Matt Ryan will dictate the Patriots draft

[BradyToMoss]

As it stands right now. There are two teams who need Matt Ryan in the top five (Atlanta and KC). For the Pats, I think it will be great if Atlanta rolls the dice and takes McFadden (great possibility), because this will increase the chances of Matt falling down to us at #7. Even though KC needs a QB, I can't see them passing on an Ellis or Long if available to take Ryan.

Baltimore, at #8, is hoping beyond anything else that Ryan falls to them at #8 and here's where BB can play that trump Ace of hearts card. We could call the Falcons back up (old friend, Dimitroff) and offer him the #7 for his (#35) and (#57). This puts us in that (Cason, Cromartie, Talib) window at #35 and it gives us yet another 3rd round pick to add to the 2 that we already have, giving us our own 2nd rounder and 3 - 3rd round picks to stockpile LB, OL and another corner.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

As it stands right now. There are two teams who need Matt Ryan in the top five (Atlanta and KC). For the Pats, I think it will be great if Atlanta rolls the dice and takes McFadden (great possibility), because this will increase the chances of Matt falling down to us at #7. Even though KC needs a QB, I can't see them passing on an Ellis or Long if available to take Ryan.

Baltimore, at #8, is hoping beyond anything else that Ryan falls to them at #8 and here's where BB can play that trump Ace of hearts card. We could call the Falcons back up (old friend, Dimitroff) and offer him the #7 for his (#35) and (#57). This puts us in that (Cason, Cromartie, Talib) window at #35 and it gives us yet another 3rd round pick to add to the 2 that we already have, giving us our own 2nd rounder and 3 - 3rd round picks to stockpile LB, OL and another corner.

I don't get it. Why would the Pats trade out of the first round entirely?

 

[BradyToMoss]

I don't get it. Why would the Pats trade out of the first round entirely?

My point is whether we deal with the Falcons or someone else lower in Round 1, is that by Matt Ryan falling to us, in my opinion, this can really work out great for the Patriots, simply because we're picking right in front of the Ravens who are QB starved.

You do make a good point, the NFL Draft point value chart does have the #7 pick equating to 1500pts, where as the Falcons (2nd and 3rd picks equate to a total of 860pts), this is where I could see BB asking for both these picks and a #1 or a #2 from the Falcons in 09.

 

[A.C Vegas]

are you totally forgetting that the Bears need a QB adn will probaly try to trade up as well. and what is mcfadden falls to us then dallas just might be pound on the door for him

 

[BradyToMoss]

are you totally forgetting that the Bears need a QB adn will probaly try to trade up as well. and what is mcfadden falls to us then dallas just might be pound on the door for him

I agree, like I said, it doesn't have to be the Falcons, the Bears would work also at #14 and we could also ask for their 4th round pick to go with it. Cromartie is climbing draft boards like no one's business and he might climb into the middle of round 1, so sure, this scenario works for me.

As far as McFadden falling to us, fat chance on that happening. The more likely scenario is Matt Ryan falling to us at #7 which is exactly what I hope happens. Believe it or not, if the Ravens know that we're fielding phone calls for that #7 pick, don't put it past them to call us and we simply swap picks 7 and 8 and we can rob them of a 4th round pick.

Cromartie for me is the pick, he's 6'2", world class speed with a vertical leap identitical to his cousin Antoinio. This is the guy I'm hoping the Pats are targeting. I watched him in the senior bowl and he was dominant.
I also like the fact that he's tall, right now the Pats have issues with tall wideouts because of our lack of height on the outside. We could match this kid up with all the tall wideout mismatches we seem to face year in and year out. Here's a good scouting report on him :

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_draft/Dominique-Rodgers-Cromarti.htm

 

[Watson's IQ]

The problem with this logic for me is that there is a decently solid group of QBs in this draft, none of whom are sure-fire can't miss guys. I agree with your assertion that Matt Ryan is the best of the bunch, but how much better is he than Brian Brohm or Andre Woodson (who I know had a bad Senior Bowl)? Furthermore, none of these guys are Carson Palmer-level talents for example, so their hardly a sure thing. Why would a team trade up to get Ryan if they don't have him ranked much higher than Brohm to begin with?

 

[BradyToMoss]

The problem with this logic for me is that there is a decently solid group of QBs in this draft, none of whom are sure-fire can't miss guys. I agree with your assertion that Matt Ryan is the best of the bunch, but how much better is he than Brian Brohm or Andre Woodson (who I know had a bad Senior Bowl)? Furthermore, none of these guys are Carson Palmer-level talents for example, so their hardly a sure thing. Why would a team trade up to get Ryan if they don't have him ranked much higher than Brohm to begin with?

Check any draft board and you'll see that Matt Ryan will be the 1st QB off the board. Mike Mayok was raving about Ryan during Senior bowl week and Mayok has him as his #1 ranked QB, which most if not all draft boards do. Of that bunch of QB's you mention, Ryan is the most NFL ready right now. Ryan made prime rib out of ground chuck with those 1AA wideouts he was throwing to all season. If he had just 1 legit wideout, he would have been Carson Palmer and would be the #1 pick. NFL scouts realize this and know that Ryan is a franchise QB. Believe me, if he falls to us at #7, keep your eye on the Pats draft table, the red phone lights will be lighting up the room.

 

[zarakotas5]

The QB distribution should be interesting this year. Ryan is considered the one distancing himself as the #1. Woodson is wilting. Brohm has questions. Brennan might be an UDFA.

I'm more impressed with Joe Flacco than Ryan. To me, the question is if teams are that enamored with Ryan. If he lasts past 5 or 6, teams may get a little punchy. Otherwise, the other QBs will either get drafted too early or be neglected.

 

[Jimke]

are you totally forgetting that the Bears need a QB adn will probaly try to trade up as well. and what is mcfadden falls to us then dallas just might be pound on the door for him

The Bears are too stupid to draft a quarterback in the first round. The Cowboys would give us both of their #1 draft picks for a chance to draft McFadden.

 

[ayjackson]

The Bears are too stupid to draft a quarterback in the first round. The Cowboys would give us both of their #1 draft picks for a chance to draft McFadden.

Dallas won't be interested in McFadden. They already have a top 10 RB and just need a scat back to share carries (Felix Jones and the end of the first or Chris Johnson at the end of the second).

Jerry Jones blew his wad on one player several years back (Joey Galloway) and swore off it. This is just rampant speculation on the part of the media (mostly Miami media right now) and Jerry Jones will do nothing to quash it. If they were truly interested in McFadden, they would be downplaying it.

But the truth is, JJ loves this sort of attention for his franchise and if the country wants to talk about the Cowboys making the big splash for MdFadden for three months, JJ won't do anything to stop it.

(I guess if the price were MBIII and their second rounder, they'd do it - that would require some falling on McFadden's part.)

 

[Watson's IQ]

Check any draft board and you'll see that Matt Ryan will be the 1st QB off the board. Mike Mayok was raving about Ryan during Senior bowl week and Mayok has him as his #1 ranked QB, which most if not all draft boards do. Of that bunch of QB's you mention, Ryan is the most NFL ready right now. Ryan made prime rib out of ground chuck with those 1AA wideouts he was throwing to all season. If he had just 1 legit wideout, he would have been Carson Palmer and would be the #1 pick. NFL scouts realize this and know that Ryan is a franchise QB. Believe me, if he falls to us at #7, keep your eye on the Pats draft table, the red phone lights will be lighting up the room.

You didn't even read what I said, did you? I agreed with you that Ryan is #1. I think he is the best of the bunch.

But is he:

A) SO much better than the next best guy (Brohm, IMO)
B) So much of a sure thing that teams will trade up to get him.

I'm not convinced on either count.

 

[pantherman]

I don't know why you'd trade out either.

 

[BradyToMoss]

You didn't even read what I said, did you? I agreed with you that Ryan is #1. I think he is the best of the bunch.

But is he:

A) SO much better than the next best guy (Brohm, IMO)
B) So much of a sure thing that teams will trade up to get him.

I'm not convinced on either count.

Yes, I did read what you said, I know you think he's barely topping the list of QB's. What I said, and what I am trying to point out is that yes, people will pay a premium, IMO, for MATT RYAN. He is a much better Pro prospect than Brohm and Woodson. And what I said in my response to your post is that had Matt had better wideouts to throw too, he would have separated himself so much to the point where people would project him #1 overall, unfortunately at BC, he didn't have the luxury of decent wideouts.

Long story short, yes, I think if Matt Ryan is sitting there at #7, team like the Bears, Ravens, Falcons, Vikings, Bucs, Panthers etc, might decide to pick up the phone to talk to the Pats. Even with Brohm and Woodson still on the board. Especially teams like the (Bears, Falcons, Vikings, Bucs and Panthers) who will want to jump up in front of the Ravens if Ryan is still there.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Yes, I did read what you said, I know you think he's barely topping the list of QB's. What I said, and what I am trying to point out is that yes, people will pay a premium, IMO, for MATT RYAN. He is a much better Pro prospect than Brohm and Woodson. And what I said in my response to your post is that had Matt had better wideouts to throw too, he would have separated himself so much to the point where people would project him #1 overall, unfortunately at BC, he didn't have the luxury of decent wideouts.

Long story short, yes, I think if Matt Ryan is sitting there at #7, team like the Bears, Ravens, Falcons, Vikings, Bucs, Panthers etc, might decide to pick up the phone to talk to the Pats. Even with Brohm and Woodson still on the board. Especially teams like the (Bears, Falcons, Vikings, Bucs and Panthers) who will want to jump up in front of the Ravens if Ryan is still there.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I think he's going to be a fine pro quarterback, and definitely be better (and better sooner) than the other guys we're discussing.

I'm not an NFL scout or GM, so I'm not going to feign to be an expert. I'm just going to say I would be surprised if teams were placing him at that much of a premium over the other guys, although I could obviously be wrong.

Even if Team X has Ryan rated higher than Brohm, if they still think Brohm will be there when they pick, they have to decide if he's a whole other draft pick they'd have to give up better. Given that, I almost think if we're agreeing there are a lot of teams looking for QBs this year, and a paucity of first round talent (if people are no longer seeing Woodson as a first rounder), than we're better off holding the lottery ticket for the second guy in line.

 

[jeffbiologist]

The more I think about it the more this trade makes sense.....If Ryan is there at 7 we trade for ATL #2 this year and #1 next year. That would leave us in perfect position to get the SC LB and it would give ATL a shot in the arm(which the team definately needs). They are the team who will rob Peter to pay Paul to outrun the Vick thing.....and we got a guy on the inside. Makes sense to me, because Ryan at pick 3 is not as good value as Dorsey. I know getting out of the first round doesnt sound great, and maybe we swap 2s or 3s from 08 to 09 to get a value guy because this years draft is deep.... but Miami may be another trade partner we may think about under the same scenario.

 

[BradyToMoss]

The more I think about it the more this trade makes sense.....If Ryan is there at 7 we trade for ATL #2 this year and #1 next year. That would leave us in perfect position to get the SC LB and it would give ATL a shot in the arm(which the team definately needs). They are the team who will rob Peter to pay Paul to outrun the Vick thing.....and we got a guy on the inside. Makes sense to me, because Ryan at pick 3 is not as good value as Dorsey. I know getting out of the first round doesnt sound great, and maybe we swap 2s or 3s from 08 to 09 to get a value guy because this years draft is deep.... but Miami may be another trade partner we may think about under the same scenario.

You know, I mentioned Atlanta simply because of their QB need and the connection with Dimitroff. I mean imagine the splash he would make in his first year if he were able to reel in (McFadden and Matt Ryan). He instantly in the matter of (4 picks * 10 minute max), in 40 minutes, makes the Atlanta Falcons into a legitimate franchise. And like you mentioned, we grab their #2 and/or #3 (which we could use as ammo to move up to grab one of those coveted corners or Keith Rivers, depending on when the CB-slide begins and who starts it) and we could grab their future 09 #1, something we love to do.

You talked about them taking Dorsey, I honestly think they have McFadden tabbed as their guy at #3.

 

[Watson's IQ]

The more I think about it the more this trade makes sense.....If Ryan is there at 7 we trade for ATL #2 this year and #1 next year. That would leave us in perfect position to get the SC LB and it would give ATL a shot in the arm(which the team definately needs). They are the team who will rob Peter to pay Paul to outrun the Vick thing.....and we got a guy on the inside. Makes sense to me, because Ryan at pick 3 is not as good value as Dorsey. I know getting out of the first round doesnt sound great, and maybe we swap 2s or 3s from 08 to 09 to get a value guy because this years draft is deep.... but Miami may be another trade partner we may think about under the same scenario.

I agree with this, and the more I look at it that scenario does make some sense. I'm not so sure about the "guy on the inside" thing. Yeah, he might be more likely to deal with the Pats because he knows them, but he's not going to be going out of his way to do any favors for them. I'd imagine he had special insight on how the Pats tend to fleece people on draft day.

That said, getting those two would give him instant credibility and reenergize that fanbase.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I'm convinced that Ryan will end up being the #1 pick in the draft. Wait until after the combine and the workouts and Ryan will be the #1 pick. The Fins will either pick him themsleves, or trade down with Atlanta, Baltimore, or any other QB in need team.

Ryan is head and shoulders above the other QBs, if you watched the Senior bowl, Ryan made himself alot of money by just not going.
Brennan looked horrible and so did Woodson, the only QB that actually imporved his stock was Henne from Michigan.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I'm convinced that Ryan will end up being the #1 pick in the draft. Wait until after the combine and the workouts and Ryan will be the #1 pick. The Fins will either pick him themsleves, or trade down with Atlanta, Baltimore, or any other QB in need team.

Ryan is head and shoulders above the other QBs, if you watched the Senior bowl, Ryan made himself alot of money by just not going.
Brennan looked horrible and so did Woodson, the only QB that actually imporved his stock was Henne from Michigan.

Count me among those who think Miami is going to have a really hard time getting value for that pick. If there was a consensus #1 in the draft, maybe, but that's not true, considering that the top talents are from such a wide range of positions, and none clearly stand above the others. Even a guy like McFadden isn't so much of a sure thing that he's worth giving up a ton of picks to trade up and get, considering the depth of the RB position in the draft. The same thing is true to a lesser extent of Ryan.

As for the Fins picking him.. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility, although I think the chances are slim. I know Beck isn't Tuna's guy, but he would have to REALLY feel strongly about not liking him in order for him to consider him a sunk cost one year on and draft another QB. I think since their chances of contending in '08 are slim as it is, the best bet is to go into the season with Beck as the guy and see what he can do over a full season before drafting a QB.

 

[Jimke]

Why is everybody so anxious to trade 2008 draft picks for 2009 draft picks?

The Pats may have as many as 16 spots to fill due to losses from free

agency, retirement, and failure to agree to restucture a contract.

The Pats front office will have quite a challenge to overcome these

losses and still challege for a championship.

I can see their 2008 draft choices filling some of these needs. If eight

draft picks are too many, combine picks to move up and get a better pick.

We may have lots of compensatory picks in 2009.