OPINION: OUR 3rd, 4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

I went back and reread it. It still appears to say that Chad Jackson deserves a season in the 2 spot. I disagree with that. Perhaps that isn't what you meant.

If I implied that, or even worse said it, I disagree with myself too. The word "deserves" probably loads that meaning into the whole sentence. Why don't we say, see what he's got.

In any event we have options at 2, and our 2 sure doesn't have to be a 1a/1b type of 2.

PFnV

 

[nittanylions52]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

Ever take 10 seconds to think as to why nobody picked up on it in the other thread?

Ever hear that Cinci has said no to a trade multiple times in the last few months?

Ever read that when he may have been on the market, Cinci wanted a 1st rounder?

Ever realize that just because you add more picks together in a trade the value does not necessarily increase?

Ever think that the value you proposed for Johnson is absolutely ludicrous for Cinci to consider? (Before you cite Moss, read and understand that CJ is still producing at a high level and there are no questions regarding his performance level. There would be no risk involved, all return)

Ever realize that the Pats have no need to give up picks that BB/SP have classically been good at using so that our team can get younger and faster as team?

Ever realize that the NFL is not fantasy football?

THANK YOU. Holy crap, people. Some of you have no idea how to think, do you? A 3rd, 4th and 5th? Even if you used the early 3rd, that would only add up to a late second round pick. That's a terrible trade and Cincinnati would never do it.

The trade for Moss sure did spoil people on here. It's like the Pats don't need to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder to get anyone.

3rd and a 4th for Peyton Manning? Why not? He's probably disgruntled. Trade a 3rd to Minnesota for Steve Hutchinson and Adrian Peterson? They'd take it, why not?

Man, it's just getting stupid at this point.

 

[dhamz]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

If I implied that, or even worse said it, I disagree with myself too. The word "deserves" probably loads that meaning into the whole sentence. Why don't we say, see what he's got.

In any event we have options at 2, and our 2 sure doesn't have to be a 1a/1b type of 2.

PFnV

But come on!!! Ocho Cinco fits perfect!!! He'll come in and be happy catching 50 balls!

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

If we get WR Bryant Johnson that'll be a coup and no draft picks required.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

But come on!!! Ocho Cinco fits perfect!!! He'll come in and be happy catching 50 balls!

Yeah and he came over and said "PULL MY FINGER!" to Belichick in our Cinci game last year!!! He HAS to sign him now!

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: OPINION: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

Please, stop the insanity.

 

[pao]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

Trades don't affect supplemental picks.
Teams overpaid for Samuel,Stallworth and Gay ie 2nd,3rd,3rd guestimate in 2009...
Colvin?
Wilson?

3rd is the highest supplemental. No seconds. You won't get a 3rd for Stallworth or Gay. Maybe Samuel if he has a good year and gets some post season recognition.

pao

 

[jct]

OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

Ok all you self proclaimed Know it alls:

Chad Johnson is arguably MUCH better than Moss.
Who threw to him?
Who threw to Moss?
Compare those stats.
What if Moss gets injured?

Draft picks are ALWAYS a crapshoot.
Less so with BB/SP
We traded a second for Dillon our late 3,4,5 is at best worth a late 2nd
or we probably will hit on 1 possibly 2 developemental/or backups?

But I am just a fan with 1 opinion... Only BB/SP knows the truth...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

3rd is the highest supplemental. No seconds. You won't get a 3rd for Stallworth or Gay. Maybe Samuel if he has a good year and gets some post season recognition.

pao

Actually, given his contract's AAV (annual average value), I think it should be a 3 unless something bizarre happens.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

If he is going to be our shut down corner, yes, but other than that hell no

 

[MassPats38]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

Ok all you self proclaimed Know it alls:

Chad Johnson is arguably MUCH better than Moss.
Who threw to him?
Who threw to Moss?
Compare those stats.
What if Moss gets injured?

Draft picks are ALWAYS a crapshoot.
Less so with BB/SP
We traded a second for Dillon our late 3,4,5 is at best worth a late 2nd
or we probably will hit on 1 possibly 2 developemental/or backups?

But I am just a fan with 1 opinion... Only BB/SP knows the truth...

If Johnson is on the market, I suspect Belichick would dump a 2nd to get him. The point of most of the posters here is Johnson ain't on the market, and there is no indication he will be. Johnson's contract pays him dirt and he seems to have a Dillon attitude at this point which means he would take a sweet deal well below his market value to leave the Bengals. As such, he would be a steal, which is why the deal would never happen.

As for him arguably being much better than Moss, Carson Palmer has a career 90 rating and Rudi Johnson has consistently provided a greater running threat than the Pats have put forward to favor receivers. The Bengals have had one of the better receiving offenses in the NFL for the last several years. While I do not think Palmer is Brady, he is no slouch. As such, and answering this question hypothetically as I see no chance of this trade happening, I would not expect his statistics to blow up with the Patriots.

 

[ATippett56]

Sorry but no one picked this up in the other misguided thread.

Sorry but no one picked this up in this thread .....

You're a blithering idiot!

 

[jmt57]

Besides the fact the Bengals would want a better deal, like a 1st and 3rd ...
Besides the fact that Johnson already wants the ball thrown to him more often than he already gets it, and he would now get it less ...
Besides the fact that with Johnson in the lineup, Moss would not be as happy with the number of throws his way ...
Besides the fact that the Pats undoing on offense at the end of the season was relying too heavily on the pass ...

This conjecture has (just like in the other thread) ignored this over-looked but very important factor that the NFL has this thing called a SALARY CAP!

The reason certain teams like the Patriots have winning seasons year after year is in part because they avoid deals like this, and spread the available money throughout the roster as much as possible. To put that much money in one poition is insane; it forces you to weaken yourself by not being able to add quality at other positions such as LB and CB. You also end up with no choice but to go with more players at lower contracts or league minimums, which hurts your depth - in a game where injuries are inevitable.

If I'm not mistaken, the Bengals would also take a salary cap hit too; about $8 mil as I recall - giving them another reason to not want to make the trade.

Look at the (lack of) success of the Lions, Redskins, and Cardinals when they played fantasy football with their NFL rosters. Compare that to what the Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers have been able to accomplish with their receivers this decade.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

If Johnson is on the market, I suspect Belichick would dump a 2nd to get him. The point of most of the posters here is Johnson ain't on the market, and there is no indication he will be. Johnson's contract pays him dirt and he seems to have a Dillon attitude at this point which means he would take a sweet deal well below his market value to leave the Bengals. As such, he would be a steal, which is why the deal would never happen....

I disagree wholeheartedly. I have no backup for this, but I doubt very seriously that Chad wants to get out of his rookie deal and go straight into a "discount" deal. The next deal Chad signs is going to be for as much as he can get. If he takes a "discount" it would be as a partial offset for the money a team pays out in cash to defray the Bengals' cap hit, if that is even possible to do.

Just because we have been able to score a couple of guys in "prove-it" contracts, does not mean we can automatically do that with every receiver who we cast our covetous eyes on.

As such, it makes sense to pursue those who WILL make that trade-off... but I think it's early for Chad talk. Give him until later in his career, when it's all about the ring.

PFnV

 

[MassPats38]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

I disagree wholeheartedly. I have no backup for this, but I doubt very seriously that Chad wants to get out of his rookie deal and go straight into a "discount" deal. The next deal Chad signs is going to be for as much as he can get. If he takes a "discount" it would be as a partial offset for the money a team pays out in cash to defray the Bengals' cap hit, if that is even possible to do.

Just because we have been able to score a couple of guys in "prove-it" contracts, does not mean we can automatically do that with every receiver who we cast our covetous eyes on.

As such, it makes sense to pursue those who WILL make that trade-off... but I think it's early for Chad talk. Give him until later in his career, when it's all about the ring.

PFnV

The discount is premised on his repeated accolades for the New England organization and Belichick, as well as his stated desire to play for a competitior. If that talk is merely window dressing, I would agree. Given how low his contract numbers are now, if a trade were offered he would have poor leverage if his desire were to leave Cincy for a winner rather than get big money. It is certainly just as likely he hates his salary level and wants the coin. I have no expertise in Chad Johnson's actual motivations, so I place little confidence in the certainty of my assessment were a deal to develop.

As far as "later in his career", I was surprised to learn Johnson is already 30 (I thought he was mid 20's), thus he will be 33 at the end of his current contract. I would be surprised if he could command huge money at that point.

Again, I view this as a hypothetical as I cannot see Cincy dumping a consistent 1300+ yard receiver, regardless of how disgruntled he may be (also considering Cincy has minor disciplinary issues and Johnson appears to be one of the few receivers who may not be donning penitentiary stripes in the near future). We may as well discuss a trade for Torry Holt, Steve Smith or Reggie Wayne as it is likely just as probable the Pats acquire one of them by trade.

 

[nittanylions52]

Re: OUR 3rd,4th, 5th for Chad Johnson (incentive laden contract)

If Johnson is on the market, I suspect Belichick would dump a 2nd to get him. The point of most of the posters here is Johnson ain't on the market, and there is no indication he will be. Johnson's contract pays him dirt and he seems to have a Dillon attitude at this point which means he would take a sweet deal well below his market value to leave the Bengals. As such, he would be a steal, which is why the deal would never happen.

As for him arguably being much better than Moss, Carson Palmer has a career 90 rating and Rudi Johnson has consistently provided a greater running threat than the Pats have put forward to favor receivers. The Bengals have had one of the better receiving offenses in the NFL for the last several years. While I do not think Palmer is Brady, he is no slouch. As such, and answering this question hypothetically as I see no chance of this trade happening, I would not expect his statistics to blow up with the Patriots.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that Cincinnati would laugh BB out of town if all he offered was a 3rd, 4th and 5th for the trade. Maybe if NE gave up their 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders for all of eternity to the Bengals. Maybe not even then. Just because someone is disgruntled doesn't mean their team owner is going to go Al Davis and do everything they can to get rid of them.

 

[PrairiePat]

Chad Johnson is a 'me first' loudmouth who sulks when the ball doesn't come his way often enough. We have 2 All-Pro caliber receivers already, and a solid 3rd in Gaffney. We set the league record for scoring last year with essentially the same crew.

Why are we even discussing this? Let's talk about getting a new OT (either side), or some LBs or CBs!