The Patriots front 3 in the past 3 playoff seasons - Below average efforts

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You can say that Seymour was playing hurt or whatever but after checking on the past 3 seasons playoffs games it shows that our defensive line has been dominated by the opponents offensive line for most of the total of 7 playoff games from 2005 to 2007 or simply our front 3 has not been focused or played with more emotion during the 2 or 3 games per playoff year which definately killed our defense,put more pressure on the secondary and helped the result of early exits or a loss somewhere in the playoff games over the past 3 campaigns.

Totals from the 2005-2006-2007 seasons with players Vince Wilfork,Ty Warren and Richard Seymour.......

These are totals from all 3 starters...
4 Sacks
102 Tackles
0 Interceptions
0 Forced Fumbles

Thats approximately 1.3 sacks per player for all 7 playoff games and only an average of approximately 4.4 tackles per game per front 3

Those kind of stats from your most important part of the defense are not the type of stats in playoffs that produces championships too often,Very little pressure on the opposing QBs in 7 games.

Sure these guys did fine against the run for most of the time but NO major pressure,sacks or forced throws for the opposing QB which is apparent with those numbers I have above.

Without going back to the 2001,2003,2004 seasons our front 3 I am sure were much more dominating.

Somewhere the team needs to address intensity in the playoffs for these front 3 - We know they have the talent but have been dissapearing like Houdini since the 2005 season

 

[nepatz11]

Re: The Patriots front 3 in the past 3 playoff seasons - Horrible efforts

Well I think you have to consider the role of a d-lineman in a 3-4 defense when analyzing those stats, however you are right they are dispappointing. I think Seymour in particular deserves scutiny. How does a 6'6" 320 lb beast of a man let a quarterback who looks like my paper boy escape his grasp on a third and 11 play in the final two minutes of the superbowl. I would have dug my hand into his flesh if I had to I would not have let go.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: The Patriots front 3 in the past 3 playoff seasons - Horrible efforts

Well I think you have to consider the role of a d-lineman in a 3-4 defense when analyzing those stats, however you are right they are dispappointing. I think Seymour in particular deserves scutiny. How does a 6'6" 320 lb beast of a man let a quarterback who looks like my paper boy escape his grasp on a third and 11 play in the final two minutes of the superbowl. I would have dug my hand into his flesh if I had to I would not have let go.

Homers on here say it was the injury that hurt Seymour over the past few seasons

In reality Seymour got his big contract and has not been the same,Injury is just a way of excusing things a bit
,If he was too injured BB would probably have had him sit because Jarvis Green is a better player in the past 3 years at the position IMO.

 

[unoriginal]

How far out of line is that with their season averages? That's the real question.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How far out of line is that with their season averages? That's the real question.

Thats true,Thats why I smirk when the media says that the Patriots front 3 may be the best in the NFL...

Are you Fu(king kidding me?

 

[mcgraw_wv]

It was obvious we missed Colvins presense on pressure on the QB. He needs to get and stay healthy.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

It was obvious we missed Colvins presense on pressure on the QB. He needs to get and stay healthy.

UMMMM I believe he is a free agent this year - No guarantee he is here in 2008

 

[Ring 6]

You can say that Seymour was playing hurt or whatever but after checking on the past 3 seasons playoffs games it shows that our defensive line has been dominated by the opponents offensive line for most of the total of 7 playoff games from 2005 to 2007 or simply our front 3 has not been focused or played with more emotion during the 2 or 3 games per playoff year which definately killed our defense,put more pressure on the secondary and helped the result of early exits or a loss somewhere in the playoff games over the past 3 campaigns.

Totals from the 2005-2006-2007 seasons with players Vince Wilfork,Ty Warren and Richard Seymour.......

These are totals from all 3 starters...
4 Sacks
102 Tackles
0 Interceptions
0 Forced Fumbles

Thats approximately 1.3 sacks per player for all 7 playoff games and only an average of approximately 4.4 tackles per game per front 3

Those kind of stats from your most important part of the defense are not the type of stats in playoffs that produces championships too often,Very little pressure on the opposing QBs in 7 games.

Sure these guys did fine against the run for most of the time but NO major pressure,sacks or forced throws for the opposing QB which is apparent with those numbers I have above.

Without going back to the 2001,2003,2004 seasons our front 3 I am sure were much more dominating.

Somewhere the team needs to address intensity in the playoffs for these front 3 - We know they have the talent but have been dissapearing like Houdini since the 2005 season

I dont think in our defensive scheme sacks by the down 3 is a good measurement. That is not their primary function. They are there to stop the run.
I think the weakness is in our defense when ahead, or in 2 minute drills.
In the last 3 playoff losses:
1) Denver won the game in the last 2 minutes of the first half.
2) Indy came back from a huge deficit by throwing a lot against a D trying to take away the pass.
3) The Giants drove over 80 yards in a 2 minute drill. We could not stop a pass only offense at the most critical time.

Where the blame lies is the question. I saw some but not enough pass rush. I saw some but not enough tight coverage from the corners. I was LBs and Safeties in the area but not covering tightly.
The difference to me between 01,03,04 (esp 03-04) and since is that defensively when we needed a stop, we got it then, but lately do not. The close games we played this season had these trends in them, but we overcame them. Sunday and the last 2 other playoff defeats we did not.

I thought it was very appropriate the way this season went that the Championship came down to our defense stopping the Giants from going most of the length of the field in the final 2+ minutes. This was the question mark that was left from 18-0. As it turned out we werent up to that challenge.

 

[mgteich]

Colvin is signed through the 2008 season.

UMMMM I believe he is a free agent this year - No guarantee he is here in 2008

 

[mcgraw_wv]

I thought we had one more year with Colvin. He isn't worth a big pay day if so, he's missed 2 whole years out of his contract, and his first year back from his first injury wasn't that strong.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I dont think in our defensive scheme sacks by the down 3 is a good measurement. That is not their primary function. They are there to stop the run.
I think the weakness is in our defense when ahead, or in 2 minute drills.
In the last 3 playoff losses:
1) Denver won the game in the last 2 minutes of the first half.
2) Indy came back from a huge deficit by throwing a lot against a D trying to take away the pass.
3) The Giants drove over 80 yards in a 2 minute drill. We could not stop a pass only offense at the most critical time.

Where the blame lies is the question. I saw some but not enough pass rush. I saw some but not enough tight coverage from the corners. I was LBs and Safeties in the area but not covering tightly.
The difference to me between 01,03,04 (esp 03-04) and since is that defensively when we needed a stop, we got it then, but lately do not. The close games we played this season had these trends in them, but we overcame them. Sunday and the last 2 other playoff defeats we did not.

I thought it was very appropriate the way this season went that the Championship came down to our defense stopping the Giants from going most of the length of the field in the final 2+ minutes. This was the question mark that was left from 18-0. As it turned out we werent up to that challenge.

Well the Giants front line stopped the run AND put pressure
The Colts defense in 2006 stopped/slowed the run AND rushed Brady a lot
The Broncos defense in 2005 also did similar and resulted the smae

If you are a dominating line like our front 3 are supposed to and as good as some think you need to do BOTH stopping the run and pressuring the passer and especially in the crucial games,These 3 have not been able to do it consistently thus we are 0-3 in 3 years in a row - no denying that

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Don't recall who it was on this board but they came up with the best nickname for Seymour = Big Siesta!! :rocker:
Way to come up big on the last drive there BigSie!
#93 is waaaaay overrated!!!!

 

[borg]

The defensive philosophy this year was consistent with the past SB runs. Bend but don't break....avoid the big play....make the opposition string together 10 plays to score. Contrast this style with the attacking Defenses the Pats saw vs the NYG and Balt. My peave vs the GMen was how the DBacks never pressed their receivers. The prime example is the cushion Assante gave Tyre on his TD catch. The ball was on the 5 yet Assante was 5 yards off his guy. That was a TD long before the pass was thrown. The Pats may want to consider adding a CB that can play more physical on the LOS just as opponents have lined up in Moss' face.

 

[Harry Yelreh]

I keep hearing about how the Giants totally outplayed NE or kicked NE's collective you-know-what, but the margin between the two was really extremely thin. One way a person could look at this game would be to say that, at the end, NE had a defensive back who dropped a ball that hit him in the hands while the Giants had a receiver that made a leaping grab to catch a ball up against his helmet. It's ridiculous, but that's football for you.

Otherwise, I thought the defensive front played very well, just literally let it slip through their fingers on one play - Manning's inexplicable escape. Stuffed the run and put decent pressure on him for much of the game. How the heck NE didn't recover Bradshaw's fumble at the 30, I'll never know. Then there was the forced fumble on Manning that bounced the Giants' way. Every break seemed to go like that.

The defensive front stuffed Jacksonville's vaunted run game, kept San Diego out of the endzone, did very well against the Giants' run game, and in general held opposing offenses out of the endzone for a stretch of 9 straight quarters in the playoffs. That's all really amazing when a person thinks about it.

But it still comes down to making plays in the clutch, and to that end, unfortunately, NE came up short, obviously. But as I said before: if we had known before the game that the Giants would score only 17 points, nearly all of us would have predicted a NE victory and maybe even a blowout.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

The defensive philosophy this year was consistent with the past SB runs. Bend but don't break....avoid the big play....make the opposition string together 10 plays to score. Contrast this style with the attacking Defenses the Pats saw vs the NYG and Balt. My peave vs the GMen was how the DBacks never pressed their receivers. The prime example is the cushion Assante gave Tyre on his TD catch. The ball was on the 5 yet Assante was 5 yards off his guy. That was a TD long before the pass was thrown. The Pats may want to consider adding a CB that can play more physical on the LOS just as opponents have lined up in Moss' face.

Patriots D being physical is a myth. I don't care what anyone says to defend it. Yes, they've done an excellent job of stopping the run, but putting pressure CONSISTENTLY is no where.

When was the last time you saw Pats DL DOMINATE the LOS. Only reason we finished #2 in sacks is b/c other teams were always behind and pass first philosopy played into the D hands.

 

[unoriginal]

When was the last time you saw Pats DL DOMINATE the LOS. Only reason we finished #2 in sacks is b/c other teams were always behind and pass first philosopy played into the D hands.

Probably the last time I saw that was when the Pats were running a one-gap 4-3.

The two-gap 3-4 isn't made to dominate the LOS, its made to control gaps and let the backers chase down the offensive backs.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

This will definitely be an area of review and addressing by the coaching staff. When they look at the film and see how much time they allowed Manning and how little time Brady had it will hopefully get an upgrade. I don't think Colvin alone is the answer as his health is a question mark. I have faith in BB's ability to make the necessary changes here. With regards to corner, I would agree that they need to get more physical in that area and I don't think Hobbs is a long term answer there.

 

[CrazyDave]

Patriots D being physical is a myth. I don't care what anyone says to defend it. Yes, they've done an excellent job of stopping the run, but putting pressure CONSISTENTLY is no where.

When was the last time you saw Pats DL DOMINATE the LOS. Only reason we finished #2 in sacks is b/c other teams were always behind and pass first philosopy played into the D hands.

You know, when I heard that we were #2 in sacks I was amazed.
I did'nt think we did a very good job with pass rush at all this year.
Strange. We always seemed a step too late.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

it is extremely absurd to blame the d-linemen the strength of the defense.

we need speed at linebacker. two added linebackers(playmakers) could make this the best defense.

as i recall they had a top defense this season?

 

[unoriginal]

Totals from the 2005-2006-2007 seasons with players Vince Wilfork,Ty Warren and Richard Seymour.......

These are totals from all 3 starters...
4 Sacks
102 Tackles
0 Interceptions
0 Forced Fumbles

Thats approximately 1.3 sacks per player for all 7 playoff games and only an average of approximately 4.4 tackles per game per front 3

I looked at the 2003 and 2004 post-seasons. For starters in 2004 I had Wilfork/Traylor combined since they platooned, Warren, and Green/Seymour, as they started over each other due to injuries. For starters in 2003 I had Hamilton, Seymour, and Washington. Here are the stats for those 6 games:

Tackles: 53
Sacks: 2

As terrible as our defensive line was in 2005-07, they were only half as good in 2003-04. You'd have to go back to 2002 to find a line that was really good and... oh, wait. Well, at least we had a good defensive line back in 2001, didn't we?