NFLN: Jason Taylor doesn't envision being a Dolphin

[RussFrancis]

Man, I just have a feeling. Id heard a report on NFL network this morning, Total Access, which btw Im sorry I dont have a link for, just reiterating that Taylor himself doesnt envision playing in Miami in the fall. We know Parcells came out a few days ago and said, oh no, he's gonna be a Dolphin in the fall, and if he werent, he'd be retiring. That's lip service. You dont come out and talk about your premier player retiring. Parcells is simply securing Taylor's trade value. And I believe it was Schefter that reported it (sorry, I was working, and only listening and not watching), that the Tuna was only preventing NE from getting Taylor for 'free' without having to give up any picks if they want him.

Taylor's been playing some great Dend for Miami for years, but coming to NE, he'd probably play right OLB. The move would allow Thomas to slide back inside, and it would also give NE a little more flexibilty with their #7 pick without feeling the pressing need of going LB early. Now, he's a little older. But the man has not missed or lossed a step, imo. And he hasnt missed a game in 8 years. In fact, since his 2nd year in the NFL, he's started in atleast 15 games every year for 10 years. I think he could drop and cover in our scheme blindfolded.

So, the question would be, how many picks and how much cash? The Pats had $22mil under the cap to spend prior to Moss' signing. And his cap figure for '08 is only 6 or 6.5, I forget which. And we'vte signed a few others for probably no more 6 or 7 mil. I think we still have around 10 under the cap. Are you guys on board for Taylor for a 2nd or a 3rd at about $6mi per?? I know I sure am. Take a corner or a Dback with that 1st pick, a young backer or lineman with the next one, ink Taylor for 3 years, and come back firing next season nastier than before. Could be a draft day deal. Could happen sooner. May not happen at all. But I think it's going down. I know the Taylor discussion has floated. But now, its a little clearer that he's getting moved after hearing this. talk to me about where youre at with Taylor in the fall.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: Jason Taylor

Are you guys on board for Taylor for a 2nd or a 3rd at about $6mi per??

As I understand it, we'd need to restructure something pretty seriously to get $6 million to pay him, sign our draft picks, and sign whatever other FAs or RFAs we're looking at. I don't think the number you gave of $10 million under is right -- people were throwing around numbers like $5 or $6 million yesterday.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

As I understand it, we'd need to restructure something pretty seriously to get $6 million to pay him, sign our draft picks, and sign whatever other FAs or RFAs we're looking at. I don't think the number you gave of $10 million under is right -- people were throwing around numbers like $5 or $6 million yesterday.

Right, that 10 figure was ballparking. Moss was I believe 6, Gaffney 2, Brushchi probably 2.5, Webster, Washington and others I just dont know. Taylor would no doubt restructure his deal to come to NE. Probably do a good base deal with incentives. Dealing with the cap is really the least of my worries on this thing. They'll figure it out. Getting the man in the uniform is the meat and potatoes. Everything else will take care of itself. I just wanted to guage again whether or not people were on board with the idea, or they were just looking forward to getting ahold of Vernon Gholston. Its a tough question.

 

[homerpatsfan]

Re: Jason Taylor

taylor deffinately a belichic guy, would be welcome in my eyes,dont know about the $$$$

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: Jason Taylor

The move would allow Thomas to slide back inside, and it would also give NE a little more flexibilty with their #7 pick without feeling the pressing need of going LB early...

RussFrancis,

I don't think Thomas likes ILB. I don't think Vrabel liked it either. Thomas is the best overall athlete on our defense and he seems best served playing a position that utilizes his speed. He played really really well at OLB in the SB...and I'd like to keep him there.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Jason Taylor

JASON TAYLOR COMING TO THE PATRIOTS IS A NON-STARTER. They will never, ever, EVER trade him here. Especially after the Welker thing. Stop the madness. Please.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

RussFrancis,

I don't think Thomas likes ILB. I don't think Vrabel liked it either. Thomas is the best overall athlete on our defense and he seems best served playing a position that utilizes his speed. He played really really well at OLB in the SB...and I'd like to keep him there.

That's a good point, and why Im pretty torn on this possibly happening. Thomas is solid on the outside. And Im not exactly familiar with what he actually likes more than the other. I know this much. Its tough to find good ILBs for the 3-4. Especially in the complicated NE system. It takes a certain build. A certain level of football intelligence. And certain amount of experience. Its interesting. If he werent to hate the position inside. But I agree that if that's the case, it may not be the best idea moving him inside. But Taylor is a heckuva a player. And in the end, football is football. But imagine Taylor and Thomas and Vrabel all on the field at the same time. Scary.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

JASON TAYLOR COMING TO THE PATRIOTS IS A NON-STARTER. They will never, ever, EVER trade him here. Especially after the Welker thing. Stop the madness. Please.

Im telling you, Schefter or whoever it was on NFL Network mentioned NE specifically regarding where he'd go. And the Tuna isnt going to pull a knucklehead Jets move and not trade him somewhere just because he's scared. Nothing scares Bill. If he can get a deal for his guy, he'll do it. That team's in no position to compete anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor

It is simply too expensive for what we get.
We would be spending a ton of moeny for the 'right' to play Adalius Thomas out of position, and how much of an upgrade is Taylor over Thomas? I dont know if he even is an upgrade.
Spending 6 mill, or whatever it is, in order to 'replace' Thomas with a similar player and move Thomas out of position, is just a waste of money, IMO.
I think we need to focus on how to fill the holes we have with players that fit them, rather than 'name' players who would force our best player out of position.

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: Jason Taylor

That's a good point, and why Im pretty torn on this possibly happening. Thomas is solid on the outside. And Im not exactly familiar with what he actually likes more than the other. I know this much. Its tough to find good ILBs for the 3-4. Especially in the complicated NE system. It takes a certain build. A certain level of football intelligence. And certain amount of experience. Its interesting. If he werent to hate the position inside. But I agree that if that's the case, it may not be the best idea moving him inside. But Taylor is a heckuva a player. And in the end, football is football. But imagine Taylor and Thomas and Vrabel all on the field at the same time. Scary.

All good points. I think it is scary because we think of blitz situations with 3 great pass rushers on the field at one time (not even including our superb Dline). However, JT is a great pin the ears back and get after the QB player (like a Dwight Freeney) but can he do that one down and run stop the next if that is what the play asks him to do?
The reason I question if AD or Vrabel really dislike playing inside is the physical beating they sustain. I think it takes a serious toll on them...but like you said, we really don't know how they FEEL about it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Jason Taylor

I believe the two all salary years remaining on his contract are also $8M+ or so. I do think Taylor wants to come here and would do something to alter that (and he would have to or Bill wouldn't do it). But I also think he is naive to think Tuna will release him knowing that.

On the other hand, I doubt Miami wants to spend that money on a player who may undercut the Tuna in the locker room. He tends to like to clean house and insert his guys or youngsters he can terrorize so that he becomes the face of whatever franchise he is turning around. Huyiezenga or his new partner who will be the next full owner may yet get involved. Taylor has been the face of their franchise for so long they don't want to totally alienate him either.

If they did do a trade Tuna could still spin it as a win for Maimi long term even if that trade was to us - because we would be giving up something too. There only other option in that event is to trade him to some other contender, albeit not in their division, and you'd have to sell him on that since he'd have to restructure for most anyone and be willing to play for them. How it goes will depend in the final analysis on what Taylor is willing to do AND SAY, and if he is willing to go toe to toe with Tuna publicly.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

It is simply too expensive for what we get.
We would be spending a ton of moeny for the 'right' to play Adalius Thomas out of position, and how much of an upgrade is Taylor over Thomas? I dont know if he even is an upgrade.
Spending 6 mill, or whatever it is, in order to 'replace' Thomas with a similar player and move Thomas out of position, is just a waste of money, IMO.
I think we need to focus on how to fill the holes we have with players that fit them, rather than 'name' players who would force our best player out of position.

With all due respect to Thomas, he's not Jason Taylor. He's not a 6time ProBowler, 4 time All Pro, and former Defensive Player of the Year just a year ago. Taylor would absolutely be an upgrade. Thomas is a LB. In a 3-4 scheme, the ILB is not your prototypical ILB as in a 4-3. The guy'd still be able to get after the passer a ton, but we need some athleticism and playmaking on the inside. How much did you love seeing that play he made in the SD game, picking off the pass and taking it the distance? How much of that did we see from that position after he moved outside? You just cant have enough playmakers.

Im not suggesting paying Taylor a major contract. This entire situation would hinge on him playing at the standard 'shot at the ring' discount. But Im not incredibly worried about Thomas playing 'out of position'. Now, if the guy HATES playing inside, that's one thing. But our D was ripping teams up with him on the inside.

 

[mojocaster.com]

Re: Jason Taylor

It is simply too expensive for what we get.
We would be spending a ton of moeny for the 'right' to play Adalius Thomas out of position, and how much of an upgrade is Taylor over Thomas? I dont know if he even is an upgrade.
Spending 6 mill, or whatever it is, in order to 'replace' Thomas with a similar player and move Thomas out of position, is just a waste of money, IMO.
I think we need to focus on how to fill the holes we have with players that fit them, rather than 'name' players who would force our best player out of position.

my exact opinion. Thanks for saving me the typing

 

[LloydBraun]

Re: Jason Taylor

I predict Taylor comes here for the Raiders 3rd and a 5th. The team has a 3-5 year window where they have a legit chance of winning the SB. Taylor will re-structure his deal and Tuna will give the veteran what he wants while getting back draft picks.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

I predict Taylor comes here for the Raiders 3rd and a 5th. The team has a 3-5 year window where they have a legit chance of winning the SB. Taylor will re-structure his deal and Tuna will give the veteran what he wants while getting back draft picks.

I was thinking along these exact lines. Hanging on to that 2nd rounder and getting Taylor would work for me. But youre right about he immediate window, realistically. In a couple of years, this team will be without Moss, Harrison, Bruschi, Faulk and god knows who else. We've been on the cusp for the past 3 years. I see Taylor about as close to a Moss type of defensive acquisition as we could hope for.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor

With all due respect to Thomas, he's not Jason Taylor. He's not a 6time ProBowler, 4 time All Pro, and former Defensive Player of the Year just a year ago. Taylor would absolutely be an upgrade. Thomas is a LB. In a 3-4 scheme, the ILB is not your prototypical ILB as in a 4-3. The guy'd still be able to get after the passer a ton, but we need some athleticism and playmaking on the inside. How much did you love seeing that play he made in the SD game, picking off the pass and taking it the distance? How much of that did we see from that position after he moved outside? You just cant have enough playmakers.

Im not suggesting paying Taylor a major contract. This entire situation would hinge on him playing at the standard 'shot at the ring' discount. But Im not incredibly worried about Thomas playing 'out of position'. Now, if the guy HATES playing inside, that's one thing. But our D was ripping teams up with him on the inside.

Thomas and Taylor are different players. The biggest disaster in the FA era is to sign guys and pay them based on what they used to be. Taylor isn't bringing 6 por-bowls and a player of the year here, he is bringing the player he is NOW. On top of that he earned those awards as a 43 DE, and as a younger man.
Thomas is better suited to OLB than ILb, and is better suited to OLB than Taylor is.
Thomas is bigger and holds up better at the point of attack. Thomas is better in coverage and more versatile.

You can pretend it wont cost a ton of money for Taylor, but thats unrealistic.

I can think of a whole lot of better ways to spend 6 mill than to take a position of strength, add a guy who is arguably at best a small upgrade, and move another player out of position.

If OLB is A Thomas' best position why would you use limited cap space for a move that force him to play a different position that he is not best at?

If there were no cap, the answer may be different, but any decision under a cap has to made considering the alternative use of the money.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Jason Taylor

JASON TAYLOR COMING TO THE PATRIOTS IS A NON-STARTER. They will never, ever, EVER trade him here. Especially after the Welker thing. Stop the madness. Please.

I'll preface this statement with this: I have no opinion one way or the other on whether or not Taylor will or will not come here.

But my thoughts on this subject differ from yours. How many high producing years do you think Taylor has left? 2 maybe 3, IMO. Does anyone think that Parcells truly believes that they will legitimately be competing for a SB within the next 2 years? I don't believe he does, so why not send a guy to the highest bidder regardless of what team it is. It would be in the best interest of his franchise.

 

[RussFrancis]

Re: Jason Taylor

Thomas and Taylor are different players. The biggest disaster in the FA era is to sign guys and pay them based on what they used to be. Taylor isn't bringing 6 por-bowls and a player of the year here, he is bringing the player he is NOW. On top of that he earned those awards as a 43 DE, and as a younger man.
Thomas is better suited to OLB than ILb, and is better suited to OLB than Taylor is.
Thomas is bigger and holds up better at the point of attack. Thomas is better in coverage and more versatile.

You can pretend it wont cost a ton of money for Taylor, but thats unrealistic.

I can think of a whole lot of better ways to spend 6 mill than to take a position of strength, add a guy who is arguably at best a small upgrade, and move another player out of position.

If OLB is A Thomas' best position why would you use limited cap space for a move that force him to play a different position that he is not best at?

If there were no cap, the answer may be different, but any decision under a cap has to made considering the alternative use of the money.

Randy Moss. Junior Seau. Rodney Harrison. Corey Dillon.


These guys were all great players before they came to New England. And there are others to a lesser degree. These 4 stand out. Jason Taylor is a player of this caliber. He was voted the league's best defensive player just one year ago. And we all know he has NOTHING to do with that team sucking. This is a guy NOT on the downside of a career. Its a great player on a bad team that will be looking to play for a winner. And he'll probably break his back for his new team trying to get that ring. Now, if his best years were 6 or 7 years ago, Id agree with you. He had his best year 1 year ago. He fits the mold. Believe me.

And again. I keep hearing this talk that Thomas cant play the inside. This team was beating teams by 20 and 39 every week with him on the inside. The depth was unbelievable. How could the team possibly suffer by moving such an incredibly talented and athletic player on the inside, an obvious upgrade, while also upgrading the OLB position? And its just my humble opinion, but Taylor at the OLB would be an upgrade. If its about the money, I understand. But Im sure if this thing develops, Taylor will be full aware of a financial sacrifice he'd have to make. And Id bet every toe on each foot that he'd do that.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Jason Taylor

My gut feel is that Miami coaxes Brett Favre out of retirement for the Jason Taylor for Brett Favre trade to go through. I see that much more likely to happen than I see Taylor in a Patriots uniform next season.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Jason Taylor

I predict Taylor comes here for the Raiders 3rd and a 5th. The team has a 3-5 year window where they have a legit chance of winning the SB. Taylor will re-structure his deal and Tuna will give the veteran what he wants while getting back draft picks.

I predict, accurately, that threads like this and posts like this exemplify how far patsfans.com has fallen. A 3rd and a 5th? Come on, people, please. This is asinine.