The Attributes of a 23 TD Wide Receiver

[Tyler.Durden]

I hope he comes back...

Unmatched athletic ability 1-on-1
Great Hands
Height
Stretch the field like no other

Things he lacks
Route Running ability at the highest level
Strength
Desire to run crossing routes
Mentality, not a-typical of a patriot
YAC on short passes

Are his greatest abilities going to make his type of game less effective than a TO type receiver sooner?


Do you think the pats would have resigned Stallworth or Asante if they knew Moss wasn't going to resign?


I think the pats offense can be quite effective and efficient without Randy, just not explosive or record breaking.

All questions I'm sure have been asked and answered already, and yes another moss thread.

Would you be less upset today if the pats didn't resign Randy than you would have been 2 days ago?

 

[Jimke]

I hope he comes back...

Unmatched athletic ability 1-on-1
Great Hands
Height
Stretch the field like no other

Things he lacks
Route Running ability at the highest level
Strength
Desire to run crossing routes
Mentality, not a-typical of a patriot
YAC on short passes

Are his greatest abilities going to make his type of game less effective than a TO type receiver sooner?


Do you think the pats would have resigned Stallworth or Asante if they knew Moss wasn't going to resign?


I think the pats offense can be quite effective and efficient without Randy, just not explosive or record breaking.

All questions I'm sure have been asked and answered already, and yes another moss thread.

Would you be less upset today if the pats didn't resign Randy than you would have been 2 days ago?

The Pats probably made offers to Stallworth and Samuel for what they
thought they were worth. When the offers were rejected, the Pats
walked away from these players.

I think the Pats' offense will struggle without Randy Moss, especially so
if Jabar Gaffney is not re-signed. This may be the third year in a row
that Brady has to work with new receivers. Brady must be envious of
Peyton Manning having the same receivers year after year.

Most fans are probably numb by now over the Randy Moss situation.

I'd like to be the fly on the wall in Bob Kraft's office on Monday. I
wonder how many e-mails and faxes are there from irate season
ticket holders. Not only a 30% increase in their tickets (additional
18 mil. for Pats) but the possible loss of a 23 TD receiver as well.

 

[oldskool138]

Here's the problem I have with Moss put brilliantly by the folks at Patriots Daily:

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/

"That aside, there’s something else. Doesn’t it seem like Moss is less a player than he is an intoxicant? How do you NOT make him the focal point of your offense? His incredible hands, his uncanny ability to establish position when the ball is in the air, his still-there explosiveness - how do these things NOT become the answer to every challenge you face?

The same kind of thing has overwhelmed coaches before. Denny Green had some threatening teams in Minnesota, but in the end, weren’t they over-reliant on chucking the ball up to Moss? And Mike Tice - the Randy Ratio says it all. Yet it was never enough.

I might argue that the wheels started to come off the Pats wagon when they fell into the same trap. Certainly in the axle-busting loss to the champion Giants. Without the ability to easily put the ball in Moss’s hands, there was suddenly nothing Super about those Perfect Pats. Gradually, everything else broke down around it.

That’s how addictive Randy Moss’s game is - it even took down the mighty Bill Belichick. In the end, the Patriots were too much about offense and not enough about defense and special teams, leaving a decided list in the proverbial three-legged stool.

If he returns, how does that change? How do the Pats become a balanced team again with such a dominant presence in their midst? How does it NOT become all about Brady and Moss again?"

 

[Tyler.Durden]

But i think people don't realise that the top 20 players on the pats roster all could get more money elsewhere, but if you want rings and to work with great coaches you have to take less money.

Hopefully Ben Watson is healthy next season, if he can replicate what he did in the first 8 or however many games it was it will make things easier, plus welker will get a few more touches as well as establishing our running game.

There is light there.

Many people said welker was just as if not more important than moss last season.

 

[cblesz]

Here's the problem I have with Moss put brilliantly by the folks at Patriots Daily:

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/

"That aside, there’s something else. Doesn’t it seem like Moss is less a player than he is an intoxicant? How do you NOT make him the focal point of your offense? His incredible hands, his uncanny ability to establish position when the ball is in the air, his still-there explosiveness - how do these things NOT become the answer to every challenge you face?

The same kind of thing has overwhelmed coaches before. Denny Green had some threatening teams in Minnesota, but in the end, weren’t they over-reliant on chucking the ball up to Moss? And Mike Tice - the Randy Ratio says it all. Yet it was never enough.

I might argue that the wheels started to come off the Pats wagon when they fell into the same trap. Certainly in the axle-busting loss to the champion Giants. Without the ability to easily put the ball in Moss’s hands, there was suddenly nothing Super about those Perfect Pats. Gradually, everything else broke down around it.

That’s how addictive Randy Moss’s game is - it even took down the mighty Bill Belichick. In the end, the Patriots were too much about offense and not enough about defense and special teams, leaving a decided list in the proverbial three-legged stool.

If he returns, how does that change? How do the Pats become a balanced team again with such a dominant presence in their midst? How does it NOT become all about Brady and Moss again?"

This is perfect. Best evaluation I have seen. Balance...that is what the team needs and they will not achieve that if Moss is back at ridiculous amounts of money...

 

[stinkypete]

I posted a similar thought earlier, but it bears repeating. The money Randy Moss probably wants ($10-$11 million per year) represents 10% of our total cap room. That's 10% of our cap on a single player. During the championship years, the WRs as a unit didn't use up 10% of the cap combined!

In 2007, it felt like the Patriots were the big spenders, but the Thomas deal was the only one that broke the bank. As much as the Moss/Stallworth/Walker/Washington deals were hyped, the four players COMBINED to earn about $12 million. Moss is likely asking for close to that himself. Throw in Tom Brady's cap charge and the Brady to Moss connection would take up 20% of the teams cap space.

Now as fans we must ack the question, is it worth committing $10 million in cap space to keep Randy Moss around? Earlier in the year I would say yes, but as the post above pointed out, we've been intoxicated by the effortless grace of the 2007 Patriots offense, circa October. After watching the playoffs, I'm not so sure. Moss was essentially shut for 3 games. For a guy who wanted so desperately to play for a winner, he disapeared at the worst possible time.

I think the Patriots have waited on Moss because they understand the difficulty of this decision. Locking up Moss, while affordable now, will limit the team's cap manuverability in future years. Is it worth keeping Moss if it means losing Vince Wilfork or Logan Mankins in a couple years? Can/will Moss come up big in big games next time around? On the other hand, can this team contend for a championship with a recieving corps of Welker, Gaffney, Jackson, Washington, and a FA, perhaps Bryant Johnson or DJ Hackett?

 

[Xzibit23]

Here's the problem I have with Moss put brilliantly by the folks at Patriots Daily:

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/

"That aside, there’s something else. Doesn’t it seem like Moss is less a player than he is an intoxicant? How do you NOT make him the focal point of your offense? His incredible hands, his uncanny ability to establish position when the ball is in the air, his still-there explosiveness - how do these things NOT become the answer to every challenge you face?

The same kind of thing has overwhelmed coaches before. Denny Green had some threatening teams in Minnesota, but in the end, weren’t they over-reliant on chucking the ball up to Moss? And Mike Tice - the Randy Ratio says it all. Yet it was never enough.

I might argue that the wheels started to come off the Pats wagon when they fell into the same trap. Certainly in the axle-busting loss to the champion Giants. Without the ability to easily put the ball in Moss’s hands, there was suddenly nothing Super about those Perfect Pats. Gradually, everything else broke down around it.

That’s how addictive Randy Moss’s game is - it even took down the mighty Bill Belichick. In the end, the Patriots were too much about offense and not enough about defense and special teams, leaving a decided list in the proverbial three-legged stool.

If he returns, how does that change? How do the Pats become a balanced team again with such a dominant presence in their midst? How does it NOT become all about Brady and Moss again?"

The failure of the Minnesota Vikings when Moss was there had nothing to do with their offense and everything to do with their pathetic pass defense. And to pin the failure of this year's Patriots on some over-reliance on Moss when in the playoffs they were the exact opposite is ludicrous. People need to learn what they're talking about(not you, the author)

 

[VJCPatriot]

But i think people don't realise that the top 20 players on the pats roster all could get more money elsewhere, but if you want rings and to work with great coaches you have to take less money.

Hopefully Ben Watson is healthy next season, if he can replicate what he did in the first 8 or however many games it was it will make things easier, plus welker will get a few more touches as well as establishing our running game.

There is light there.

Many people said welker was just as if not more important than moss last season.

Seymour got 24M in bonuses and his contract averages 9.33M per year over its lifetime.

You can't tell me that Moss is just as important to our offesene, if not more, than Seymour is to our defense.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-02-salaries_N.htm

I say pay moss the 15M signing bonus, and if you're really worried about the cap hit, spread it out over more years. You can even put a little funny money in the last year of the deal to satisfy his agent's ego.

45 M 5 years, 15M signing bonus. And it's affordable.

        Year1 Year2 Year3 Year4 Year5
Bonus---3m----3m----3m----3m----3m----
Salary--5m----5m----5m----5m----10m----

 

[richpats]

This is perfect. Best evaluation I have seen. Balance...that is what the team needs and they will not achieve that if Moss is back at ridiculous amounts of money...

That being said, the loss of Sammy Morris (and the health of Maroney) sort of forced NE's hand in becoming a predominantly passing offense. With Morris in the fold in the playoffs, NE could have focused gameplans on a more balanced attack, though Maroney did well down the stretch.

I agree that our commitment to getting the ball to Moss deep did cost us some points in the Super Bowl.

 

[oldskool138]

I agree that our commitment to getting the ball to Moss deep did cost us some points in the Super Bowl.

It was part of the litany of problems...'cause as we all know you need to have time to throw deep and Tom didn't have enough time do anything let along launch a deep, accurate pass.

If Moss comes back at a team friendly price, good. But I do miss my grind-it-out, dink-and-dunk, defense first Pats of the past.

 

[patpatriot]

You can't tell me that Moss is just as important to our offesene, if not more, than Seymour is to our defense.

Why not? Why did they go and get him in the first place?

 

[richpats]

It was part of the litany of problems...'cause as we all know you need to have time to throw deep and Tom didn't have enough time do anything let along launch a deep, accurate pass.

I don't know why the Pats thought they could throw it deep often after that Week 17 game. The Giants' pass rush was giving me chills and a healthier Brady managed to barely elude it.

 

[Xzibit23]

Guys, I'll say it again, the Pats didnt rely on the deep ball in the playoffs. Do you guys not remember that Moss was used as a decoy primarily, if anything Brady started looking away from Moss a little too much, especially against Jax and SD. Suddenly when its convenient to blame the playoff failure on Moss' presence we make it seem like Brady was always looking for the deep ball?? Cmon, lets not rewrite history here.

 

[oldskool138]

Cmon, lets not rewrite history here.

The last Pats series of the SB, what did they do?

I'm not here to reopen healing wounds so that's all I'll say about the SB.

 

[Xzibit23]

The last Pats series of the SB, what did they do?

I'm not here to reopen healing wounds so that's all I'll say about the SB.

LMAO...are you serious?? Your evidence is the last series when they got the ball with 30 seconds and were in full desperation hail mary mode?? Cmon, you can do better than that.

 

[oldskool138]

LMAO...are you serious?? Your evidence is the last series when they got the ball with 30 seconds and were in full desperation hail mary mode?? Cmon, you can do better than that.

Okay how about on 4th and 13?

 

[richpats]

The last Pats series of the SB, what did they do?

I'm not here to reopen healing wounds so that's all I'll say about the SB.

The 4th-and-13 and the last series were situations where they shouldn't have thrown deep. They could have gotten three 15-yard gainers and would have been in FG range.

 

[Xzibit23]

Okay how about on 4th and 13?

That was OBVIOUSLY more about their lack of faith in the kicker instead of some crazy notion that they have Moss so lets heave it. I haven't heard anyone interpreting the team going for it on 4th and 13 as a Moss related decision, because frankly they would like to give the coaching staff of a professional football team more credit than that. Even IF there was a legitimate claim that the Pats going for it on 4th and 13 was somehow Moss influenced, thats a much, much bigger indictment on Bellichicks coaching than Moss is talent. If your argument is that they should've gone for a shorter pass, you cant ignore the big plays Moss provides and then point to the times they try to get to him that fail as a reason not to have him. At the end of the day, 23 TDs doesnt need justification.

 

[Xzibit23]

The 4th-and-13 and the last series were situations where they shouldn't have thrown deep. They could have gotten three 15-yard gainers and would have been in FG range.

So Moss is at fault for the decision making of the offensive coordinator and head coach?? Once again, you guys are cherry picking scenarios where they tried to get him the ball and failed, you cant do that. You can pick any player on the team, Brady included, and find a group of poor decision plays involving that player. And lets not forget, if Brady's pass at the end is a little longer, you guys are bowing down to Moss right now. At the end of the day though, the moment you start placing value on players by looking at isolated plays or even isolated games, you're making a mistake, and I'm sure Bellichick would be the first person to say that.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

atypical is spelled without a hyphen.

It means the opposite of "typical."

If something is "not atypical of a Patriots receiver," that means it is typical of a Patriots receiver.

Just thought you'd want to have the information handy.

Thanks,

PFnV