Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive!

[PatsandTrojans55]

Colvin ran a 4.9 coming out of Purdue. Long has more agility than AD has ever dreamed of. A 4.71 at 272 lbs is awesome. The combination of power, strenght and body control Long possesses is elite, and can be seen not only in workouts but in his on field play, and clearly. Merriman ran a 4.68 and 4.70, and although more explosive doesn't have Long's agility or brains. I said this during the season: if the Pats get C. Long, he will be their most talented defensive player from the moment he steps on the field as a rookie. I like Gholston and Groves too, but I'd like to see their agility drill times just to be safe before annointing them can't miss prospects.

Look, you all could salivate over Long that's fine I never said he's not a very good player. I just don't think he's better at OLB than other options in this draft and he is Absolutely not better than (potentially 2 1st rounders and a 2nd.
Also, you have some serious affection for him if you think this kid would would be the Pats most talented player as soon as they call his name!!!!!! Please, put down the crack pipe. AD is an absolute freak and WWWWAAAAAYYYYY more talented then Long. Long wouldn't start at OLB over Colvin nor Vrabel in fact he wouldn't even start on our team the first year so please on that crap. The most talented??????????? Okay Buddy.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

After today's performance, Groves will absolutely not be available in the Patriots trade down, and may not even be available at #7.

I'd take Long (you're drafting him as a LB, not a STer), but would not take Gholston. I want Groves.

Groves will be available at around 18-24. There is so much talent that the media and fans are in oooohhhhh and aaaahhhhhh mode but the scouts that have done they're job are not surprised by these guys.

Also if we draft Long he will be expected to play special teams right away as an OLB.

 

[sebman2112]

I'll admit that I still have questions about Gholston, even after watching him here at the combine. he killed the forty, long jump, and 225. But, to me Gholston seems like more of a 4-3 DE, or situational 3-4 pass rusher, and somewhat of a project if you're expecting him to be an every down 3-4 LB. He's really thick, and I actually didn't like the way he looked in that drill (the one previously discussed), but that was after watching Long kill it. I do think he sealed his place in the top 5-10 picks, but my questions regarding his coverage ability still remain.

Chris Long looks very fluid in his movement, and his change of direction was outstanding. The short shuttle (unofficially 7.02) he put up was better than Carriker's last year, his feet are quick, and he didn't take any false steps.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I'll admit that I still have questions about Gholston, even after watching him here at the combine. he killed the forty, long jump, and 225. But, to me Gholston seems like more of a 4-3 DE, or situational 3-4 pass rusher, and somewhat of a project if you're expecting him to be an every down 3-4 LB. He's really thick, and I actually didn't like the way he looked in that drill (the one previously discussed), but that was after watching Long kill it. I do think he sealed his place in the top 5-10 picks, but my questions regarding his coverage ability still remain.

Chris Long looks very fluid in his movement, and his change of direction was outstanding. The short shuttle (unofficially 7.02) he put up was better than Carriker's last year, his feet are quick, and he didn't take any false steps.

Seb,
I don't disagree with anything you said. But what it boils down to for me is do "Project" OLB prospects Gholston and Long provide better value at #7 than a player like Groves and potentially 2 other players. And the answer for me is Absolutely not. I'll take (Hypothetically) Groves who I think is a late first steal and a 2nd and 2009 first over Gholston and/or Long without even blinking. Especially since we will probably loose Asante.

 

[PonyExpress]

Look, you all could salivate over Long that's fine I never said he's not a very good player. I just don't think he's better at OLB than other options in this draft and he is Absolutely not better than (potentially 2 1st rounders and a 2nd.
Also, you have some serious affection for him if you think this kid would would be the Pats most talented player as soon as they call his name!!!!!! Please, put down the crack pipe. AD is an absolute freak and WWWWAAAAAYYYYY more talented then Long. Long wouldn't start at OLB over Colvin nor Vrabel in fact he wouldn't even start on our team the first year so please on that crap. The most talented??????????? Okay Buddy.

AD is a very good player and I have been one of those that has defended him against a lot of critics this season. But he has neither the ability to bend off the edge, nor the play to play discipline/intensity/hand usage of C. Long.

 

[primetime]

Groves will be available at around 18-24. There is so much talent that the media and fans are in oooohhhhh and aaaahhhhhh mode but the scouts that have done they're job are not surprised by these guys.

The meteoric rise of combine superstars that happens year after year says very differently.

 

[sebman2112]

I suspect Chris Long could play ILB for us too. That's a really good 40 time.

Also, Jon Goff had one of the best forty times - I'd love him inside as well.

Jon had an official 4.63 forty. I've been talking about Goff for a while on here, and it seems two of the guys I like (Groves and Goff) haven't received much love or coverage during this draft process. Goff was a consistent producer in the SEC, durable, a team leader, has a big frame, and he's intelligent. I also thought he looked good in some of the drills they've run so far.

 

[PonyExpress]

Jon had an official 4.63 forty. I've been talking about Goff for a while on here, and it seems two of the guys I like (Groves and Goff) haven't received much love or coverage during this draft process. Goff was a consistent producer in the SEC, durable, a team leader, has a big frame, and he's intelligent. I also thought he looked good in some of the drills they've run so far.

And he's a local kid, too.

 

[sebman2112]

Seb,
I don't disagree with anything you said. But what it boils down to for me is do "Project" OLB prospects Gholston and Long provide better value at #7 than a player like Groves and potentially 2 other players. And the answer for me is Absolutely not. I'll take (Hypothetically) Groves who I think is a late first steal and a 2nd and 2009 first over Gholston and/or Long without even blinking. Especially since we will probably loose Asante.

Really, I don't understand what point you're trying to make where my post(s) are concerned. I already said I don't think there is any way Long makes it to 7th overall, and I've been saying for months that I really like Groves. I've also continually said I don't want to pick in the top ten, and would really like to trade down. You're points of contention are recycled version of points I've already made within these draft threads.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

A couple of things:

1.) I think Willie ran a 4.55 coming out of USC.

2.) Did Groves run today? What did he run?

3.) A 10 foot broad jump is an impressive display of explosion. Parcells must be salivating.

4.) Goff ran a 4.6? That's not too shabby. BB has to be looking hard at this guy.

 

[PonyExpress]

A couple of things:

1.) I think Willie ran a 4.55 coming out of USC.

2.) Did Groves run today? What did he run?


3.) A 10 foot broad jump is an impressive display of explosion. Parcells must be salivating.

4.) Goff ran a 4.6? That's not too shabby. BB has to be looking hard at this guy.

Groves ran 4.57 40 according to NFLN. I can;t seem to find whether he did the VJ and agility drills.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

AD is a very good player and I have been one of those that has defended him against a lot of critics this season. But he has neither the ability to bend off the edge, nor the play to play discipline/intensity/hand usage of C. Long.

I can't stop laughing about your comparing a rookie whom may or may not be the best D-Lineman in this draft let alone a LBer to a multiple Pro Bowl, Super Bowl LBer who has played DE,OLB,ILB,S, and Corner in the NFL and your saying a College DE is more talented then him. Like I said this kid wouldn't beat out Colvin or Vrabel the first year at least if we drafted him. He's a good prospect but he is overhyped because of his lineage. And he isn't more talented than much of our defense at this point until he PROVES It.

 

[sebman2112]

The meteoric rise of combine superstars that happens year after year says very differently.

Groves had already run fast forty times, and he holds the school sack record at Auburn. He also recorded 26 QB hurries in 2007 while fighting through dislocated toes. I wouldn't at all consider him one of those "combine superstars", and maybe this will get him into the discussion at 12th-16th overall, if the Patriots were to trade down into that range. I've thought he had the talent, size, motor, attitude, strength and athletic ability to be considered that high, but his injuries in 2007 effected his stock.

I do think it's funny that he went from being considered the 2nd or 3rd DE/OLB prospect by a number of scouts (early in the 2007 season) to being considered the 6th-8th guy by some of those same scouts, when it wasn't his lack of ability, but an injury that effected him in 2007, and he's obviously healthy now.


Here are some youtube videos (seems everyone loves those now)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tGLd2LQ0w&feature=related (watch it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZCxhlRAJ78&feature=related (watch it)

I was just reading an SI.com article that has Groves as the 4th ranked LB in the draft (They didn't include Chris Long or Gholston), and they echoed some of my beliefs:

4. Quentin Groves, Auburn, OLB: The Tigers' career sack leader (26) has all of the tools to be an excellent 3-4 rush end/linebacker. Blessed with an explosive first step and excellent closing quickness, Groves is a dynamic rusher off the edge with the potential to produce game-changing plays. Although injuries slowed his production this season, Groves' athleticism and speed make him a highly coveted prospect. If Groves posts impressive workout numbers and shows that he is recovered from his nagging injuries, he may climb the charts as 3-4 outside linebacker.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/bucky_brooks/02/20/top.lb/index.html

 

[sebman2112]

Groves ran 4.57 40 according to NFLN. I can;t seem to find whether he did the VJ and agility drills.

Yea, Groves official time was 4.57 (great for a 6'3" 250lbs LB), and Goff officially ran a 4.63.

 

[PonyExpress]

I can't stop laughing about your comparing a rookie whom may or may not be the best D-Lineman in this draft let alone a LBer to a multiple Pro Bowl, Super Bowl LBer who has played DE,OLB,ILB,S, and Corner in the NFL and your saying a College DE is more talented then him. Like I said this kid wouldn't beat out Colvin or Vrabel the first year at least if we drafted him. He's a good prospect but he is overhyped because of his lineage. And he isn't more talented than much of our defense at this point until he PROVES It.

I can't stop laughing at you because you don't know talent when you see it. Predicting a college player's ability is the staple of college scouting. Why do you think so many scouts believe Long may be the #1 selection in the whole f'ing draft, to a team that plays the 3-4? Because he can't play for the Patriots? The joke's on you, genius.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I can't stop laughing at you because you don't know talent when you see it. Predicting a college player's ability is the staple of college scouting. Why do you think so many scouts believe Long may be the #1 selection in the whole f'ing draft, to a team that plays the 3-4? Because he can't play for the Patriots? The joke's on you, genius.

Actually the jokes on you my friend. Matt Ryan has been mentioned more as the consensus #1 than Long. The reason Long is being rumored as a number 1 is because Virginia plays a 3-4 and Miami has Parcells and needs a pass rush Defensive End and because everybodies trying to guess what Parcells is going to do and because they think Dorsey is not a 3-4 NT or End and they are simply guessing based on a team need not neccesarily based on talent. That why everybody had Bush to the Texans over Mario Williams. But hey nice try shedding light on it for me.

By the way if we Drafted Long would BB and Pioli say he's a starter at DE or OLB right away and that he's the most talented player they've ever drafted or that they have on defense right now as you suggest. I HIGHLY Doubt it.

 

[jeffbiologist]

WOW, just saw C.Longs combine.....WoW again! This guy is the sure fire #1 now. He was as good or better than just about everybody in just about everything...all without a SINGLE mis-step. No stumbles. No do overs. Low hips,fluid motion, good motor, great agility. To me this makes things a little more clear because NO DOUBT Miami will take him #1. We can now start putting mock drafts together below 1, no trades, no problems,no what-ifs. So much for him falling to us, trading up,etc....

 

[DaBruinz]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

4.71 isn't SLOW for a 275 lb OLB. You really need to know what you are talking about. Sheesh louise..

Gholston isn't much faster for being 20 lbs lighter. For Groves (who is also 20 lbs lighter than Long), it will be interesting to see how much speed he's lost due to his foot injury.

BTW, if you knew anything, you'd know that Chris Long isn't getting any hype because of his father. He's getting hype because he played for Virginia and Al Groh and projects as a 3-4 OLB.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches. You also need to look at the yard splits. Also, I believe the Patriots are changing they're philosophy to a more speed and playmaking ability. I believe they want athletic freaks who are also football players and they won't win with "JAG"'s or "Plug and Play players" anymore. Look at the personel acquisitions the last off-season. Speed,speed and playmakers.

What makes you believe this? Or are you just pulling it out of your arse?

A guy who runs a 4.71 - 40 at 272 lbs IS an athletic freak.

 

[sebman2112]

4.71 isn't SLOW for a 275 lb OLB. You really need to know what you are talking about. Sheesh louise..

Gholston isn't much faster for being 20 lbs lighter. For Groves (who is also 20 lbs lighter than Long), it will be interesting to see how much speed he's lost due to his foot injury.

BTW, if you knew anything, you'd know that Chris Long isn't getting any hype because of his father. He's getting hype because he played for Virginia and Al Groh and projects as a 3-4 OLB.

Minor corrections: Gholston is only 6lbs lighter than Chris Long.

Just an added note, Groves already recorded an official 4.57 forty.