Anyone else still think Samuel is overrated

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think that what we see from this team is an overall 'problem' that people keep trying to find a scapegoat for. Many people seem to be crying about the age of the linebackers, for example. Others bemoan the pass rush. To me, what seems glaringly apparent is that this team has no speed merchant on the defense. The corners aren't fast corners, the linebackers aren't fast linebackers, and the starting safeties aren't fast safeties. It's not that they are all snails, it's that there's not a single roadrunner in the bunch


The result of this is that "do your job" becomes more important, and freelancing kills the team defense (See Samuel, Asante v. Giants in week 17). It also results in the famous plays we see when the Patriots succeed in breaking a play down but not making the immediate tackle, such as when a QB gets flushed from the pocket.

You don't think Hobbs is fast? How come he's returning kickoffs?

Colvin is a pretty good speed rusher. AD has more top end speed like Moss versus quickness like Welker.

We need another speed rusher, even if it's a one trick pony for obvious passing downs.

 

[Deus Irae]

You don't think Hobbs is fast? How come he's returning kickoffs?

Colvin is a pretty good speed rusher. AD has more top end speed like Moss versus quickness like Welker.

We need another speed rusher, even if it's a one trick pony for obvious passing downs.

As I said, they aren't snails. But Prime Time isn't patrolling the defense for New England, either.

By the way, Hobbs, whom I'm a defender of, is one of those guys with a 40 time that has had a lot of variance. He's been clocked at 4.55 and also at 4.3. I just don't think his game speed in the current system is 4.3ish.

 

[nepatz11]

Yes people forget how in early 2005 Samuel could not even get on the field when our pass defense was awful (remember matt schaub torching us?).

Hobbs I think is so underated. Samuel is a guy who makes big plays but he gets torched a lot for it.Does that make him great? Thats why I would liek to see some stats. I think Samuel is a good CB but question if he is worth shut down money. Im definitely not saying he is a bad player.

 

[BradyManny]

I think that what we see from this team is an overall 'problem' that people keep trying to find a scapegoat for. Many people seem to be crying about the age of the linebackers, for example. Others bemoan the pass rush. To me, what seems glaringly apparent is that this team has no speed merchant on the defense. The corners aren't fast corners, the linebackers aren't fast linebackers, and the starting safeties aren't fast safeties. It's not that they are all snails, it's that there's not a single roadrunner in the bunch.

The result of this is that "do your job" becomes more important, and freelancing kills the team defense (See Samuel, Asante v. Giants in week 17). It also results in the famous plays we see when the Patriots succeed in breaking a play down but not making the immediate tackle, such as when a QB gets flushed from the pocket.

Very interesting points. And maybe that's where Meriweather comes in, as he has greater speed and is an upgrade in coverage ability over Sanders or Harrison.

And then I think another factor in this general speed issue is the loss of Colvin and moving AD to OLB. The drop off really isn't as much in Colvin to AD, it's in AD to Bruschi/Seau. AD's speed and coverage at ILB is important.

Those two factors alone (Meriweather starting and AD at ILB for the full season) will improve our defense next season, and I think will outweigh the loss of Samuel, and that's even before getting into free agency and the draft.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

 

[BradyManny]

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

Thanks for posting these #s, why do you think we wouldn't want Trufant? If his #s are similar to Samuel and he may come a little cheaper.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

This is why I think we'll be fine with Gay and some depth behind him and draft at least one rookie to groom plus you have Richardson.

It just stinks letting Asante leave for no compensation. Even the transition tag would have been nice.

Invest the money in other spots.

Did I read this correctly? So we should let Asante walk and START "Gay" and we should be just fine because our defensive weakness last year wasn't getting off the field on 3rd down. Meaning our pass rush wasn't as good as it needs to be on 3rd down and you think a Starting tandom of Hobbs and Gay will be fine with no Playmaking free safety and an aging Rodney Harrison. WOW

 

[patsfan-1982]

Thanks for posting these #s, why do you think we wouldn't want Trufant? If his #s are similar to Samuel and he may come a little cheaper.

he was one of the most thrown at CB in the nfl that may be because he was covering the outher teams best WR i dont know i did not see to manny of hes game but he is by far there best CB so why would he be thrown at so much ? i could be worng

 

[Rob0729]

Personally, I do think Samuel is overrated. He is still a very good CB, but he is not an elite or near elite CB.

The thing that concerns me most about him is late in the season, he converted back to his old self. He seemed to correct the problem with his gambling going for the ball when he should be trying to break up the play, but towards the end of the season he was making the same old poor decisions. If you are going to be a jump route type of CB, you gotta be smart about it. It seems that he got a little too daring.

I would like to keep Samuel, but probably not at what he is looking for. Personally, I believe you can have average CB especially in today's NFL as long as you have a really good front seven. I don't think a great CB can make up for deficiencies in the front seven as easily.

 

[PatsFanJess]

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

Asomugha is an incredible talent and a genuine guy. Ive heard many reports that hes a quiet guy and a team player and not someone who's just out looking for the big payday. I'm not sure if Oakland has franchised him yet...I still keep praying that somehow they screw it up ( bc they have a knack for that as of late ), and he out on the market. Def. a dream of mine that he makes it to the Pats. Love this guy.

 

[sebman2112]

Just think of it this way: Who do you get upset with more on any Sunday? I'm sure your answer is Hobbs about 5 to 10 times more than Samuel.

All of a sudden he's overrated because he's as good as gone. Please.

No, I actually don't get mad at Hobbs about "5 to 10 times more than Samuel" each sunday. I actually pay attention to the game, and understand their schemes. Also, I've thought Hobbs was underrated/picked on to much for a while, and I've thought Asante was a little over hyped for a while, too.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

It AMAZES me how many Pats Fans act like it's your money paying the likes of Asante and you people actually think the Patriots CARE if they feel like Seymour, Moss, Brady, and Asante are worth what there willing to pay.

If they cared about FAN OPINION on players then Moss wouldn't have been a Patriot.
Asante is the BEST Playmaker on defense we have and is a TOP-5 Corner PERIOD. You people calling him overrated are ABSOLUTELY Clueless on football and WAY to emotional. You are probably the same people who thought Seymour was overrated too.

And also, The days of the Patriots just plugging in average players and hoping they overachieve are GONE. We will not make a Super Bowl that way anymore. And we know that hense, Adalius and Moss, Stallworth, Welker. And why are we talking to Thomas for LB. Because with the field turf now. We need Playmakers and Speed. Not "JAG's".
PT55

 

[PatsFanJess]

Did I read this correctly? So we should let Asante walk and START "Gay" and we should be just fine because our defensive weakness last year wasn't getting off the field on 3rd down. Meaning our pass rush wasn't as good as it needs to be on 3rd down and you think a Starting tandom of Hobbs and Gay will be fine with no Playmaking free safety and an aging Rodney Harrison. WOW

Isn't this why we drafted Merriweather? I agree with you though, I dont think that starting Randall Gay is our solution....at all. I like him for depth, not as a starter. And I also agree with the other posters that think Hobbs is underrated. I get annoyed when I hear the commentators saying that hes the weak link on our secondary and hes no good. I dont understand that. This was only his 3rd season and he was hurt for a good portion of last year. I think hes extremely promising. I really like the kid.

 

[Mr.Muhozi]

IMO and I know some people will bash me for it but I think Hobbs is underrated.

i agree fully people do not rate hobbs because he is short, but he has a knack of making big time plays, and held plaxico to just 2 catches in the superbowl with 2 mild injuries not bad for a player whom many hate

honeslty i will be so scared if randell gay is our starting corner next season, he has a fetish of getting blown and raped by ok WR,

im praying we trade down and still get Mckelvin or talib, those two can be game changers

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Personally, I do think Samuel is overrated. He is still a very good CB, but he is not an elite or near elite CB.

Really,

Who do you consider "ELITE" then. You can't name 5 corners better than Asante in the League right now. You are just spouting off on emotion and not real football knowledge. He's been better the last 2 season's then the one considered the "Best" Champ Bailey. But I guess Champ is not "near Elite" neither.

 

[Deus Irae]

It AMAZES me how many Pats Fans act like it's your money paying the likes of Asante and you people actually think the Patriots CARE if they feel like Seymour, Moss, Brady, and Asante are worth what there willing to pay.

If they cared about FAN OPINION on players then Moss wouldn't have been a Patriot.
Asante is the BEST Playmaker on defense we have and is a TOP-5 Corner PERIOD. You people calling him overrated are ABSOLUTELY Clueless on football and WAY to emotional. You are probably the same people who thought Seymour was overrated too.

And also, The days of the Patriots just plugging in average players and hoping they overachieve are GONE. We will not make a Super Bowl that way anymore. And we know that hense, Adalius and Moss, Stallworth, Welker. And why are we talking to Thomas for LB. Because with the field turf now. We need Playmakers and Speed. Not "JAG's".
PT55

How long have you been Asante's agent? Given that he's arguably only the 3rd best CB available this season, behind Trufant and Asomugha, it certainly seems as if that "TOP-5 corner PERIOD" is a stretch, to put it kindly.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Isn't this why we drafted Merriweather? I agree with you though, I dont think that starting Randall Gay is our solution....at all. I like him for depth, not as a starter. And I also agree with the other posters that think Hobbs is underrated. I get annoyed when I hear the commentators saying that hes the weak link on our secondary and hes no good. I dont understand that. This was only his 3rd season and he was hurt for a good portion of last year. I think hes extremely promising. I really like the kid.

It's EXACTLY why we drafted Merriweather. But he obviously was not ready yet because the less talented Sanders was starting in place of Wilson when he got hurt at the Free and Merriweather played alot of nickle and dime. He will get there but I'm going to call him a starter just yet.

And I love Ellis Hobbs. But he's not a number 1 corner like Asante and that's not a knock on him but he's not the playmaker Asante is and I don't see the same talent level on film to make him Asante either.

 

[BradyManny]

Personally, I believe you can have average CB especially in today's NFL as long as you have a really good front seven. I don't think a great CB can make up for deficiencies in the front seven as easily.

Exactly. The Giants front four was so good, Brady didn't have time to exploit their weak secondary.

Especially the way the Pats employ their bend don't break zone, I feel like CB may be the least important position on the defensive side of the field. They just need an average CB who can keep the player in front of them.

As I said above, one of their biggest improvements is going to come in the fact that Meriweather has greater range and speed than whoever's place he takes in the starting lineup.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

How long have you been Asante's agent? Given that he's arguably only the 3rd best CB available this season, behind Trufant and Asomugha, it certainly seems as if that "TOP-5 corner PERIOD" is a stretch, to put it kindly.

Another one of our "Emotional" fans who is blind. Trufant as a previous poster stated is not that great and Asomugha is talented but his numbers are more favorable because the Raiders can't stop the run so why pass? Your CLEARLY blinded by misinformation period.

 

[BradyManny]

Another one of our "Emotional" fans who is blind. Trufant as a previous poster stated is not that great and Asomugha is talented but his numbers are more favorable because the Raiders can't stop the run so why pass? Your CLEARLY blinded by misinformation period.

Hey, aren't self-proclaimed-know-it-alls fun! :bricks: