Free Agent Linebacker Question

[nepatz11]

I think we are 2 LB's from having a pretty good linebacking corps. I think we need a fast, young stud who I hope we will get in the draft. But I also think we DESPERATELY need someone to fill the Ted Johnson role. We need a reasonably well rounded, big RUN STUFFING beast in the middle like Ted Johnson was. That is what our defense has been desperately missing the past few years. My question is what free agents fit that bill?

 

[KevinFaulk-33]

I think we are 2 LB's from having a pretty good linebacking corps. I think we need a fast, young stud who I hope we will get in the draft. But I also think we DESPERATELY need someone to fill the Ted Johnson role. We need a reasonably well rounded, big RUN STUFFING beast in the middle like Ted Johnson was. That is what our defense has been desperately missing the past few years. My question is what free agents fit that bill?

Chillar? Hobson?

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Clark Haggans maybe? Steelers fans say he has some game left but they dont need him with all the youth they have at LB.

 

[Rob0729]

Chillar? Hobson?

Chillar could be a sleeper. Many people feel that he is more of a 3-4 LB than what he was played in St. Louis.

Don't forget Calvin Pace is still a free agent. If the Pats were willing to convince him to take less and come to the Pats, it wouldn't be the first time the Pats stole a free agent like this from under someone else. See Adalius Thomas and Rosey Colvin.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Chillar could be a sleeper. Many people feel that he is more of a 3-4 LB than what he was played in St. Louis.

Don't forget Calvin Pace is still a free agent. If the Pats were willing to convince him to take less and come to the Pats, it wouldn't be the first time the Pats stole a free agent like this from under someone else. See Adalius Thomas and Rosey Colvin.

Pace will end up either in New york or in Miami.

 

[KevinFaulk-33]

Chillar could be a sleeper. Many people feel that he is more of a 3-4 LB than what he was played in St. Louis.

Don't forget Calvin Pace is still a free agent. If the Pats were willing to convince him to take less and come to the Pats, it wouldn't be the first time the Pats stole a free agent like this from under someone else. See Adalius Thomas and Rosey Colvin.

I think that Pace can be too expensive.

 

[stinkypete]

I think Haggins will be a fine fit on this defense. A 5 man rotation of Thomas, Vrabel, Haggins, Bruschi and Seau is still pretty solid.

I agree that we've missed the Ted Johnson type run stiffing ILB. I like Jonathan Goff to fill that roll. He's got goot speed and does not miss tackles. Pick him with that early 3rd round pick, grab Cliff Avril to be the situational pass rusher/long term Colvin replacement and this LB corps will be rock solid.

 

[nepatz11]

yeah we desperately need a run stuffing middle LB who can play in the 3-4 a la Ted J.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Clark Haggans maybe? Steelers fans say he has some game left but they dont need him with all the youth they have at LB.

This is who I'm curious about. Pace is way to expensive, but I think a veteran who's not that old and has played his career in a 3-4 is the obvious pick. I really havent followed his game much, I've been under the impression hes been more solid then anything. Nothing great, but a solid line backer. Can someone tell me the real deal?

 

[SeanBruschi54]

This is who I'm curious about. Pace is way to expensive, but I think a veteran who's not that old and has played his career in a 3-4 is the obvious pick. I really havent followed his game much, I've been under the impression hes been more solid then anything. Nothing great, but a solid line backer. Can someone tell me the real deal?

DE coming out of college (colorado) was backup behind long time Steeler Jason Gildon. When he started in 2004 his time and play showed well. From Steeler fans he was one of the best defensive players they had during 2005 (their Super Bowl run). Is consistent as they come.

Not a guy that will make all the plays but a guy he will make key plays.

 

[DW Toys]

This is who I'm curious about. Pace is way to expensive, but I think a veteran who's not that old and has played his career in a 3-4 is the obvious pick. I really havent followed his game much, I've been under the impression hes been more solid then anything. Nothing great, but a solid line backer. Can someone tell me the real deal?

I think Bobby Carpenter can be had for a #3 (our second #3?)from the Cowboys. They already gave away his number. He could be a Vrabel story. Has skills. decent speed (maybe the fastest LB we would have) and is superb ST guy. Can play inside and out. Lost his job because of an injury situation he could never get back.

I think the Pats are looking at Carolina FA ILB Dan Morgan if his health checks out. He is still young and solid when healthy. Should be cheaper than Pace. An alternative would be Al Wilson. Fast with good coverage skills.

This pair would help our D and get younger and faster, But we need more than that. Our middle defense was a struggle. Safety James Sanders is purely a second stringer and very slow. He just cannot cover anybody. As said on the NFL Network, BB needs to change the secondary (and LB coverage) and get faster. Sanders is very slow and a liability in coverage.

My wish list FA/Draft would include a trade for Oakland Safety Michael Huff. The Raiders are shopping him for picks. He is fast and good on coverage. He is about 210lbs so he can step in at SS. He is a decent tackler and can cover. He is very fast. His CAP space might hurt a bit (Miguel?) but he can be a long term SS starter here with Merriweather as FS. He'll cost us at the least a two (perhaps a fifth as well).

Now we still have a CB issue. We know Falcon CB D. Hall is available but at what cost and how much to up his contract? I swap out #7 for a package of two high picks (say a late one and two). Swap out just gained first rounder for D. Hall and maybe our own fourth. Now we have a stud CB with more skill than Assante.

Next to help out CB scenario bring Law back at a realistic cost. Resigning Moss is gonna cost (must happen) but I think Hall plus the existing contact of Huff are the most expensive after that. But we save $ dumping the #7 and fewer draft choices.

So in my interesting 08 FA/Draft season team adds in my thoughts are;
1-We swap our #7 for a later first and second round trade.
2-We swap out that late first and our fourth for D. Hall.
3-We use the high number two to draft a young CB (Cromartie?).
4-We swap our original second rounder and our fifth for SS Huff.
5-We swap our later third rounder for LB Carpenter (can play ILB or OLB)
6-We draft a solid ILB in round three (Lehman?)
7-We use our sixth for a WR/KR (Dexter Jackson) who runs great routes (like D. Branch?) and can take over return duties, or draft a needed TE here.
8-We draft a RB who can catch and move the pile (like South Carolina RB Cory Byrd could be a steal) in the seventh (ran a decent 4.51) or a developmental OT here.
9-We sign Randy Moss long term
10-We sign Dan Morgan or Al Wilson whoever is the most healthy.
11-We get back Law for reasonable dollars as the third CB or starter and then move Hobbs to nickle.

Hey.... this is my very possible scenario so don't hate. This would make my off-season a great one. We are now younger and faster. These moves are not impossible pending CAP.
DW Toys

 

[Joker]

D'Angelo Hall has come out on record that he does NOT want to play in N.E....so you can forget that scenario. Giving up draft picks for two LB's with injury issues? why not just use the picks to draft LB's who are HEALTHY? Plus, you make so many draft day moves you fail to account for the real possibility of doing all those "deals"...seems like a house of cards you're building...draft a bona fide starter in the 6 th round because he's a sleeper??? If YOU know about him how can he be a "sleeper"? If he has those skills you tout, he'll go rounds earlier.

anyway...send your outline with your recommendations to "New England Patriots Football Club, c/o Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick" and see what kind of response you get....hell, who knows, maybe BB will have Kraft fire Pioli and hire you.

 

[cubedoggy]

So in my interesting 08 FA/Draft season team adds in my thoughts are;
1-We swap our #7 for a later first and second round trade.
2-We swap out that late first and our fourth for D. Hall.

I like it so far.

3-We use the high number two to draft a young CB (Cromartie?).

I don't think Cromartie falls that far.

4-We swap our original second rounder and our fifth for SS Huff.

I'd loooove to see Huff in a Pats uni.

5-We swap our later third rounder for LB Carpenter (can play ILB or OLB).

An intriguing idea.

6-We draft a solid ILB in round three (Lehman?)

I'd rather Cliff Avril, but don't know if he will be there.

7-We use our sixth for a WR/KR (Dexter Jackson) who runs great routes (like D. Branch?) and can take over return duties, or draft a needed TE here.

If the FO doesn't grab a good blocking TE, like Jason Dunn, then a blocking TE is a priority at this pick in this scenario.

8-We draft a RB who can catch and move the pile (like South Carolina RB Cory Byrd could be a steal) in the seventh (ran a decent 4.51) or a developmental OT here.

In this draft, by now an OL will have been picked; but in this scenario, this would be a logical spot.

9-We sign Randy Moss long term.

Check that one off.

10-We sign Dan Morgan or Al Wilson whoever is the most healthy.

Morgan's concussion history is a worry. What about Gold?

11-We get back Law for reasonable dollars as the third CB or starter and then move Hobbs to nickle.

I, for one, wouldn't mind Tajuan returning, but HE might be the nickle.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I think Bobby Carpenter can be had for a #3 (our second #3?)from the Cowboys. They already gave away his number. He could be a Vrabel story. Has skills. decent speed (maybe the fastest LB we would have) and is superb ST guy. Can play inside and out. Lost his job because of an injury situation he could never get back.

I think the Pats are looking at Carolina FA ILB Dan Morgan if his health checks out. He is still young and solid when healthy. Should be cheaper than Pace. An alternative would be Al Wilson. Fast with good coverage skills.

This pair would help our D and get younger and faster, But we need more than that. Our middle defense was a struggle. Safety James Sanders is purely a second stringer and very slow. He just cannot cover anybody. As said on the NFL Network, BB needs to change the secondary (and LB coverage) and get faster. Sanders is very slow and a liability in coverage.

My wish list FA/Draft would include a trade for Oakland Safety Michael Huff. The Raiders are shopping him for picks. He is fast and good on coverage. He is about 210lbs so he can step in at SS. He is a decent tackler and can cover. He is very fast. His CAP space might hurt a bit (Miguel?) but he can be a long term SS starter here with Merriweather as FS. He'll cost us at the least a two (perhaps a fifth as well).

Now we still have a CB issue. We know Falcon CB D. Hall is available but at what cost and how much to up his contract? I swap out #7 for a package of two high picks (say a late one and two). Swap out just gained first rounder for D. Hall and maybe our own fourth. Now we have a stud CB with more skill than Assante.

Next to help out CB scenario bring Law back at a realistic cost. Resigning Moss is gonna cost (must happen) but I think Hall plus the existing contact of Huff are the most expensive after that. But we save $ dumping the #7 and fewer draft choices.

So in my interesting 08 FA/Draft season team adds in my thoughts are;
1-We swap our #7 for a later first and second round trade.
2-We swap out that late first and our fourth for D. Hall.
3-We use the high number two to draft a young CB (Cromartie?).
4-We swap our original second rounder and our fifth for SS Huff.
5-We swap our later third rounder for LB Carpenter (can play ILB or OLB)
6-We draft a solid ILB in round three (Lehman?)
7-We use our sixth for a WR/KR (Dexter Jackson) who runs great routes (like D. Branch?) and can take over return duties, or draft a needed TE here.
8-We draft a RB who can catch and move the pile (like South Carolina RB Cory Byrd could be a steal) in the seventh (ran a decent 4.51) or a developmental OT here.
9-We sign Randy Moss long term
10-We sign Dan Morgan or Al Wilson whoever is the most healthy.
11-We get back Law for reasonable dollars as the third CB or starter and then move Hobbs to nickle.

Hey.... this is my very possible scenario so don't hate. This would make my off-season a great one. We are now younger and faster. These moves are not impossible pending CAP.
DW Toys

Not hating, but where do I start? I dont think you understand WHY some of those guys are available to begin with. They all carry first round $$ without first round production. The only way we get guys like that around here is to trade low round draft picks AND they restructure to be cap friendly. This doesnt happen because not everyone is willing to take less $$.
That takes care of Huff and Carpenter. Hall you dont touch for the same reason you let Samuel leave, he becomes a FA next year and will walk so you are just renting a player... Law still thinks he can play and wants to get paid like it, not here he wont. Those LBs are all walking medicals, forget em. D.Jackson? He is in everyone's 6th rd, which means he will be gone by the 4th!
You seem to like big names rather than FOOTBALL PLAYERS. I think Haggans could fit into our LB rotation. Drafting a hybrid is what I am hoping for, someone that can rush the passer that would make any CB better. We lost alot of depth in FA, bringing back Moss will ease alot of apprehension right now. Remember every time a team picks up a FA they will then release someone....and the player released may be a better deal or a better fit for our team.

 

[DW Toys]

D'Angelo Hall has come out on record that he does NOT want to play in N.E....so you can forget that scenario. Giving up draft picks for two LB's with injury issues? why not just use the picks to draft LB's who are HEALTHY? Plus, you make so many draft day moves you fail to account for the real possibility of doing all those "deals"...seems like a house of cards you're building...draft a bona fide starter in the 6 th round because he's a sleeper??? If YOU know about him how can he be a "sleeper"? If he has those skills you tout, he'll go rounds earlier.

anyway...send your outline with your recommendations to "New England Patriots Football Club, c/o Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick" and see what kind of response you get....hell, who knows, maybe BB will have Kraft fire Pioli and hire you.

Joker. Do you have a link to D . Hall saying no to N.E.? The two LB's I mentioned are both FAs and no choices involved. Not looking for a starter in the sixth. Dexter Jackson is a WR/KR. Would take a TE there as well. Remember, BB is not one for rookie LB's. We will get some FA additions there.
The only "sleeper" I mentioned is Byrd from S. Carolina in the seventh. Great value there and catches very well. A bigger Faulk. I respect your comments though. Thanks.
By the way, I wouldn't mind being able to make F.O. decisions for a day, wouldn't you?
DW Toys

 

[RayClay]

Clark Haggans maybe? Steelers fans say he has some game left but they dont need him with all the youth they have at LB.

I'm sorry, could you explain that phrase, I'm confused?

 

[p8ryts]

I think we are 2 LB's from having a pretty good linebacking corps. I think we need a fast, young stud who I hope we will get in the draft. But I also think we DESPERATELY need someone to fill the Ted Johnson role. We need a reasonably well rounded, big RUN STUFFING beast in the middle like Ted Johnson was. That is what our defense has been desperately missing the past few years. My question is what free agents fit that bill?

Well if you want a run stuffer that can't cover, how about Jeremiah Trotter? I haven't seen Chillar a lot and one site claimed he had a career year and would command lots of money. Maybe Adam Seward, a teammate of Ryan Claridge in college who didn't work out for us but Seward comes from a college 3/4. Morgan is good but too injury prone. Can't count on him being on the field. Haggans is looked at as a backup. I would rather have Junior back if he can get healthy, although he is suffering from continuous injury problems the last several years.

I like ;the look of Curis Lofton from Oklahoma in the draft, small but a tank kind of like Bruschi.

 

[OldEngland]

I think we are 2 LB's from having a pretty good linebacking corps. QUOTE]

I'm going to add a wild longshot offseason theory. (please - not too much abuse for this)

I can think of two perfect LBs for our Defence- Chris Long and Jason Taylor.

Anyone who doesn't think BB may be interested in Long, read the Official NFL website scouting report on him. I think he may after been after him for years.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chris-long?id=276

I would quote bits of it, but IMHO it just doesn't do it justice. The analysis and Q and A is interesting too.

Then think that Al Groh, the LB coach for BB when he was DC/HC at the Giants, Jets and Browns has been coaching him defence in College.
He'd be learning as a rookie from Bruschi, AD, Vrabel, (maybe even Taylor and Seau). I can't think of a better environment to send your no.1 pick into than learn the game than from 4/5 multiple probowlers and HOF candidates.

There are some BIG questions with this scenario though
Could you fit it under the salary cap? Can you trade up to no.1? what about the rest of the draft? and finally ..........

Look at Miguel's roster page. 19M under and 50 players. and IMHO there's not a single bit of fat on the roster whatsoever. No injured players and not a single player who is overpaid. And this appears to agree with the point well addressed by AndyJohnson in another thread. Although the positions at LB, CB and WR are now thin.
No. 1 salary averages 10M/year!! but the rookie hit i believe will be much less (i'm sure someone can help me with that).

Taylor included with Long would solve a lot of problems on defence, and may only involve a third. (He's got a 7.5M salary this year - but the dancing on tv during preseason i'm sure would be a big factor in lowering this).

A good mid round CB, S (or both) are required, the question is, is the draft like last year, where not many selections got near our final roster (but got starts elsewhere), how many other draft picks do we need? a TE possibly? Would BB bunch up some picks and take someone like Cason to fill a need? Or does he want to keep as many as possible?

We have the 7th overall (7M/year!!), a 2nd and two thirds. The dolphins would love to move down, and we have the ammo.

So this leads to the final mystery?

Randy Moss.

There's no 10M contract in this scenario, and would explain a lot of things this offseason, including the very chivalrous non-use of the franchise tag. Here is your 2-3M Randy, all we have left of the cap, want to jump on the gravy train and play to win?

My guess TB will take a salary reduction to help keep Moss, and Moss will play for peanuts just to be part of this team. (But if he doesn't, its a straight fight for no.1, no.3 and no.4 reciever in training camp between Gaffney, Washington and CJ).

Can you fit Long, Taylor, Moss and draft picks into 19M? Probably not. But i think Beoli are going to try.

I may be dreaming and completely whistling in the wind on this one, and we'll build through the draft with the 7th, and/or pick up some good cheap FAs - but until i see Randy sign a big deal, this is my hunch. At the moment they've got the cap space to sign Moss, and they're not. IMHO BB is fishing for something much bigger.

His Captain on Defence for the final stages of the TB era, and the next 10 years!!

Finally...... BB HAS been at least around in the drafting of a high pick first round LB.

He was the Giants LB and ST coach in 1981.

2nd overall - LT.

 

[nepatz11]

does anyone have a link to a website with scouting reports with assesed strenghts and weakensses for pace and hobson

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I'm sorry, could you explain that phrase, I'm confused?

They drafted 2 young linebackers last year.

They both look like they are going to be good for them.

That is their youth...