People who don't want Moss for big $ and want to spend on defense...

[chrisfx811]

3 years has got to be the min he would take, and probably what most teams would be comfortable offering, given his age.
Any longer and it could have a bunch of garbage years/money at the end of it.

 

[GPR11788]

What did the 49ers do to keep there dynasty going?
Got the best wide receiver of all time in Jerry Rice.

When you have talent that comes once every decade, Why would you let him go?

Even if the Pats don't sign Moss, what are they going to spend on with this weak free agency.

What's weird is that they did not even protect themselves from the possibility of Moss leaving, by placing the franchise tag on him.

From what I have seen so far, they seem to be clearing cap room(hopefully to sign moss). They just cut Kyle Brady, I don't know how much he was making but that move might also be to clear cap room.

Name a defensive player that you can get this free agency, that would be better for the team than signing moss?

 

[chrisfx811]

What did the 49ers do to keep there dynasty going?
Got the best wide receiver of all time in Jerry Rice.

Salary cap wasn't introduced until 1994.

 

[GPR11788]

Where was he in the playoffs?

How about getting double and tripled, so that Brady could throw the short high percentage passes. In the Super bowl it wasn't his fault he was open many times, but the offensive line did not give Brady enough time to throw. They were out coached in the superbowl, instead of taking the short passes that seemed to work so well, I though they were going for the big play too much. Moss still had 6 catches and a touchdown catch against a tough Giants D that was playing well the whole game.

 

[GPR11788]

Salary cap wasn't introduced until 1994.

When I was taking about Jerry Rice with the 49ers, I was not making a reference to salary cap. I was just trying to say that talent of that caliber should be kept. When I was talking about the cap moves, I was just suggesting why they hadn't signed Moss yet and why they released colvin and kyle brady.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

It is using money wisely by paying for value per buck.

The team has done alright under BB so far. Unlighten me as to why you want them to change what they do. What team has done better in the last few years?

They should be doing like us, not our changing to pay "whatever it takes" to keep any one player.

Well, the Pats have also deemed that signing players like Brady and Seymour to large contracts is indeed "value per buck" and I don't see how a future hall of fame WR should not fall into the same echelon of players.

As far as the "In Belichick we trust" adage goes, though I too cater to this for the most part, he has in fact screwed up on player personnel decisions. We don't have to look all that far into the past when we saw BB and the front office enter the cut-down period of preseason with huge holes at the WR position, make a last minute desperate dash and grope at a trade for Doug Gabriel while having had ridiculous amounts of cap room to work with.

I'm in the camp that says I'd rather not see this happen again and I'm also in the camp that says Moss can play with the best of them so he should be given a contract that represents fair market value. Unless it's in the Pats brass' plans to swing a trade for Chad Johnson, there's nobody that comes close to Moss in terms of talent at the WR position in free agency. We have some cap room and the best talent is right under our noses. Get it done!

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Thinking about the Moss impasse, I don't think it's about money. It could possibly be about years. But the impression I get is that there is something that is not clicking between the two parties. Maybe the comfort level factor is not there. I dunno.

The guys that have left us by and large are just where they should be, i.e., not with us. Last year's free agent blitz spoiled too many of us, 'tis true, but this year the quality and depth are just not there.

There's ample opportunity for trades, the draft, and rookie UDFAs so we can get some things we need before camp. But let's face it - it's not like last year at all.

Still and all, it's important to remember that, in the past, we've done more with less. It's nowhere near panic time yet.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Well, the Pats have also deemed that signing players like Brady and Seymour to large contracts is indeed "value per buck" and I don't see how a future hall of fame WR should not fall into the same echelon of players.

As far as the "In Belichick we trust" adage goes, though I too cater to this for the most part, he has in fact screwed up on player personnel decisions. We don't have to look all that far into the past when we saw BB and the front office enter the cut-down period of preseason with huge holes at the WR position, make a last minute desperate dash and grope at a trade for Doug Gabriel while having had ridiculous amounts of cap room to work with.

I'm in the camp that says I'd rather not see this happen again and I'm also in the camp that says Moss can play with the best of them so he should be given a contract that represents fair market value. Unless it's in the Pats brass' plans to swing a trade for Chad Johnson, there's nobody that comes close to Moss in terms of talent at the WR position in free agency. We have some cap room and the best talent is right under our noses. Get it done!

They might be able to get Javon Walker for less than Moss but that is obviously a huge gamble. Even when healthy he's no Moss.

If you want to fault BB on off-season moves, the Doug Gabriel trade isn't a very good example. That was a low risk move out of virtual desperation. The Duane Starks/Monty Beisel debacles are far more obvious IMO.

 

[Disco Volante]

I don't understand why people are worried about the years.

In 3 years, he'll be TO's current age.

Marvin Harrison age 31-34? 49 TDs.

 

[Xzibit23]

3 years has got to be the min he would take, and probably what most teams would be comfortable offering, given his age.
Any longer and it could have a bunch of garbage years/money at the end of it.

Its not like he's 34-35..he just turned 31 two weeks ago, a 4 year contract takes him to his 35th birthday, which is what TO will be turning this year, and he's getting an extension. The elite WRs usually stay elite up until around 34-36. I know a lot of NE fans want to use Dillon as a cautionary tale but WRs stay productive at a high level much longer than RBs do, and Moss doesnt get hit like Dillon did, he's the exact opposite. .

 

[Jimke]

I hope this situation is resolved quickly before the supply of

good wide receivers dries up.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

If you want to fault BB on off-season moves, the Doug Gabriel trade isn't a very good example.

Well, in isolatation and looked upon as a one move, then yes, it wasn't that bad of a gamble. Considering the circumstances that led to that move, then I think it was indeed a terrible move. I'm sure you'll recall, we had lost both of our starting WRs and had something like $20M in cap room or whatever it was.

That was a low risk move out of virtual desperation.

And that's exactly my point.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Well, in isolatation and looked upon as a one move, then yes, it wasn't that bad of a gamble. Considering the circumstances that led to that move, then I think it was indeed a terrible move. I'm sure you'll recall, we had lost both of our starting WRs and had something like $20M in cap room or whatever it was.

And yet BB made precisely the right call on Givens and Branch. Givens spent two injury plauged seasons in Tenn. and Branch has underwhelmed in Seattle.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

And yet BB made precisely the right call on Givens and Branch. Givens spent two injury plauged seasons in Tenn. and Branch has underwhelmed in Seattle.

Yes, in hindsight he did, but I really don't think that's really the point. We can also use the same logic to say that going into the season with Caldwell, Gabriel and Jackson as the three top WRs at a critical skill position has proven to be the wrong decision given that one was cut in midseason, the other at the end and another still remain a question mark. No way should we have entered the season with such holes at such a critical position.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Yes, in hindsight he did, but I really don't think that's really the point. We can also use the same logic to say that going into the season with Caldwell, Gabriel and Jackson as the three top WRs at a critical skill position has proven to be the wrong decision given that one was cut in midseason, the other at the end and another still remain a question mark. No way should we have entered the season with such holes at such a critical position.

Branch's stubborness played a huge role in that scenario unfolding. It was in no way entirely the fault of the organization.

I think sometimes, despite the best of planning, events unfold on a path where it's impossible to alter the final outcome. When that happens, you get what you can, and it was Doug Gabriel.

That was the case with Branch, and I suspect it is going to be the case with Moss.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think the Pats should start negotiating with Stallworth, Berrian, and other top WRs. I could see that scaring Moss into signing.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Branch's stubborness played a huge role in that scenario unfolding. It was in no way entirely the fault of the organization.

I think sometimes, despite the best of planning, events unfold on a path where it's impossible to alter the final outcome. When that happens, you get what you can, and it was Doug Gabriel.

I disagree. I expect a better plan B from one of best front offices in football when they were on the verge of losing both of their starting WRs. And indeed, some of the blame goes to the players involved but some of it has to go to the front office without fans being apologist for the screw ups. You've noted that they screwed up with Monty when you treated him in isolation, but to me, that same screw up over a position occurred when we lost both Tedy and Teddy, had no back-up plan and ended up with the fiasco that were Monty and Chad at ILB. I differ from your opinion in that I don't blame the front office as much with Monty and Chad because there really was no way they could have foreseen that both of the starting ILB would be forced into retirement.

That was the case with Branch, and I suspect it is going to be the case with Moss.

I hope not and I think the situations are different in the sense that Brach had just played out his rookie contract and was looking to sign his first big contract with a decent amout of guaranteed money. After witnessing what's happened to Givens, I can't say I blame players coming out of rookie contract for holding out for the best guarnteed money deals.

With Moss, I think we can sign the guy if the offer isn't insulting. They can sign Moss and still address the defense and improve upon it.

 

[psychoPat]

Its not like he's 34-35..he just turned 31 two weeks ago, a 4 year contract takes him to his 35th birthday, which is what TO will be turning this year, and he's getting an extension. The elite WRs usually stay elite up until around 34-36. I know a lot of NE fans want to use Dillon as a cautionary tale but WRs stay productive at a high level much longer than RBs do, and Moss doesnt get hit like Dillon did, he's the exact opposite. .

Well thanks, X23!
You just destroyed my Dillon argument
before i even made it.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

You've noted that they screwed up with Monty when you treated him in isolation, but to me, that same screw up over a position occurred when we lost both Tedy and Teddy, had no back-up plan and ended up with the fiasco that were Monty and Chad at ILB.

Maybe Belichick should have turned to the "what to do when your starting ILB has a stroke in the off-season" handbook.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Maybe Belichick should have turned to the "what to do when your starting ILB has a stroke in the off-season" handbook.

LOL. Maybe you should have read my post better, and especially the part where I stated: "I differ from your opinion in that I don't blame the front office as much with Monty and Chad because there really was no way they could have foreseen that both of the starting ILB would be forced into retirement."
:bricks: