was definitely felt.

NT - There really isn't a true back-up to Wilfork. Mike Wright and LeKevan Smith are both better at 3-4 DE. Santonio Thomas still hasn't earned a spot on the roster out of training camp and he's out of options.

CB - I think that, with an effective pass rush, a combination of Sanders Webster and Richardson could hold their own. Without an effective pass rush, the Pats are screwed.

You could make a pretty cogent argument that if Seau doesn't get injured in 06 and Colvin doesn't get injured in 07, in all likelihood, the team is strong enough to win both of the heartbreaking games it lost. I also think Morris was missed quite a bit, particularly in the SB, I wonder if they'd had both Maroney and Morris to work with, if they'd have run the ball more.

But, teams have to be built to withstand injuries to a certain degree (I say certain degree b/c the Pats are not built to withstand a loss of Brady just as the Colts couldn't withstand the loss of Manning, Brady is the foundation for the team's success on the field).

NT: I agree about NT, we don't have a true backup there. Some folks on the draft board are big on Red Bryant, but there's so many other players in the 2nd-3rd rounds I'm personally big on and can see playing well for the Pats, and backup NT is lower on the priority list.

OT: Kaczur actually filled in well for Light at LT when he went down in 05 if I recall, but I agree, in general I see Kaczur as an area for upgrade and would be happy if we selected Clady, as it would then solve a little depth issue at OG. I do not think Hochstein is adequate backup for a length of time, and if Neals' injury is serious, as I floated in another thread, I'd consider moving Kaczur to RG if we draft Clady and or Neal is out for a while.

CB: I really think that if the season started today, we'd probably be adequate at CB. Whatever we get now, whether its Law and or some draft picks, is bonus and upgrade. But we're working from a strong base.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Injuries.. where it cost the Pats.

How do you figure that losing Morris hurt the Patriots badly?

I am genuinely interested in why you think this because, while his being out for the year hurt the Patriots, it didn't cost them the way that losing Colvin did.

It seemed to me that when Morris went down, the offense became more one-dimensional.
It did'nt seem like Maroney made up for Morris's lost carries. Like once Morris got hurt, they put Maroney in mothballs for a while.
I don't know if the statistics back this up, just my perception.
Losing Colvin certainly hurt badly, but I've been wanting to sing Morris's praises for a while.
I hope Morris is back at 100% next year.

 

[JoeSixPat]

In previous years (2001-2004), the Patriots had the depth on the team to overcome any injury that was thrown their way. However, it would seem that hasn't been the case recently. Particularly at linebacker. In 2006, Seau going down cost the Patriots dearly and it was certainly a contributing factor to them not being able to beat the Colts in the AFCCG. In 2007, depth at Linebacker was a factor after Colvin went down. In 2005 and 2006, depth at RB was also an issue.

Other than linebacker and quarterback, what position do you think that lack of depth could cost the Patriots dearly.

OT - If Light were to go down, I have no faith that Kaczur could move over and be effective. I also don't believe that Britt or O'Callaghan could step in there.

OG - Hochstein is acceptable, but I think the Pats could get an upgrade over Yates. Yates just doesn't seem to have a mean streak in him. And the loss of Neal during the SB was definitely felt.

NT - There really isn't a true back-up to Wilfork. Mike Wright and LeKevan Smith are both better at 3-4 DE. Santonio Thomas still hasn't earned a spot on the roster out of training camp and he's out of options.

CB - I think that, with an effective pass rush, a combination of Sanders Webster and Richardson could hold their own. Without an effective pass rush, the Pats are screwed.

I think part of this concern is the trend that other teams have picked up on the Patriots MO of securing quality depth - and that whereas other teams in the past have invested their salary caps primarilly in starters (that is, they've overpaid) the Patriots made a point of doing a better job of spreading the wealth to attract the 2nd tier guys.

Then add to that good coaches and a good system that got more out of those players and you had a team that was able to win a Super Bowl even with injuries in the secondary and elsewhere.

I don't think the Patriots moved away from that model so much as they had more competition for such players - especially when the salary cap inflated post 2006.

Now that things have settled down a bit from the Post-new CBA inflation, I think we're seeing BB's offseason moves going back to using free agency primarilly for depth (though I also think there weren't many players worth over paying for this offseason).

I think the move to bring in Capers also speaks to BB's view about getting more out of his existing players.

 

[ALP]

other then QB? its Wilfork all the way