PFT: Taping Practices Is Nothing New

[BPF]

Hopefully Florio is going to lead the charge and the media will start to cover this topic with a lot more balance. These are all things we've discussed here and wondered why most media members keep ignoring these stories while portraying BB like some sort of criminal.

www.profootballtalk.com

TAPING PRACTICES IS NOTHING NEW
Posted by Mike Florio on February 23, 2008, 11:32 p.m.

Regardless of whether the Patriots did or didn’t videotape the Rams’ walk-through practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI, it’s not the first time that such allegations have been raised.​

As Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports wrote in the days following the discovery that the Pats were taping defensive coaching signals during a Week One game against the Jets, the Broncos were suspected at one time of secretly videotaping Chargers practices.​

Wrote Cole: “The San Diego Chargers increased their security several years ago at a hill overlooking the practice field at the team facility during weeks when they played the Denver Broncos. Why? It turns out Broncos coach Mike Shanahan had been hiring spies to videotape the Chargers practices. The NFL had been aware of it for several years (at least one NFL official had seen one of the tapes), but didn’t step in because it was considered a team issue.”​

Such stories tend to support the rumor that Patriots coach Bill Belichick included with the materials surrendered to the league extensive evidence of cheating by other teams.​

Further bolstering the belief that the Pats weren’t the only team doing what they were caught doing are the comments of former Cowboys and Dolphins coach Jimmy Johnson. The Boston Herald has posted the transcript of a WFAN interview that we first mentioned on September 29, during which Johnson said that the videotaping of defensive coaching signals was a widespread practice.​

“I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league,” Johnson said on September 28. “Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.”​

And this kind stuff is nothing new. Way back in 1967, Lee Grosscup wrote an item for Sport magazine that delved into the issue of spying in football.​

The bigger issue with what the Patriots did against the Jets is that the Pats continued to do something that the league had specifically told teams not to do, and that the Jets decided to make a sufficiently big deal about it that it set off a media firestorm.​

The staggering penalty applied to the Patriots ($250,000 fine and loss of a first-round pick) and coach Bill Belichick ($500,000 fine) created the impression that this really was a big deal, regardless of the fact that it had been going on for an extended period of time.​

And by hitting the Pats so hard, the league backed itself into a corner. If the videotaping of defensive coaching signals compels such a harsh sanction, evidence that such things have been occurring on a widespread basis would potentially shake public confidence in the sport.​

But at a time when folks are chasing (as we think they should) the question of whether the Patriots cheated in connection with Super Bowl XXXVI or any other postseason game since 2001, we think that resources and effort also should be devoted to exploring whether and to what extent there has been cheating by other teams.​

Maybe that’s why teams like the Steelers and Eagles aren’t willing to blame spying on losses to the Pats in the 2004 AFC title game and Super Bowl XXXIX, respectively. Maybe the problem in both cases isn’t that either of the teams within Senator Arlen Specter’s territory were the victims of skullduggery. Maybe the problem is that they didn’t take enough steps to prevent themselves from being victimized by practices that were an open secret prior to Week One of the 2007 regular season.​

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There you have it - spygate in a nutshell...figures some intrepid mediot would stumble into that realization 5 months after the fact... If Florio keeps this kind of intelligent reasoning up Felger won't have any reason to have him on next week.

"The bigger issue with what the Patriots did against the Jets is that the Pats continued to do something that the league had specifically told teams not to do, and that the Jets decided to make a sufficiently big deal about it that it set off a media firestorm.


The staggering penalty applied to the Patriots ($250,000 fine and loss of a first-round pick) and coach Bill Belichick ($500,000 fine) created the impression that this really was a big deal, regardless of the fact that it had been going on for an extended period of time.


And by hitting the Pats so hard, the league backed itself into a corner."

 

[DarrylS]

Most of us have known this pretty much since the inception of this whole affair, unfortunately the press does not do its homework and has a very short memory.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

OK . . . what gives? Did the Patriots kidnap Florio and get Albert Breer to fill in for him?

Seriously, though, I'm glad that some of the mediots are finally starting to see the light.

 

[BelichickFan]

It's great that some people are starting to see the light. Unfortunately are #1 pick is gone and it's not coming back. The rest will be forgotten over time.

 

[JoePats]

"Disreputable website" my eye.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

OK . . . what gives? Did the Patriots kidnap Florio and get Albert Breer to fill in for him?

Seriously, though, I'm glad that some of the mediots are finally starting to see the light.

Sometimes I wonder if there are two people writing that site, one who hates the Pats and the other who clearly and succinctly explains the whole mess. The obvious comment that wasn't made was the widespread cheating and BB's supposed inclusion of evidence in the materials turned over to the league explains why the commissioner destroyed all the evidence, in the hope that they/league/teams/media could put it behind them rather than damage the brand, as they say.....

 

[fgssand]

The obvious comment that wasn't made was the widespread cheating and BB's supposed inclusion of evidence in the materials turned over to the league explains why the commissioner destroyed all the evidence, in the hope that they/league/teams/media could put it behind them rather than damage the brand, as they say.....

If that is the case, then why doesn't the commissioner fess up, tell spector game over and allow everybody to move on, once and for all. This will nver end, unless and until he does that.

 

[Rob0729]

What I don't get is the world is trying to dig up dirt on the Patriots because of a RUMOR that someone, possibly Walsh, videotaped the Rams walkthrough. But this rumor that the Broncos spying on the Chargers went completely under the radar.

Too bad it is Florio leading this charge. Many legitimate writers do not read his site or at least admit it. I think Peter King has admitted to doing so. I wonder if he will even mention this in his Monday Morning Quarterback.

 

[mgm79]

If that is the case, then why doesn't the commissioner fess up, tell spector game over and allow everybody to move on, once and for all. This will nver end, unless and until he does that.

I think the problem with that approach is then the investigation goes from the Patriots to the entire NFL. Specter has already made threats about stripping the NFL of their anti-trust exemption and that would help his cause I think.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What I don't get is the world is trying to dig up dirt on the Patriots because of a RUMOR that someone, possibly Walsh, videotaped the Rams walkthrough. But this rumor that the Broncos spying on the Chargers went completely under the radar.

Too bad it is Florio leading this charge. Many legitimate writers do not read his site or at least admit it. I think Peter King has admitted to doing so. I wonder if he will even mention this in his Monday Morning Quarterback.

Different Commissioner, different times as far as football media coverage which is now in 24/7 internet implosion mode, different mandate. Remember, Goodell has positioned himself as the bad cop. And because of what he had been doing to players he felt pressured to do something to a management, and what better one to spank than the upstart who had shocked the world by morphing into the first salary cap dynasty under a HC who would not squeal like a stuck pig in retaliation because that's not his style. Nor is it his owners. Nor apparently his congressional delegations.

Tags was under no such pressure in Shannahan's case since however he managed it he got a ring for Elway, which was nearly approaching a league/media mandated goal at that juncture. They barely got cuffed on the ear with a third and a fifth even after cheating the cap twice in the process of sending Elway out a winner. Tags apparently couldn't even find a reason to personally fine anyone in the Denver FO for that apparent misinterpretation of the rules...

 

[BPF]

http://www.blogtheberkshires.com/southcounty/2008/01/spygate.html

This guy seems to have complete understanding, although when he says defensive coaches he means offensive coaches. Some passages below....

These tapes are usually never seen by any of the players, according to my source. Unless he asked, Tom Brady wouldn't see the "married" tape. And it wouldn't help him much anyway. Brady generally has between 5 and 8 seconds when he steps to the line of scrimmage to read the defense and, if need be, change the play call. There is no time to look over at the opposing teams' sideline, find the defensive coach and try to see what he signals. Besides, Brady has to memorize all his teams plays and study the defensive formations he expects to see from the other side. He simply hasn't got time to process what a team's defensive coordinator is signaling.

So who does see these tapes? The defensive coaches and maybe the head coach. The signals would be cataloged and put away for the next time the two teams met. It isn't actually about knowing in advance what a team will do. It's more about using the tape as a tool to determine what a teams' tendencies are. Do they blitz on second and long? Do they put in a difference defensive package at midfield then when they are at their own 20? It's not really about knowing, during a game, what a defensive unti will try. It's about trying to guess what they will do in an upcoming game. And to be honest? The Patriots still film, legally, their opponents from the press box and try to read the signals by the defensive coordinator.

But wait. The Commissioner's office levied some heavy fines after learning of this. Doesn't that indicate that the NFL is very serious about taping violations?
Yes. See the aforementioned "hefty fine" paragraphs. My sense, too, is that while not a lot of other teams were trying this, the number was on the rise. Goodell wasn't just sending a message to the Patriots. He was sending a message to the NFL. As in "Don't screw around with this. I mean it."

So there you go. The amount of cheating involved here appears minimal. But I doubt if Patriot-haters will believe that. So be it. See you next Sunday.

 

[Rob0729]

Different Commissioner, different times as far as football media coverage which is now in 24/7 internet implosion mode, different mandate. Remember, Goodell has positioned himself as the bad cop. And because of what he had been doing to players he felt pressured to do something to a management, and what better one to spank than the upstart who had shocked the world by morphing into the first salary cap dynasty under a HC who would not squeal like a stuck pig in retaliation because that's not his style. Nor is it his owners. Nor apparently his congressional delegations.

Tags was under no such pressure in Shannahan's case since however he managed it he got a ring for Elway, which was nearly approaching a league/media mandated goal at that juncture. They barely got cuffed on the ear with a third and a fifth even after cheating the cap twice in the process of sending Elway out a winner. Tags apparently couldn't even find a reason to personally fine anyone in the Denver FO for that apparent misinterpretation of the rules...

So wasn't the Pats Super Bowl with the Rams a different commission and time? If the media and Goodell is willing to address an allegation like videotaping a walkthrough during that game, why can;t the media and Goodell start re-examining more deeply the allegation that the Broncos tried to film a Chargers practice?

 

[upstater1]

I don't care if they want to discuss spygate for the next twenty years. I just want our damn pick back! I'll gladly take our bad rep into perpetuity in exchange for that first round pick.

 

[PatsFanJess]

I don't care if they want to discuss spygate for the next twenty years. I just want our damn pick back! I'll gladly take our bad rep into perpetuity in exchange for that first round pick.

Me too...everyones hated the Pats since 03 and now they just hate us more, and amazingly I still dont give a s***. I want that pick back. its BS.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So wasn't the Pats Super Bowl with the Rams a different commission and time? If the media and Goodell is willing to address an allegation like videotaping a walkthrough during that game, why can;t the media and Goodell start re-examining more deeply the allegation that the Broncos tried to film a Chargers practice?

They could, except they don't want to any more than they wanted to get involved in this only Eric Mangini, Mike Tannenbaum, certain axe grinding members of the NFL competition committee, ESPN and a demented US Senator forced them to.

Still, at the end of the day Goodell, and his pals on the competition committee, just totally mishandled this entire incident from jump street. If they wanted to send a message to the entire league to cease and desist, which is what Goodell has at times tried to spin our penalty as, he needs to become a lot more articulate on camera (where I think he goes into brain lock) and in print. His almost painful SNF interview with Costas only fanned the flames, and his attempts to back off and restate what he meant to Costas in private were either ignored by a media jealous that he spoke only to Costas or spun after the fact as damage control.

And if he's going to utilize the competition committee as a sounding board, that needs to be treated as confidential league matters that you get canned for discussing in public or private. Because some of them had a really shortsighted alternate agenda which they were able to spin to the media because of their league standing. And because the new Commissioner allowed anger (not so much at what they did but that they did it on his watch after he thought he clearly told them through some VP to just stop) to seep into his deliberations and ooze out publicly in his initial statements. People mistook that for anger at the nature of the offense because that's kind of the way he initially spun it after consulting with the indignant phonies on the "committee". Even Upshaw totally frigged up when he allowed his desire to see some management arm punished to a level approaching player punishments cost the union a first round draft selection - a penalty some in the media even dismissed early on as one no union could sign off on since it cost the players more than it cost a team that already had two. There will only be 31 first rounders this year...

The media are sheep, and Goodell is just not a very adept sheep herder. At the end of the day he allowed this whole silly mess to be spun into way more than it ever was. Tags had a lot less face time as commissioner but behind the scenes he controlled spin deftly by selectively getting his thoroughly thought out (as the leagues former lawyer) pronouncement or spin thereof out to senior mediots to disseminate to the sheep. Sometimes the more you say about something the worse you make it, especially in this sports internet media age where too many are vying for the attention of too few and believe what you say is just the tip of the iceberg once they get a shot at parsing it.

He's not man enough, but if he wanted this to go away now and the league to move on and Specter to be rendered moot, he would revisit his own handling of the matter and decide he had actually overstated the significance of the offense and his penalty was a reflection of that and cut those fines in half and change the penalty to a third rounder in 2008 and 2009. More than what Denver faced a decade ago but less than the overkill penalty he imposed on us that sets him up to have to suspend as well as dock draft picks going forward because he's left no room should a actual serious infraction that impacts integrity occur in future. But it's not gonna happen because he just told Pac Man he still can't report back in Tennessee...probably because he's pissed that the wife of the paralyzed guy is dragging the league back into that fray based on what he apparently said to her early on without thinking either.

I have a feeling the private sector will be beckoning Roger in the near future. Some owner will facilitate that.

 

[upstater1]

Different Commissioner, different times as far as football media coverage which is now in 24/7 internet implosion mode, different mandate. Remember, Goodell has positioned himself as the bad cop. And because of what he had been doing to players he felt pressured to do something to a management, and what better one to spank than the upstart who had shocked the world by morphing into the first salary cap dynasty under a HC who would not squeal like a stuck pig in retaliation because that's not his style. Nor is it his owners. Nor apparently his congressional delegations.

Tags was under no such pressure in Shannahan's case since however he managed it he got a ring for Elway, which was nearly approaching a league/media mandated goal at that juncture. They barely got cuffed on the ear with a third and a fifth even after cheating the cap twice in the process of sending Elway out a winner. Tags apparently couldn't even find a reason to personally fine anyone in the Denver FO for that apparent misinterpretation of the rules...

This wasn't necessarily the Elway years. From what I hear, this occurred in 1999-2000, which is just a year before the Patriots 2001-2002 season which is when the walkthrough happened. If anything, 9/11 sucked up a lot of media energy so I don't see that there was much of a difference in the media landscape between the two incidents.

 

[BJ_McWild]

the frickin' hypocrisy of the PFT guy is pretty sickening. he was one of the biggest nutjobs going on about 'cheating' and 'integrity of the game' and all this.

now he decides to say 'the media wants to turn this into a story about cheating.'

go take a hike, PFT.

 

[BPF]

the frickin' hypocrisy of the PFT guy is pretty sickening. he was one of the biggest nutjobs going on about 'cheating' and 'integrity of the game' and all this.

now he decides to say 'the media wants to turn this into a story about cheating.'

go take a hike, PFT.

Initially I think you are correct but it seems as though Florio has changed his stance recently.

 

[signbabybrady]

If that is the case, then why doesn't the commissioner fess up, tell spector game over and allow everybody to move on, once and for all. This will nver end, unless and until he does that.

Yes...Goodell is and always will be the problem here. he is happy to havee this be a patriot problem and not a league problem.

Goodell imo has no clue what he is doing.

For an example of how bad he is mucking this up: Take a look at his NBA counter part David Stern and you will see a commish who was able to quickly end his controversy of the NBA ref shaving points. That scandal should have been much worse than this but Stern handled it better and was able to put it to bed.