Linebackers can be found in the later rounds.

[MrBigglesWorth]

ding ding ding we have a winner...

chu ching chu ching........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Very true... but I think the Pats could find linebackers who are 250.... look at David Harris.

The defense goes as the linebackers go. They need to be able to put pressur eon the QB with a 4man rush.

250 big ones is pretty big.

 

[mgteich]

I would rather have 30 year old experienced veteran linebackers brought in every year than to be forced to use 6th round draft choice and UDFA's in games to help develop them.

 

[captain stone]

1) Why are Kaczur and O'Callaghan listed there? They seem like average types, if that. We got as much from Gorin and Ashworth as we have from Kaczur and O'Callaghan.

2) We've drafted a lot of LBs over the years. And cut a lot of them too.

3) That being said, last year's draft was annoying because the Patriots showed complete disregard for the value of their picks, and meanwhile, we could have used a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw.

1) I really hope that we've received more from Kaczur/O'C than from Ashworth/Gorin. After all, we spent 3rd/5th-round draft picks on the former, and nothing on the latter.

2) Kinda tells me that we've drafted the wrong LBs.

3) I couldn't agree more.

 

[ATippett56]

Lance Briggs was a third rounder.
Vrabel a third rounder
AD a sixth rounder
Demeco Ryans in the early second
Zach Thomas a 5th rounder
David Harris- 2nd round
Karlos Dansby- 2nd round.

Bart Scott undrafted free agent 2002
James Harrison undrafted free agent 2002
Stephen Cooper undrafted free agent 2003

 

[ATippett56]

I would rather have 30 year old experienced veteran linebackers brought in every year than to be forced to use 6th round draft choice and UDFA's in games to help develop them.

How did Monty Beisel and Chad Brown work out for the New England Patriots in 2005?

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"They're picking on me again!"

 

[DaBruinz]

We need speed and become an attacking defense

That statement contradicts the defensive philosophy of Bill Belichick.
You will never see BB fielding a team with small fast linebackers, or playing and attacking style of defense.
You either need to accept that you will not get what you want or start calling for BBs firing.

Andy -
How can you say that the Pats don't have an Attacking style defense? The Pats DO have an attacking style defense, but they LIMIT how many attackers they use to put pressure on the opposing team.

Also, I believe that Tedy falls into the category of small (height) and fast LB. Now, he's not small, weight wise. And Tedy isn't as fast as Vilma or Demarcus Ware, but Tedy was very fast prior to his stroke. He also read plays well and didn't over-run them.

I think that the Pats will continue to try and add young talent that fits their mold. What I hope they do, though, is decide that they can go with a earlier round pick and show some patience with that pick. Allow them to develop with the likes of Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and Don Davis helping them.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why are Kaczur and O'Callaghan listed there? They seem like average types, if that. We got as much from Gorin and Ashworth as we have from Kaczur and O'Callaghan.

We've drafted a lot of LBs over the years. And cut a lot of them too.

That being said, last year's draft was annoying because the Patriots showed complete disregard for the value of their picks, and meanwhile, we could have used a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw.

I think you saying that the Pats showed complete disregard for the value of their picks is laughable. Particularly when you use Bradshaw as your example. A player who wouldn't have made the Pats roster and would have been cut and taken by someone else. The Pats had Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk entrenched as their top 3 RBs. They also had Heath Evans as their FB/RB. Where would they have played Bradshaw? Do you really think he'd have beat out Morris or Faulk?

Rogers was cut in an attempt to slide him onto the practice squad. Unfortunately, the Cowboys wanted the home town boy (Rogers played at SMU).

As for Kaczur and O'Callaghan, the Pats have gotten more out of them than they did from Ashworth and Gorin. And before you start saying that the Pats won two SBs with Ashworth and Gorin, remember that those teams had a ton of other talent as well and that you'd be hard pressed to say that Kaczur LOST the SB for the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bart Scott undrafted free agent 2002
James Harrison undrafted free agent 2002
Stephen Cooper undrafted free agent 2003

I like Bart Scott... Wanted the Pats to bring him in when he was going to be a FA..

Harrison could be a nice addition for the Pats if he was ever allowed to walk. Though Harrison isn't the size the Pats look for in their OLBs. Harrison is the size of their ILBs.

I don't think Cooper has been all that great for the Chargers. He got the position by default (Steve Foley going insane and Donnie Edwards being released).

 

[mgteich]

Yes, your point? I was the one who indicated that when there is a severe need that we cannot depend on 6th and 7th rounders. We cannot wait until midseason and find that we have no ILB's as we did in 2005. We need to use the resources we have now. We need to plan to trade for a LB, use our #7, pick up a high-profile LB, or pick up a couple of LB's capable of starting (expect one to work out), or a combination of the above.

The same is true for corner, expect for corners, we are looking to 2nd and 3rd round draft choices to pick up 2 potential starters, rather than the #7.

How did Monty Beisel and Chad Brown work out for the New England Patriots in 2005?

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"They're picking on me again!"

 

[DaBruinz]

How did Monty Beisel and Chad Brown work out for the New England Patriots in 2005?

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

"They're picking on me again!"

To be fair, the Pats didn't expect Ted Johnson to retire as abruptly as he did. Beisel was brought in to learn behind Johnson and Bruschi. Brown was brought in to play both ILB and OLB, but as a reserve. Both got thrust into the starting roles that neither was prepared for.

That is an extreme situation, but it could be one the Pats are in again if both Bruschi and Seau retire, unless Lua shows to be more like Tatupu than like Alexander.

As for Woods and Alexander. I wasn't the least bit surprised to see Woods NOT get playing time after Colvin went down. Why? Because if you go back to 2005, even though the Pats had moved Vrabel inside and were playing with just Colvin and McGinest on the edges, TBC didn't get playing time.

I think this might be the only "chink" in the Belichick armor. I think that he needs to give the kids a few regular plays a game to help them develop their confidence. Especially when everyone says how different practice is from the real thing.

 

[ATippett56]

Yes, your point? I was the one who indicated that when there is a severe need that we cannot depend on 6th and 7th rounders. We cannot wait until midseason and find that we have no ILB's as we did in 2005. We need to use the resources we have now. We need to plan to trade for a LB, use our #7, pick up a high-profile LB, or pick up a couple of LB's capable of starting (expect one to work out), or a combination of the above.

The same is true for corner, expect for corners, we are looking to 2nd and 3rd round draft choices to pick up 2 potential starters, rather than the #7.

My point is to draft linebackers regardless of the round. Heck, some teams have found undrafted free agents who currently start at linebacker for their respective teams. Hopefully Vernon Gholston will fall to the New England Patriots at #7 in the 2008 NFL Draft.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

My point is to draft linebackers regardless of the round. Heck, some teams have found undrafted free agents who currently start at linebacker for their respective teams. Hopefully Vernon Gholston will fall to the New England Patriots at #7 in the 2008 NFL Draft.

But can he be a starter for the team from day 1?

I honestly dont know. Depends how intelligent he is i guess.

 

[Jimke]

Andy -
How can you say that the Pats don't have an Attacking style defense? The Pats DO have an attacking style defense, but they LIMIT how many attackers they use to put pressure on the opposing team.

Also, I believe that Tedy falls into the category of small (height) and fast LB. Now, he's not small, weight wise. And Tedy isn't as fast as Vilma or Demarcus Ware, but Tedy was very fast prior to his stroke. He also read plays well and didn't over-run them.

I think that the Pats will continue to try and add young talent that fits their mold. What I hope they do, though, is decide that they can go with a earlier round pick and show some patience with that pick. Allow them to develop with the likes of Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and Don Davis helping them.

I agree entirely with your third paragraph. For some reason the Pats have not
been willing and able to develop a young linebacker during the Belichick era.
It is expecting too much for a young linebacker to be an instant starter

 

[mgteich]

It seems that if we want to draft a linebacker who will eventually start, we would need a 1st or 2nd and wait a couple of years. It seems better to use the choices for different positions and get the linebackers from free agency.

I agree entirely with your third paragraph. For some reason the Pats have not
been willing and able to develop a young linebacker during the Belichick era.
It is expecting too much for a young linebacker to be an instant starter

 

[sebman2112]

Am I the only person who seems to realize you could pick up someone like Dansby in free agency (if he doesn get tagged), and he might come at around the same price as Gholston?

Remember, we're talking about the 7th overall pick, and with that pick comes a pretty hefty contract. In my opinion the Patriots only select someone in the top ten if they absolutely cannot find a trading partner. It also seems to make a lot more sense to spend that kind of money on a player who's already proven they can perform in the NFL.

Edit: I realize Dansby just got tagged, so take him off the board. However, the point (I'd rather pay a proven NFL performer that kind of dough) is still somewhat accurate.

 

[dryheat44]

Of course, lost in all this discussion, is that playing in Bill Belichick's defense is every intelligent linebacker's wet dream. I think Belichick has been counting on the fact that New England will be a preferred destination for FA linebackers as long as the're being paid reasonably....see Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Bruschi, Phifer....hopefully we can add Z Thomas to this list soon.

 

[captain stone]

Of course, lost in all this discussion, is that playing in Bill Belichick's defense is every intelligent linebacker's wet dream. I think Belichick has been counting on the fact that New England will be a preferred destination for FA linebackers as long as the're being paid reasonably....see Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Bruschi, Phifer....hopefully we can add Z Thomas to this list soon.

Zack Thomas? IDK; he didn't exactly receive a ringing endorsement from TJ.

I would consider Thomas only if either Seau or Bruschi retire.

 

[dryheat44]

Zack Thomas? IDK; he didn't exactly receive a ringing endorsement from TJ.

I would consider Thomas only if either Seau or Bruschi retire.

From whom? Ted Johnson? TJ Whosyourmama? Tom Jackson? Belichick has praised Thomas several times since he's been here. Honestly, he's the same guy as Bruschi. Unless he's just unable to learn the 3-4 ILB position the way Belichick wants it played, he'll be here. Even if Bruschi and Seau are still here, having another veteran to keep them (and Adalius) fresh and insure against long-term injury will be well worthwhile.

Plus, he plays special teams. Really, it just makes too much sense not to happen....unless Zach just can't stomach pulling on the jersey of a rival team, which I doubt.

Edit....You must mean you don't know if Thomas would want to play for Belichick based on Ted Johnson's contention he was forced to play with concussions. Sorry I misunderstood at first. There's a difference, though, between Johnson, who says he's suffered dozens of concussions in his football career, and Thomas, who suffered his (as far as I know) first last year, and was IRed against his wishes.

 

[captain stone]

Actually, my concern is that if both Seau and Bruschi return (which I hope they do), then adding ZT might take a spot away from a young ILB. Now, if the NEP rid themselves of Izzo and Alexander, then there could be room for ZT, Lua and/or our ILB of the Future. If that's the Plan, then I can be down with that.