No tag on Moss [mergedx2]

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: No tag on Moss

Franchising him might piss him off, and create bad feelings.

How is that if he apparently knows he's getting a long-term contract from them?

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Re: No tag on Moss

How is that if he apparently knows he's getting a long-term contract from them?

The contract could be pulled, and the tag allowed to stand. Its one of two things. Moss is a FA, or there is an agreement in place and it will be announced on the 29th.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: No tag on Moss

If thats true how come Indy signed Dallas Clark?

Am I missing something?


hmmm

Yes, you are missing the fact that there is a league rule that says you can't re-negotiate a contract more than once in a given league year. Moss renegotiated his deal when he was traded to the Patriots. As such, the Pats have to wait until the start of the new league year before they can sign a new deal since any deal prior to that would be considered an extension and a renegotiation of the current deal.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: No tag on Moss

How is that if he apparently knows he's getting a long-term contract from them?

Why franchise him if he knows he's getting a long term deal from them? Its a waste of the franchise tag.

 

[heathmac]

Re: No tag on Moss

If thats true how come Indy signed Dallas Clark?

Am I missing something?


hmmm

That is because Moss already restructured his contract once this year (when he was traded here) and NFL rules only allow you to restructured a contract once during the NFL year.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: No tag on Moss

Why franchise him if he knows he's getting a long term deal from them? Its a waste of the franchise tag.

It's really not a waste because we aren't going to use it anyways. Samuel was the only other one close to worthy of it, and he had the clause put in his contract that he couldn't be franchised if we won 13 games.

By franchising Moss, we guarantee a team like the Jaguars or any other team can't give his agent a call and let him know "Hey, we'll give Randy more than the Patriots did" and we aren't going to use the franchise tag anyways.

 

[JoePats]

Re: No tag on Moss

If thats true how come Indy signed Dallas Clark?

Am I missing something?


hmmm

You can't restructure a contract more than once during the NFL year.

The Pats and Moss already restructured when he was acquired.

A long-term deal counts as a re-structuring.

The Colts announced they used the tag on Dallas Clark. That is not a re-structuring.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: No tag on Moss

It's really not a waste because we aren't going to use it anyways. Samuel was the only other one close to worthy of it, and he had the clause put in his contract that he couldn't be franchised if we won 13 games.

By franchising Moss, we guarantee a team like the Jaguars or any other team can't give his agent a call and let him know "Hey, we'll give Randy more than the Patriots did" and we aren't going to use the franchise tag anyways.

But, again, all of this is assuming that Moss is open to going to other teams, when he has stated his sincere desire to remain a Patriot (not to mention that Brady and Belichick both want him to stay), and the fact that money is not much of a concern to him.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: No tag on Moss

But, again, all of this is assuming that Moss is open to going to other teams, when he has stated his sincere desire to remain a Patriot (not to mention that Brady and Belichick both want him to stay), and the fact that money is not much of a concern to him.

I do think he wants to stay here, but if a very solid team like Jacksonville is offering him significantly more money than the agreement with the Patriots is worth, are you going to tell me his agent and him wouldn't listen and his agent wouldn't be pushing him towards taking the money? Maybe, but I think it's a risk that could've and should've been avoided by tagging him.

The franchise tag, that ended up not getting used, would've guaranteed Moss is back and that a team like the Jags can't swoop in and offer massive money before the Patriots finalize their deal w/Moss.

That said, if JoePats is correct about the "you can't restructure your deal more than once a year" rule, that totally explains it and I'd say it's damn likely an agreement has been reached. I had just never heard of that rule, personally. That's all I was looking for as to what the upside was for the Pats not franchising him. I'll take Joe's word for it (the rule) and I'd imagine that is the upside.

 

[Xzibit23]

Re: No tag on Moss

But, again, all of this is assuming that Moss is open to going to other teams, when he has stated his sincere desire to remain a Patriot (not to mention that Brady and Belichick both want him to stay), and the fact that money is not much of a concern to him.

Its not that cut and dry though. His obvious preference is the Pats and he'll probably give a discount to the Pats, but he wont bend over backwards for them. I'm sure he'll be back with NE, but the possibility of him leaving to another contender does exist, although its not probable.

 

[SVN]

Re: No tag on Moss

i would be very very surprised if moss is not a patriot. Brady took the departure branch lying down, he wont this time.

 

[patsfan47]

Re: No tag on Moss

If thats true how come Indy signed Dallas Clark?

Am I missing something?


hmmm

Alright, there are three types of tags.

A. Exclusive franchise tag= no other team can contact or try to make offers to the tagged player

B. Non-exclusive= teams can negotiate with the player, the original team can either match the offer of the other team or receive two first round picks in compensation

C. transition tag= like non-exclusive version but with no compensation for the original team

Even though those are the rules of franchise tagging, the contract for a franchise tag does not have to be signed right away therefore the exclusive tag can just be used as a place holder so other teams can't negotiate with the player while the organization and said player are in long-term contract talks. Dallas Clark was tagged just in case they couldn't work out a deal in time for free agency in the mean time they managed to come to terms on a 6 year deal thus they removed the franchise tag. I think this is why you were confused, I am confused as to why we didn't just use the tag on moss to keep him in place just so he isn't tempted by someone else's huge offer.

If this is wrong anyone please feel free to correct me because I just have a vague idea of franchise tag parameters and would like to be notified if I am not correct

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: No tag on Moss

It's really not a waste because we aren't going to use it anyways. Samuel was the only other one close to worthy of it, and he had the clause put in his contract that he couldn't be franchised if we won 13 games.

By franchising Moss, we guarantee a team like the Jaguars or any other team can't give his agent a call and let him know "Hey, we'll give Randy more than the Patriots did" and we aren't going to use the franchise tag anyways.

And all Moss has to tell is agent is that he's keeping his agreement with the Patriots.

Again, there is NO NEED to use the franchise tag if he's already agreed to a contract.

Why do people assume that ALL players are ruled by MONEY?

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: No tag on Moss

I don't think it's neccessary to tag him. If they have an agreement, then why bother? To piss him off?
And if the agreement were to fall through, and we tagged him, then we have a pissed off Moss who does'nt want to be here. No thanks.
That's why I would'nt tag him.
This is not a situation where I want to force him to play here.

 

[PatsFanJess]

Re: No tag on Moss

Yup...I think it is great news that he is not tagged - had they tagged him, then no deal would be in place and it would be antibody's guess as to what would happen.

I think a nice 3 year deal is signed, sealed and ready to be delivered as soon as it is legal to announce!! :rocker:

I agree with this.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: No tag on Moss

Arent there other issue that could come into play with the tag?
I know there are time periods where you can or cannot do an extension, and I know there is an issue about if the extension is done a certain way you lose the right to tag in the future.
I'm not sure of the details, but I dont think its just a case of throwing the tag out there and it leaves no risk.
I would assume cap implications come into it as well. If you tag the player, and dont do the extension for a while, your cap holds the entire tag cost. That could affect the ability to manuever.
One of a few things is going on here.
1) There is a deal agreed upon which will be sign on or about 2/29 or
2) The Patriots are not willing to carry Moss at the cap # if he doesnt agree to an extension or
3) The Patriots are not sure they want to commit to Moss' contract demands, or
4) One of the above and Moss expressed he would create waves if tagged.

I lean toward 1, heavily.

 

[aluminum seats]

Re: No tag on Moss

I don't know, there's a part of me that thinks the Moss thing won't have a long shelf-life. Put me in the camp that whatever BB & SP decide to do here is probably the right call.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: No tag on Moss

I don't know, there's a part of me that thinks the Moss thing won't have a long shelf-life. Put me in the camp that whatever BB & SP decide to do here is probably the right call.

Yep, I agree... I think this is stuff that none of the principals are nervous about, but we are.

Now, your moment of zen:

If he wants to go, somebody will outbid us. There are 31 teams out there, some of them willing to part with enormous bucks (cough redskins cough.)

If he doesn't want to go, he ain't going anyway, unless he's completely lowballed. This team is smart enough not to do that.

My guess is that there's a deal in place ready to be sprung around the 29th as well. If not, it might be the calculation that a tagged Moss is a worst-case scenario, but I doubt it.

I view the Moss hookup as too much of a win-win for either side to piss away.

PFnV

 

[PatsFan24]

Re: No tag on Moss

Moss will be back with a 3 or 4 year deal, and will have another great season in 2008. I hope the Pats can keep Samual and get some youth at LB. That is the real worry.

 

[Snarf]

So we didn't tag anyone??

Not even Moss??