Homework.

[wcda]

Guess its time for me to put my two cents in on this spygate mess.

From what I heard BB has compiled a profile on every coach
I was under the impression that the filming was not done to cheat but to make a profile of the defensive coordinator. It would be virtually impossible to gain any useful knowledge out of the tapes for the second half of the game. The tape showed 3 coaches calling signals so the first step if to figure out which is the correct signal. next would be to determine which signal was shown for what play etc by the time all this was done the game would be well over.. But if the tapes were analyzed at a later date and in a through fashion it would give BB and idea what to expect in a similar situation the next time they meet. To me this is not cheating but homework.

 

[patsfaninpa]

If we put a camera on 50 yard line 25 rows up and taped this stuff. It's ok. But, since we did it from the sideline. It's being treated like Watergate.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Exactly, it's a form of advanced scouting.

Problem is there are actually some teams who reportedly did figure out how to utilize this information in game. The existence of Bill's library or data bank, his statements to the commissioner and anecdotal evidence dredged up by some in the media indicates we were not one of them. But since we were conveniently caught doing the foundation taping, and since Bill has enemies both in the league and the media, and since we had 3 Lombardi's already and 2 first round draft picks coming because we're so freakin' smart, making an example of us was just too easy. Unfortunately, quite a few people didn't consider the potential ramifications of making an example of a guy with entrenched and often irrational enemies, let alone potential for collateral damage to the entire league once they themselves unleashed the hounds...

In the end this could result in seriously underscoring the old adage, be careful what you wish for...

 

[CrazyDave]

Guess its time for me to put my two cents in on this spygate mess.

From what I heard BB has compiled a profile on every coach
I was under the impression that the filming was not done to cheat but to make a profile of the defensive coordinator. It would be virtually impossible to gain any useful knowledge out of the tapes for the second half of the game. The tape showed 3 coaches calling signals so the first step if to figure out which is the correct signal. next would be to determine which signal was shown for what play etc by the time all this was done the game would be well over.. But if the tapes were analyzed at a later date and in a through fashion it would give BB and idea what to expect in a similar situation the next time they meet. To me this is not cheating but homework.

i agree. The reason for taping in the first place is to record tendancies.
Maybe we are just more thourough than other teams.

 

[JoePats]

--I just posted this in another thread but its relevant here--

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole mess:

People make the ridiculous leap that just because you may videotape the signals, you automatically have the signals. That's absurd. Whether or not you can take the tapes and grab the signals in 6 minutes at halftime remains to be seen, but to me it's hard to believe. The coaches have other more important things to worry about.

Also, you can just as easily videotape the same signals from an enclosed area which is completely within the rules. Why BB didn't do that, I don't know, that's probably his biggest error here.

Belichick's interpretation of the rule might have been wrong, but his claim that he never used the tapes during a game is very believable.

Regarding the Panthers or any other game. How do you know the taping wasn't for archival purposes and if the signals were stolen, that they weren't stolen with binoculars and a legal pad?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It's good to think through "what it is actually for."

It's of no relevance to Pats-haters.

Fact: the rules say you can do x and y, but not z.
Fact: the Pats did z.

Fact: The Pats/league say no competitive advantage was gained.
Fact: The Pats are no idiots. Even the scenarios here say the taping was to gain an advantage.

I don't think we can dispute this - all we can dispute is:

We have scant knowledge as to other teams' practices. What we have suggests the "advantage" the Pats could just as easily be a matter of "keeping up" as "getting ahead." (in other words, everybody did "z". We got caught.)

Fact: The Pats' performance this year all but puts to rest the idea that "the only reason they win is because they cheat."

But all of this is in the realm of rational argumentation. Fans are not rational (fan is short for fanatic, remember?)

So like I said, I think it's good we have this discussion. I for one accept that the Pats could have used the tape for a number of reasons. I also accept that tape can't go out and throw a block or tackle a guy or throw a pass. It's also very unlikely that it was ever used in-game.

I believe the importance of the taping is exaggerated because people hate how much we won. I believe that the general public has learned as much as it is going to learn, just enough to support their opinion on the Pats (they cheat and their coach doesn't dress well.)

Lastly, everybody who lost to the Pats wants the free pass, regardless of the fact that they can concurrently agree they didn't get beat by a tape "in-game," and they hadn't played the pats for years prior. Or maybe these mugs think the Pats were using the tape in-game... after all, you'll notice it's not coaches filing lawsuits, it's "all world" safeties.

Just realize we get to have whatever arguments we make here a hundred times a week from now on, when it's football season. Oh and by the way... you won't get much past the first sentence or two.

People believe what makes them feel better.

PFnV

 

[PatsFanJess]

It's good to think through "what it is actually for."

It's of no relevance to Pats-haters.

Fact: the rules say you can do x and y, but not z.
Fact: the Pats did z.

Fact: The Pats/league say no competitive advantage was gained.
Fact: The Pats are no idiots. Even the scenarios here say the taping was to gain an advantage.

I don't think we can dispute this - all we can dispute is:

We have scant knowledge as to other teams' practices. What we have suggests the "advantage" the Pats could just as easily be a matter of "keeping up" as "getting ahead." (in other words, everybody did "z". We got caught.)

Fact: The Pats' performance this year all but puts to rest the idea that "the only reason they win is because they cheat."

But all of this is in the realm of rational argumentation. Fans are not rational (fan is short for fanatic, remember?)

So like I said, I think it's good we have this discussion. I for one accept that the Pats could have used the tape for a number of reasons. I also accept that tape can't go out and throw a block or tackle a guy or throw a pass. It's also very unlikely that it was ever used in-game.

I believe the importance of the taping is exaggerated because people hate how much we won. I believe that the general public has learned as much as it is going to learn, just enough to support their opinion on the Pats (they cheat and their coach doesn't dress well.)

Lastly, everybody who lost to the Pats wants the free pass, regardless of the fact that they can concurrently agree they didn't get beat by a tape "in-game," and they hadn't played the pats for years prior. Or maybe these mugs think the Pats were using the tape in-game... after all, you'll notice it's not coaches filing lawsuits, it's "all world" safeties.

Just realize we get to have whatever arguments we make here a hundred times a week from now on, when it's football season. Oh and by the way... you won't get much past the first sentence or two.

People believe what makes them feel better.

PFnV

This is absolutely right.

 

[BPF]

If we put a camera on 50 yard line 25 rows up and taped this stuff. It's ok. But, since we did it from the sideline. It's being treated like Watergate.

* In the league's Constitution & Bylaws, it reads: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Just as it is seemingly ok to videotape defensive and offensive signals in a game with two other participants. This is a poorly written rule and leaves the door open for too much interpretation, especially the "during the playing of a game" wording. So it's ok if it aids during the week of practice and studying of your opponent??

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

If an opposing team knew they were being videotaped and were paranoid then just go to the wrist band and call plays based on the wristband.

The more I think of this the more absurb that elected public officals are getting involved.

 

[cornhuskers_2002]

If we put a camera on 50 yard line 25 rows up and taped this stuff. It's ok. But, since we did it from the sideline. It's being treated like Watergate.

No, that would be illegal.

 

[BPF]

No, that would be illegal.

That depends on how you real the rule. Review it closely.