Steelers extend Roethlisberger with 8-year, $102M ($36M guaranteed) deal [merged]

[MoLewisrocks]

No financial info yet. Will be interesting to see since Brady is ripe for an extension into his retirement years and this is likely the year to do it before a potential opt out of the CBA complicates contract structure.

He struggled with Faneca last year, will be interesting to see how he fares this season without him and with no new tall target. And with Cleveland positioning itself to take over that division, Ben will be under pressure to earn whatever they give him.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

 

[wiggins!]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Micahel Smith - ESPN.com: 8 year 102 million contract - includes more than 36 million in guarantees.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Micahel Smith - ESPN.com: 8 year 102 million contract - includes more than 36 million in guarantees.

And, I'm hoping for their sake, a clause about riding motorcycles sans helmet.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Micahel Smith - ESPN.com: 8 year 102 million contract - includes more than 36 million in guarantees.

8 Years! Wow, That's very optimistic.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Ben sold himself WAY short.

Wow, I can't believe his agents made him sign for that.

Ben will be making $2 million more than Asante.

He's a $15 mill a year QB in this market.

Carson Palmer is a $18 mill.

Brady is a $22 milion QB in this market.

I'm only using the previous metrics. Manning signed for $15 million a year when the cap was at $80 million. It's gone up 50%, so that $15 million is now $23 million, which is the top of the world for elite QBs like Manning and Brady. Next rung down is Palmer.

I never thought I'd say this, but Manning's contract seems decent right now. He's only scheduled to earn $19 and 20 million in the next two years.

Ben Roethlisberger just signed for short money.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Micahel Smith - ESPN.com: 8 year 102 million contract - includes more than 36 million in guarantees.

That would appear at first blush to bump Ben comfortably into the top 5. But the devil is in the details. Manning's signing bonus on his 2004 deal was $34.5M but he took home upwards of $37M in the first 3. Tom's split signing/option bonuses totaled $26.5M but he too took home around $36M in the first 3. Manning and Brady are exponentially better than Ben though... AAV wise it's $12.75 per but the last 2 years are likely salary backloaded dummy seasons. Mannings AAV is $14M while Tom's was only $10M.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Ben sold himself WAY short.

Wow, I can't believe his agents made him sign for that.

Ben will be making $2 million more than Asante.

He's a $15 mill a year QB in this market.

Carson Palmer is a $18 mill.

Brady is a $22 milion QB in this market.

I'm only using the previous metrics. Manning signed for $15 million a year when the cap was at $80 million. It's gone up 50%, so that $15 million is now $23 million, which is the top of the world for elite QBs like Manning and Brady. Next rung down is Palmer.

I never thought I'd say this, but Manning's contract seems decent right now. He's only scheduled to earn $19 and 20 million in the next two years.

Ben Roethlisberger just signed for short money.

Please, just stop. You seem to have little or no grasp of contracts or cap.

Manning is "earning" $11.5M this season, the rest of his cap hit is bonus amortization because his first 4 years of hits averaged $8.7M and now the opposite is occurring to account for his actual cost. Here is Palmer's deal with an AAV or $13M and a 2014 backend salary of $14M. He likely averages around $12M+ per over his first 3 seasons too. His bonus or guaranteed money for practical purposes was $31.75M. The extended him in part to LOWER the cap hits remaining on his rookie deal.

"Under the reworked deal, Palmer will get a $15 million bonus -- paid on Feb. 16 -- and a base salary of $6.75 million next season. The Bengals owe him a $9 million option by Jan. 1, 2007; they'll have the option of letting the rest of the deal take effect or nullifying it at that time, but have to pay the same amount either way.

His base salaries will increase during the deal, topping out at $14 million in 2014. He'll also get $1 million roster bonuses for each of his last three seasons, bringing the total amount of the reworked, nine-year deal to $118.75 million."

 

[NE39]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

If Big Ben gets $36M in guarantees, Brady should get about $50M in guaranteed money.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Please, just stop. You seem to have little or no grasp of contracts or cap.

Manning is "earning" $11.5M this season, the rest of his cap hit is bonus amortization because his first 4 years of hits averaged $8.7M and now the opposite is occurring to account for his actual cost. Here is Palmer's deal with an AAV or $13M and a 2014 backend salary of $14M. He likely averages around $12M+ per over his first 3 seasons too. His bonus or guaranteed money for practical purposes was $31.75M. The extended him in part to LOWER the cap hits remaining on his rookie deal.

"Under the reworked deal, Palmer will get a $15 million bonus -- paid on Feb. 16 -- and a base salary of $6.75 million next season. The Bengals owe him a $9 million option by Jan. 1, 2007; they'll have the option of letting the rest of the deal take effect or nullifying it at that time, but have to pay the same amount either way.

His base salaries will increase during the deal, topping out at $14 million in 2014. He'll also get $1 million roster bonuses for each of his last three seasons, bringing the total amount of the reworked, nine-year deal to $118.75 million."

I understand it very well.

You seem confident in your analysis, but of course you leave out the fact that Manning signed that contract many years ago, and back then he averaged $15 mill a year. I looked up the cap at the time. It was $79 million.

This is pretty basic reasoning. What would you rather have? Two Pro Bowl CBs the likes of Asante Samuel or one Tom Brady. That's precisely why Brady is worth $20 million a year when the salary cap is at $120. The best QB in football is easily worth $15-20% of the payroll. Ben sold himself for 10% of it. DUMB.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

He's getting $36 million in guarantees. That is crazy. That is nearly double the guarantees that Samuel just got.

Apparently, Ben isn't as concerned about winning as Brady is. Brady didn't want to choke the Pats cap and took less than market value. Roethlisberger has no such concerns. He seem to only caring about choking his wallet.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

He's getting $36 million in guarantees. That is crazy. That is nearly double the guarantees that Samuel just got.

Apparently, Ben isn't as concerned about winning as Brady is. Brady didn't want to choke the Pats cap and took less than market value. Roethlisberger has no such concerns. He seem to only caring about choking his wallet.

I'd guess that Ben is pretty concerned with winning.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

I'd guess that Ben is pretty concerned with winning.

Yeah, the battle of the bank account. Boy did he win that one.

 

[nittanylions52]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

I don't see Big Ben as being that great of a QB. Then again, I don't like the Steelers.

However, I don't see how it's so dumb to sign that. In the big picture, he's making more in two or three years than ten of us on here will ever see in our lifetimes.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Yeah, the battle of the bank account. Boy did he win that one.

Huge $$'s - I just don't think he's worth it. He's got a ring, but that whole season was built on the back of the run, I mean who expects to win the Super Bowl with 123 yards, 2 INTS and NO TD's. Yikes.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Huge $$'s - I just don't think he's worth it. He's got a ring, but that whole season was built on the back of the run, I mean who expects to win the Super Bowl with 123 yards, 2 INTS and NO TD's. Yikes.

probably the same people who expect to win a superbowl with a qb going 16/27 with just 145 yards and only 1 td.

There is no doubt, the Superbowl was the worst game Ben had played up to that point in the playoffs (well maybe the game against the Pats was worse when Harrison made a great play on the ball and took it back for six.)

Its a risk signing Ben to this long term high dollar deal. But the Rooneys wanted to lock him in, and not have to worry about QB for many years to come. Being the first 1st round QB drafted by the Steelers since Bradshaw, they already put their eggs in his basket. I for one hope they made the right decision. I can tell you this, I trust Ben, when the game is on the line, I've seen him drive us down field to win a game and never worry he is going to make the bone head throw, I trust him more than I have trusted any Steelers QB in a very very long time. Take a gander at some of our QBs, Mark Malone, Blackledge, Maddox, Stewart, Brister, Odennell, and you can pretty much see, we needed the "franchise guy" win or lose, he is our QB.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

I'm only using the previous metrics. Manning signed for $15 million a year when the cap was at $80 million. It's gone up 50%, so that $15 million is now $23 million, which is the top of the world for elite QBs like Manning and Brady.

That is assuming that Manning's contract was reasonable and therefore a good place for all contracts to start. If you use Brady's as a reasonable baseline (I believe it had an AAV of like 12 million a year in new money, and it was signed a couple years later) then things change completely.

I'm not saying that brady's should be the baseline. I'm just wondering why manning's should.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

I understand it very well.

You seem confident in your analysis, but of course you leave out the fact that Manning signed that contract many years ago, and back then he averaged $15 mill a year. I looked up the cap at the time. It was $79 million.

This is pretty basic reasoning. What would you rather have? Two Pro Bowl CBs the likes of Asante Samuel or one Tom Brady. That's precisely why Brady is worth $20 million a year when the salary cap is at $120. The best QB in football is easily worth $15-20% of the payroll. Ben sold himself for 10% of it. DUMB.

The Patriots believe a franchise QB is worth 10-12% of payroll at the midline. You don't remotely understand the cap. Manning's deal averages $14M over the entire 7 years before his voidable seasons. His first 4 cap hits averaged $8.7M per, and they only average in the high teens to low twenties now because Polian deferred the impact of bonus payments as far as he could. But the fact remains he has NEVER earned $18M a year. After pocketing his $34.5M signing bonus in 2004 his first three years salary totaled $2M. In years 3 and 4 he got $1M in salary and $9M and then $10M roster bonuses that were pro rated to lkeep his cap lower than his deal averages. His average earnings through the first 4 years was $14M. This year in year 5 of the deal his salary (he is all done with bonus money) is $11.5M which "drags" his average down to $13.5M over 5 years. He is now 33. He has 2 unvoidable years remaining on his deal with salary only of $14M and $15.8M (and two voidable years at $14M). If they extend him soon to get around the cap as opposed to absorbing those hits, which they likely will since he can void the last two seasons simply as a means to guarantee he sees that money rather than having to depend on being healthy/productuve enough to earn it, the deal will likely be crafted around guaranteeing his 3 more $14M+/- seasons in the form of his bonus for extending. He's not going to get $60M to extend to 40.

It's a similar formula for Tom, only he's a year younger. Both have been durable, but Tom has taken a lot more hits that have impacted us late in a couple of seasons. He will get his extension and it will guarantee he continues to see his present actual average or a little more for another 3 years, with some additional minimum salary guarantees in his out years that Manning didn't get. Neither of them will ever see actual earnings in the $20M per range, although Polian's handling of Mannings current deal may dictate his caps never see mid teens let alone single digits ever again.

As much as the cap has risen, top corners were getting $8-9M AAV deals as far back as Ty's heyday and Champ Bailey under fractional caps. Ty got $16M in signing bonus before we won a Superbowl. Compared to the cap, the top value of the position hasn't risen so much as lesser players are seeing that money and more players are seeing more guaranteed money than ever. That is what a flush cap ends up doing more than anything. Makes GM's feeling flush act stupid.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

Huge $$'s - I just don't think he's worth it. He's got a ring, but that whole season was built on the back of the run, I mean who expects to win the Super Bowl with 123 yards, 2 INTS and NO TD's. Yikes.

I'm really puzzled by people who don't see how good this kid is. As for "being built on the back of the run" I seem to recall Pittsburgh having no run game in the playoffs, and Roethlisberger carrying them to the Bowl with his passing. Wasn't he the leading rated passer that playoffs, Super Bowl included?

The kid does a 104 season rating with their poor excuse for an offensive line, and you're debating if he's worth it? You've got to be joking. He's probably the best of that young group of guns coming up behind Brady and Manning.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

The Patriots believe a franchise QB is worth 10-12% of payroll at the midline.

Carson palmer is a franchise QB. Eli Manning is a franchise QB. Tom Brady is the best QB in the league. If he demanded the same percentage as Manning, the Patriots would've given it to him. Plain and simple. If indeed the Patriots pay Randy Moss $10 million (which is equal to Brady's contract) it's not because they feel star WRs are worth just as much as the best QBs in the league. It's because that's what the market demands. So you can say they only value QBs at 10% or whatever, but they've never been tested in that regard because Brady isn't greedy. Right now on the open market Tom Brady is worth $20 million, as is Peyton Manning.

You don't remotely understand the cap.

I understand the cap perfectly. Do you ever get tired of insulting people?

The figure I used for Manning was $15 million. The total amount of his contract divided by the years equals $15 million average. Just do the math. You'll see that Peyton has been getting paid 15% of the cap, averaging less than $15 million at the beginning, averaging more than $15 toward the end. That's how you get to an average of $15. To figure out his actual percentage you would have to take the salary cap over the contract, add each year up, divide by the number of years to get an average cap, and then divide Peyton's average salary by the average # of cap year. That would give you Peyton's percentage of cap. I guarantee you that it would be higher than 15% of the Colts' total, and if you take more than 15% of this year's salary cap and give it to your QB, you arrive at $20 million per in TODAY'S numbers, which is the figure I'm working with.

10 characters

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT Kinda of: Steelers extend Ben

That is assuming that Manning's contract was reasonable and therefore a good place for all contracts to start. If you use Brady's as a reasonable baseline (I believe it had an AAV of like 12 million a year in new money, and it was signed a couple years later) then things change completely.

I'm not saying that brady's should be the baseline. I'm just wondering why manning's should.

Because he's the highest paid QB in football.

If I were running a team and he were available, would I offer him $15 million? Yes, instantly.

If I had a choice of, say, signing Shawne Merriman and Asomugha to $7.5 million contracts each or paying Peyton Manning $15 million, I'm giving the money to Manning. I'm convinced that Brady gets $18 at least on the open market.