Offensive Line Play for Giants, Week 17

[unoriginal]

I may as well post the link to the Jags and Chargers thread, as some people may not find it in the rush of the general board:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=76486

Other "football" threads of mine can be found by searching for threads started by unoriginal.

 

[BradyManny]

Pats have only used their TEs for run blocking this year. If they do pass block, its usually because its a play action pass.

For run blocking they like to use Brady on that "wham" trap block, along with the usual zone and power blocking.

Kaczur coming in for O'Callaghan I see as being a big upgrade. He handled the Jags and Chargers ends well, and they are physically similar to Strahan. Of course, Strahan is a HoF level player, so don't expect pancakes. I would expect half as many pressures as O'Callaghan surrendered.

Alright, good stuff as usual.

I'm hoping we see the Pats run the ball as effectively against the Giants as they have in the past few weeks - and I guess I'm hoping that adding K. Brady and Kazcur and Neal can help achieve that. Personally, I thought the run blocking and rushing attack looked pretty good against the NYG even if it didn't show up on the stat sheet, Maroney ran like a monster that game, and had two very clutch runs. If I remember, there were just a few OL breakdowns turning into stuffs that really brought his production and YPC down.

 

[fgssand]

While I agree it helps the Pats to have the recent experience of playing these guys, I hope what some of my analysis here demonstrates is that the Giants have some really good players.

We'll see if Steve Spagnuolo is up to the task of working them into favorable matchups. Probably the most exciting matchup of the game, I think.

No question, this match up is crucial for both teams, should any team dominate and win this match up, it will go a long way towards determining the outcome.

I have a lot of respect for the Giant rush & pressure and Tuck worries more that Osi & Strahan.

While your at it - come over to the other side of the ball, will Vrabel, Green, Seymour & Co. be able to apply the pressure we need to hurry Manning up and limit his effectiveness. Do you see safety blitzes getting through??Manning has been very good finding his hot reads and getting the ball out during this playoff run. Do you think this match up favors us - it should and we sure do need to dominate up front? Will we be able to slow the run enough to force them into 3rd & longs and if we do - can we get to Manning??

 

[BradyManny]

This thread deserves a bump.

 

[Robdude]

The best part of thread like this is that when I am done reading everything I have learned a lot and it all makes so much sense. I wonder why I did not see it before. It reallt does allow me to see the game in a different light.

Thanks

 

[Dragda]

Pats have only used their TEs for run blocking this year. If they do pass block, its usually because its a play action pass.

For run blocking they like to use Brady on that "wham" trap block, along with the usual zone and power blocking.

Kaczur coming in for O'Callaghan I see as being a big upgrade. He handled the Jags and Chargers ends well, and they are physically similar to Strahan. Of course, Strahan is a HoF level player, so don't expect pancakes. I would expect half as many pressures as O'Callaghan surrendered.

Interesting that I never noticed that the TEs aren't pass blocking. We have a mere adequate yet inconsistent OL when it comes to run blocking. I think they'll get better, though.

 

[unoriginal]

Interesting that I never noticed that the TEs aren't pass blocking. We have a mere adequate yet inconsistent OL when it comes to run blocking. I think they'll get better, though.

Research by Football Outsiders indicates the Pats actually have one of the (if not the) best run blocking lines in the league:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

The high "Stuffed" rank is pretty significant given that we often run without a fullback to help erase one OL mistake each play. And, of course, the fact that we are 1st in Adjusted Line Yards but 26th in 10+ Yards indicates that the offensive line is doing the majority of the work in the running game, not Maroney, as talented as he is.

Other things to note is that we tend to do better running inside the line, and we do it more often, with 60% of our runs going between the guards. I take this is because we run out of a 5-man offensive line more often than other teams.

Sadly, I didn't evaluate run blocking this year because I had to save time, and I thought pass blocking would be more significant to the Pats' success.

 

[Ring 6]

I am curious what your definiton of 'pressure' is.
I can think of many different definitions, ranging from hand on the QB or in his face to was within a few yards of the QB when he threw.

You have pressure on more than half the pass attempts, and that isnt what I saw. (Depending on the definition)

I would define pressure as disruptive. If Brady slides a step or 2 and throws the pass, I wouldnt call that pressure. If he steps up into a clean pocket, I wouldnt call that pressure. If he gets rid of the ball quickly, because he has read his progressions, and chosen a receiver, but it looks like the rush may have gotten to him if he held the ball longer, I wouldn't call that pressure.

If pressure were deifined as:
Grasped by defender
Scrambled out of pocket
Thrown away
Passing motion impeded

Would that drastically chage the numbers you posted?

 

[Ring 6]

Research by Football Outsiders indicates the Pats actually have one of the (if not the) best run blocking lines in the league:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

The high "Stuffed" rank is pretty significant given that we often run without a fullback to help erase one OL mistake each play. And, of course, the fact that we are 1st in Adjusted Line Yards but 26th in 10+ Yards indicates that the offensive line is doing the majority of the work in the running game, not Maroney, as talented as he is.

Other things to note is that we tend to do better running inside the line, and we do it more often, with 60% of our runs going between the guards. I take this is because we run out of a 5-man offensive line more often than other teams.

Sadly, I didn't evaluate run blocking this year because I had to save time, and I thought pass blocking would be more significant to the Pats' success.

I think the 60% number is INTENDED HOLE. And with the philosophy of our running game that % doesnt surprise me. If our strategy is cut back and running to daylight, you are typical going to start out most of your running plays between the Gs, but the intent of the play call is not necessarily to run there.

 

[psychoPat]

Kicking myself that i'm only now getting to
this remarkable thread.

Better late than never, though.

 

[unoriginal]

I am curious what your definition of 'pressure' is.
I can think of many different definitions...

Would that drastically change the numbers you posted?

Yep. Pressure is a subjective measurement, as is Knockdown, as whether a play qualifies as a Knockdown is often reliant on whether they show Brady crawling off the turf after the play or decide to cut to a crowd reaction shot or unrelated replay. I fully admit this isn't perfect.

I tend to ascribe something as "Pressure" if it causes Brady to move significantly in the pocket or hurry/misplace a throw. That can include a hand in the face or near his throwing arm, but doesn't tend to include defensive tackles jumping around five yards away with their hands in the air as if they just didn't care. A couple games back, in fact, I specifically mentioned an outcome of a play against Nick Kaczur being a tipped pass, not a pressure, on that kind of subjective evaluation. I noted it as such because the defender was not inside the arc of Brady's arm motion.

Matt Light is particularly hard to grade consistently because, as you and most are no doubt aware, Brady and Light tend to act as one mind in their "bait-and-switch" method of steering ends around the back end of the pocket as Brady steps up. I tend to count it as a pressure if Brady steps up and either (a) has to turn his shoulders to reduce his profile or (b) his stepping up is not part of or lead immediately to a throwing motion. I can't see into his mind so I have to assume Brady stepped up in those cases because he felt pressure, even if it wasn't particularly severe or disruptive. Another thing I've noticed is that Brady tends to favor the blind-side of the pocket, and will drift left in his drop back. He does this presumably because he feels Light is a better pass blocker than Kaczur, but it has the added effect of skewing those pressure numbers against Light, and I can understand how another casual observer wouldn't consider Light at fault for some of these pressures.

That's why I provide the play list, so other people like you can evaluate my evaluations, if you wish. It's also why I provide picture breakdowns of some plays with my thoughts on the protection. I can tell you making this thread would have been a lot easier and faster if I just did the stat list of each lineman.

BTW, while I've got your attention, would you replace the link to the third image in my first post with the following one:

Imageshack seems to have killed the original one.

 

[Dragda]

Kicking myself that i'm only now getting to
this remarkable thread.

Better late than never, though.

Yeah, with all the media links in other threads, this is a welcome change. Kudos to unoriginal, who is actually pretty original when it comes to this kind of great analysis.

 

[State]

I look forward to Stephen Neal's presence making a difference. He's much more athletic on running plays than his replacement, Hochstein, that I think we'll see an improvement.

I'm not sold, however, on Nick Kaczur being much of an improvement over O'Callaghan.

My nightmare is Justin Tuck blowing past one of the interior guys and hitting
Tom Brady low in the legs, causing an injury--probably the only way the Giants can win.