Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year [Joel Collier]

[shmessy]

From Chris Gasper in today's Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/21/progressing_toward_deal/?page=2

Collier on the outs?
The buzz here is that the Patriots and secondary coach Joel Collier have parted ways, although that could not be confirmed by team officials last night. Collier joined the Patriots in 2005. For teams looking to make changes on their staffs, specifically on defense, Dom Capers remains one of the top candidates available . . .

The secondary was the least hurt/injured of any Pats secondary over the past 7 years, yet played a laissez faire zone coverage much of the time and allowed "legends" such as AJ Feeley, Kyle Boller and Dave Garrard to have highlight film games.

Gasper's report makes some sense.

 

[richpats]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Great, maybe we won't see as many 8-yard cushions on 3rd-and-5.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Great, maybe we won't see as many 8-yard cushions on 3rd-and-5.

Merriweather did come around at the end of the season. I guess we won't know if this was a major factor until he gets replaced. But if he does the Pats will likely lose Asante so it will be hard to assess.

 

[richpats]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Merriweather did come around at the end of the season. I guess we won't know if this was a major factor until he gets replaced. But if he does the Pats will likely lose Asante so it will be hard to assess.

What kills me is teams with mediocre secondaries like the Giants can get away with playing press coverage against MOSS, WELKER AND STALLWORTH and we can't even do that with average receivers. Guess if we had a good pass rush we could press.

 

[Keegs]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

merriweather needs to catch 400 balls thrown at his face a day.

all his dropped interceptions would have sealed games.

He would be a hero on this board if he could have caught those.

 

[aluminum seats]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

I won't claim to know much about this guy, but it does bring up an obvious, but still sometimes forgotten point, that coaching really matters. The Pats had a patchwork secondary for large stretches of their Super Bowl runs--Troy Brown, Earthwind Morland, et all--and maanged well, with Mangini running the show. Let's not forget before we all hated him that he was an excellent secondary coach.

 

[GostkowSKI]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

According to the article he came along in 2005, after the patch-work job with Troy, Earthwind, etc.

 

[GostkowSKI]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Whoops my mistake, just re-read your post Aluminum. I apologize.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

From Chris Gasper in today's Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/21/progressing_toward_deal/?page=2

Collier on the outs?
The buzz here is that the Patriots and secondary coach Joel Collier have parted ways, although that could not be confirmed by team officials last night. Collier joined the Patriots in 2005. For teams looking to make changes on their staffs, specifically on defense, Dom Capers remains one of the top candidates available . . .
__________________________________________________________

The secondary was the least hurt/injured of any Pats secondary over the past 7 years, yet played a laissez faire zone coverage much of the time and allowed "legends" such as AJ Feeley, Kyle Boller and Dave Garrard to have highlight film games.

Gasper's report makes some sense.

I won't claim to know much about this guy, but it does bring up an obvious, but still sometimes forgotten point, that coaching really matters. The Pats had a patchwork secondary for large stretches of their Super Bowl runs--Troy Brown, Earthwind Morland, et all--and maanged well, with Mangini running the show. Let's not forget before we all hated him that he was an excellent secondary coach.

That spin sorta flies in the face of his team generated bio...

"In 2006, Collier's secondary contributed to a defense that set the franchise record in points allowed per game (14.81) and the defensive backfield was key in surrendering the fewest touchdown passes in the league (10). Patriots' opposing quarterbacks had the second lowest cumulative passer rating (66.1) in the league and lowest inside the 30-yard line (50.8). Collier's work with cornerback Asante Samuel helped him tie for the league lead in interceptions with 10 in 2006.

In 2005, Collier helped the secondary improve down the stretch after losing six players to season-ending injuries. In New England's last seven regular-season and playoff games, opponents averaged just 188 passing yards per game while throwing for a total of only five touchdowns. In those final seven contests, opposing teams were held to fewer than 200 total passing yards five times. The synergy that the group achieved was remarkable considering that 13 different starters were utilized during the season, including six starters at strong safety over an eight-week midseason span. Collier's tutelage helped cornerbacks Asante Samuel and Ellis Hobbs tie for the team lead with three interceptions apiece while combining to produce a total of 30 passes defensed."

Maybe he just got a better offer. Position coaches coach technique, they don't determine the scheme or personnel. We were playing the same drive the fans nuts soft zone with enormous cushions scheme in 2005 when Mangenius was the DC, although it was reported down the stretch that BB and he were butting heads over something and Bill appeared to take on a larger defensive presence down the stretch. Some wondered if that was partly why Eric decided to take that first HC job when it was offered. Of course Hawkins and Hobbs replaced the revolving door at safety and Starks down the stretch that year too...a year when we had a lot of issues at LB as I recall...

 

[cornhuskers_2002]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

merriweather needs to catch 400 balls thrown at his face a day.

all his dropped interceptions would have sealed games.

He would be a hero on this board if he could have caught those.

:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:
Amen

 

[mgteich]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Just maybe our secondary is not as good as the giants, and the jusdgement of mediocre is incorrect.

What kills me is teams with mediocre secondaries like the Giants can get away with playing press coverage against MOSS, WELKER AND STALLWORTH and we can't even do that with average receivers. Guess if we had a good pass rush we could press.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Just maybe our secondary is not as good as the giants, and the jusdgement of mediocre is incorrect.

The Giants are widely considered around football to have a less than mediocre backfield.

 

[dhamz]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

The Giants are widely considered around football to have a less than mediocre backfield.

What would you say the Patriots secondary's reputation is around football? I would say it is probably considered by most to have 3 below average cover guys starting in it.

 

[richpats]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

What would you say the Patriots secondary's reputation is around football? I would say it is probably considered by most to have 3 below average cover guys starting in it.

One analyst put it this way - "there are plays to be made on NE's secondary". Our secondary won't let an offense BEAT them, but they will give enough to make it interesting....and then some (arrrrgggghhhh)

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

merriweather needs to catch 400 balls thrown at his face a day.

all his dropped interceptions would have sealed games.

He would be a hero on this board if he could have caught those.

I hear ya brother. He needs to do some finget exercises. maybe soem fingertip pushups

 

[patpatriot]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Keegs,

There is a reason that Merriweather plays Safety and not WR.

 

[sebman2112]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

Meriweather needs to catch 400 balls thrown at his face a day.

all his dropped interceptions would have sealed games.

He would be a hero on this board if he could have caught those.

Fixed it for ya... Oh, and they won every game but the SB, so I can't see how "all his" (actually about 4) dropped INT's effected much of the seasons outcome.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

I won't claim to know much about this guy, but it does bring up an obvious, but still sometimes forgotten point, that coaching really matters. The Pats had a patchwork secondary for large stretches of their Super Bowl runs--Troy Brown, Earthwind Morland, et all--and maanged well, with Mangini running the show. Let's not forget before we all hated him that he was an excellent secondary coach.

I have said that on numerous occasions .. he was extremely good. Hopefully Belichick will go outside the orginization on this one ... we don't have time to develop a coach.

 

[pats1]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year

11 days ago, someone named Pats1 suggested this:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=794714&postcount=33

 

[Pats726]

Re: Well, THIS May Partly Explain the Lackluster Secondary Play This Year [Joel Colli

And it was a good point...then and now...we can only tell exactly what happened this year with the secondary. I agree bringing in someone established who can take charge back there would be good. The weakest third of the D is by far the secondary...although youth at LB is talked about and will ne needed.