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Superbowl Thoughts and a prediction


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Agreed, and I believe this is what the Giants will do early.

I am actually hoping that they do this. I think it is in their best interest to pass early on, not run.

I think we are coming from different wavelengths.
 
This thread is a great example of why I am right in ignoring the rest of the football media and its experts who give their insights on the forthcoming game.

The discussions and theories into the probable scenarios that can play out on Sunday is just awesome for average fans like me. Keep it up guys!

Thanks!
 
This thread is a great example of why I am right in ignoring the rest of the football media and its experts who give their insights on the forthcoming game.

The discussions and theories into the probable scenarios that can play out on Sunday is just awesome for average fans like me. Keep it up guys!

Thanks!

there are good analysts outs there - Boomer, Jaws, the guys at Football Outsiders.

but there are an awful lot of clowns
 
I am actually hoping that they do this. I think it is in their best interest to pass early on, not run.

I think we are coming from different wavelengths.
Yes, we are coming from different wavelengths. I was agreeing with your predicted results from running early. As said, I believe the Giants will attempt to control the ball on the ground. They will mix in a few passes, but I believe they are conscious of the fact that they need to prevail in time of possession in order to have a chance at winning. With Jacobs, Bradshaw, and their O-line, they will attempt to win the possession game. If they let the Pats win the ball control game, they will lose big. Therefore, Coughlin will have them carry the ball early. It's ok to disagree, as we'll know their strategy before the 1st quarter is over on Sunday.
 
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The one theme that I have found in the 'close' games is Patriots' mistakes. When people say things like "New England doesn't make mistakes", they are wrong. What should be said is that "Unlike most teams in NFL history, this New England team has been able to overcome all of its mistakes". When you look at the close games, you tend to see plays that would likely have resulted in the Patriots winning in much more comfortable fashion had mistakes not been made. Some examples:

Watson drops the easy TD pass against the Ravens. Baltimore, already looking like a beaten team, takes heart and the game is completely changed.

In the Chargers game, San Diego is all but done and the forks are getting ready to come out. Brady, in a complete brain lock, hits a wide open Cromartie.

Against New York, bad weather was more the culprit than anything else, but Brady's pass to Moss was one that shouldn't have been made.

In Indianapolis, letting Addai get that cheap Td at the half made things much more difficult than it had to be. The horrible officiating didn't help either.

The Giants game saw the kickoff return for a TD.

I'm not saying that it's 100% certain that these games would have been blowouts without the 'mistakes', but they really had significant impact. The difference between New England and, say, Baltimore, is not that New England doesn't make big mistakes, it's that the team is resilient enough to overcome them.
 
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Yes, we are coming from different wavelengths. I was agreeing with your predicted results from running early. As said, I believe the Giants will attempt to control the ball on the ground. They will mix in a few passes, but I believe they are conscious of the fact that they need to prevail in time of possession in order to have a chance at winning. With Jacobs, Bradshaw, and their O-line, they will attempt to win the possession game. If they let the Pats win the ball control game, they will lose big. Therefore, Coughlin will have them carry the ball early. It's ok to disagree, as we'll know their strategy before the 1st quarter is over on Sunday.

Running the ball /= TOP. First downs = TOP.

The Giants will only win the TOP battle if they get some long drives and they stop NE's offense.

If they are running at 5 yards a pop, then they should keep doing it, but the whole "run the ball to win TOP" thought is wildly overblown. Anything done successfully will win the TOP battle, successful being the key word.
 
If they are running at 5 yards a pop, then they should keep doing it, but the whole "run the ball to win TOP" thought is wildly overblown. Anything done successfully will win the TOP battle, successful being the key word.
Yes, with the Pats, running the ball to win TOP is wildly overblown, as they have so many weapons to accomplish the same goal. I predict the Giants to liberally mix some passes into their running game in an attempt to prevail in TOP. That's my prediction. Jacobs, Bradshaw, and the O-line early in the game. I didn't say that it would work.

Given the pressure the Pats were putting on Eli late in their last game, this strategy, if it works, could accomplish several things.

We shall see, my friend!
 
I am actually hoping that they do this. I think it is in their best interest to pass early on, not run.

I think we are coming from different wavelengths.

Agree 100%. If the Giants come out running the ball to control the clock, playing "smashmouth football" or whatever else, they're in for a long day.

I think you were in on the discussion the other day that said the Giants need to come out like the Eagles did against us, balls-to-the-wall aggressive, and continue to play that way throughout if they're to have any chance.

Accept the possibility of a blowout loss for the chance that they can come out on top if their strategy pays off.
 
Agree 100%. If the Giants come out running the ball to control the clock, playing "smashmouth football" or whatever else, they're in for a long day.
Agreed, barring some catastrophic performance of bad protection and several turnovers, the Patriots will score a minimum on 27 points - they just will. How can the NYG score 30 ? Not by running; they will score but not enough. This is why I'm sticking to my feeling that pass protection and red zone offense for us define whether it's close or not. If we protect Brady and score more than 50% TD on red zone appearances, we will win comfortably because the NYG simply won't be able to keep up.
 
As a side note, it's nice to have a thread actually discussing football over the "people magazine" or posturing troll threads that have been the trend here lately. Far more interesting than the alternative.
 
Perfect post for Media Day! I have not read anything about what goes on on the field for what seems like days.

Your posts have been something I've been looking forward to all season.
 
I think it'll be close just because we've been playing games close lately and all our recent Super Bowls have been close. I think we win it in the fourth quarter.

I am really hoping for a blowout, though.
 
The one thing I'd add is that I believe the Giants are going to try and run the ball at NE from their opening drive. I believe Jacobs and Bradshaw will be run down NE's throats until they can't run anymore .

I can only hope the Giants follow your suggestion. Just look at the near and past history. The Pats have faced 3 of the best running attacks in their last 3 games. The Giants, Jags, and Chargers. The net results is 67 yds from Jacobs. 67 COMBINED yds from MJD & Taylor, and 99 yds COMBINED from LT, Turner, and the midget that got 34 yd in 2 carries against a prevent D. In other words NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT.

Look at what BB has done in the past ESPECIALLY against BIG power RBs. They brought the best runnning game in the NFL in 2003 to an UTTER stand still in THAT superbowl. They consistently help the Bettis to under 3 ypc in every playoff game the Steelers met the Pats.

Please explain to me why I should worry about Jacobs when BB has 2 weeks to prepare for him. I am emminently MORE of afraid of Bradshaw than I am of Jacobs.
 
If you try to make an argument for the Giants using straight-up
reasoning, you really can't come up with one. Cold Hard Football
Facts has demonstrated that, statistically, this is the biggest
mismatch in Super Bowl history. I won't duplicate their article, but
you can check it out here: http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Art...tch_of_the_Cen...

Here are my reasons for why the Patriots will win, and then the
argument for how the Giants *can* win. First, for the Patriots:


1. Extra preparation time. Since 2001, the Patriots are 12-1 after a
bye week, with the only loss being a 24-16 loss to Denver in 2002, the
worst year New England had over that span. This includes a 6-0 record
in the playoffs, including two Super Bowl victories (the win over the
Rams did not include a bye week in-between the AFCCG and SB). The
average score of the Patriots' games after a bye week is: NE 26.3,
Opp 13.8 - an average margin of victory of 12.5 ppg. In the playoffs,
the average score is: NE 23.3, Opp 16.7 - an average margin of
victory of 6.6 ppg. And that's over the top competition the NFL has
to offer. Meanwhile, the Giants under Tom Coughlin are 1-3 after a
bye week, with an average score of: NYG 16.3, Opp 19.5 - an average
margin of -3.2 ppg. It seems, then, that the advantage of having a
bye week is clearly in the Patriots' favor. Now, this doesn't even
take into account the present situation of: (a) the Giants' momentum
being slowed by an extra week off, and (b) the need for Brady's ankle
to get a little better. Overall, this is a huge plus for the
Patriots, not the Giants.


2. The prospect of the legacy. I know this can be spun both ways:
for the Giants, they are playing with "house money" (so the experts
say) with nothing to lose, so they'll be loose and fired up, ready to
go; meanwhile, the Patriots will feel all the pressure of playing for
the undefeated season and they'll be tight. Here's all I have to say
about that: never, not one time, have the Patriots, during the
Belichick/Brady era, lost a playoff game they were favored to win.
Not one time. The only two playoff losses they have suffered were
both road games when they were underdogs. In every single other
playoff game where they were the heavy, they did what the favorite is
supposed to do: win. They don't always cover the spread, but then
again, who cares? I'm not betting on the game, so I could care less
if they win by 1 or 51. They just win. The pressure obviously does
not get to these guys. Yes, they'll have "pressure" this week, but at
this point, both the Pats and Giants are playing for the Lombardi
Trophy. Guys like Strahan know that this is their last shot at a
title, and you better believe they'll feel it just as badly as New
England will. You mean to tell me that if the Giants are down by 5
with 5:30 to go and Eli has the ball at his own 17 yard line, that he
won't feel the pressure of the moment? He may not give in to it, but
he won't sit there and think, hey, we're the Giants, we're not
supposed to win, so who cares? Let's just have fun guys! No, he'll
understand the gravity of the moment. If the Giants lose, they'll be
just as disappointed as the Pats would be if they lost. Losing the SB
must stink under any circumstances. The Giants are playing for a
Lombardi, just like the Pats, but the Pats know they can cement their
legacy for all-time with a win here. That's not extra pressure; it's
added motivation.


3. The Patriots are, in fact, the "hotter" team. Despite what experts
say, the Patriots are the hottest team in the league. The Giants
boast a winning streak of 3 games; the Patriots boast a winning streak
of 18 games. The Giants have defeated 3 playoff teams in their last 3
games (TB, Dal, GB) by an average score of 22.7-17.0, for an average
margin of +5.7. Meanwhile, the Patriots have defeated 3 playoff teams
in their last 3 games (NYG, Jax, SD) by an average score of 30.0-22.3,
for an average margin of victory of +7.7. I wasn't a math major in
college, but to me, 7.7 > 5.7. The last month, the Patriots are
beating playoff teams by *more* points than the Giants are.


4. They have better players and the better coach. No need to run
through the rosters or give the resumes of Coughlin and Belichick. BB
is considered (with good reason as he has numerous SB rings) to be the
best coach in football today. Coughlin is good, for sure, but he's
not in the same league as Belichick. As far as the players go, the
Pats have the best QB, the best WR, the best left side of the
offensive line (I'd run left all day behind KBrady, Light, Mankins,
and Koppen), the better secondary, the better D-line (although New
York's is very good), the better kicker, and more. In short, their
personnel is much better, and it's coached by a better coach. When
the Pats beat the Rams, the Rams had better personnel, but the Pats
had the better coach. When the Giants beat the Bills, the Bills had
the better personnel, but the Giants had the better coach. In this
matchup, the Patriots have the better personnel *and* the better
coach. Doesn't guarantee a victory, but it sure helps.


Now, here's how the Giants *can* win the game:
1. Pressure Brady with their front four. If you consistently blitz
Brady, you'll get burned badly. But if you can drop 7 into coverage
and get pressure with just four, now you're in business. Fortunately
for the Giants, they are a team that generates tremendous pressure,
especially from their defensive line. Light has trouble with speed
guys, and Umenyiora is a speed guy. They don't have to sack Brady,
but if they're constantly in his face, they can cause major problems.
Their defense isn't a turnover-generating defense, but they can force
bad throws and lots of incompletions. Maybe they can get a pick or
two as well.


2. Make sure Jacobs and Bradshaw run well. The Pats don't tend to get
run over too often, but the Giants have the ability to pound away and
get big plays from their running game. And once they have that going,
they could hit the Pats with #3 below.


3. Throw medium-to-deep in-cuts all day long. The Patriots seem to
have lots of problems with these types of passes, and the Giants have
three guys who can exploit this: Burress, Toomer, and Boss (a good
receiver for a TE). I can envision lots of play-action to Jacobs and
Bradshaw, leading to 13-16 yard in patterns to these guys. I can
envision big chunks of yardage carved up by Eli if he has time to
throw.


4. Get a big special teams play. Hixson averaged 24.8 yards a return,
and we all remember the TD he scored against the Patriots the last
time they met. You can never count on special teams touchdowns, but
it would be huge if the Giants could get one of those. If not a TD,
at least a big return or two to get deep into New England territory.


5. Win the turnover battle. If the Giants force a Brady pick and
maybe get a Faulk fumble, and manage to hold onto the ball themselves,
they can alter field position or maybe even get a defensive score.
Again, you can't count on these things, but given how Eli has played
(turnover-free), I can imagine New York winning the turnover battle.


If those things happen, the Giants can win a game something like 31-30
or 30-27. Even if everything goes right for them, I cannot imagine a
Giants blowout win. I *can* imagine a blowout Patriots win, but I
think the most likely scenario is a Patriots win between 3 and 10
points.


Therefore, my official prediction is this: Patriots 31, Giants 24.


(also posted in the Patriots newsgroup: a.s.f.p.n, and in another thread in this forum)
 
Interesting stat for me is that Eli only has 8 completions of 20+ yards in their last 4 games (after Eli apparently became a man during the week 17 game). He has only thrown one interception during that time since he has been working underneath routes almost exclusively...very few chances deep.

Eli has been so universally lauded for this stretch that I can't see him taking many chances now. In my opinion, this is an opportunity for the linebackers (AD in 1st SD game) or safeties (Rodney late in JAX game) to read Eli and slide under a crossing or comeback route.

Eli has been placed on a fairly high pedestal by the media, but he knows they will toss him off the ledge if he turns in a dud on Sunday. Turn him over early and his concentration will likely drift to the Monday morning headlines. The longer Eli goes without a turnover, the longer he will be able to focus on the next play. He has shown that he can be effective when he stays within himself.

Belichick vs. Eli. We are in good hands.
 
I can only hope the Giants follow your suggestion. Just look at the near and past history. The Pats have faced 3 of the best running attacks in their last 3 games. The Giants, Jags, and Chargers. The net results is 67 yds from Jacobs. 67 COMBINED yds from MJD & Taylor, and 99 yds COMBINED from LT, Turner, and the midget that got 34 yd in 2 carries against a prevent D. In other words NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT.

Look at what BB has done in the past ESPECIALLY against BIG power RBs. They brought the best runnning game in the NFL in 2003 to an UTTER stand still in THAT superbowl. They consistently help the Bettis to under 3 ypc in every playoff game the Steelers met the Pats.

Please explain to me why I should worry about Jacobs when BB has 2 weeks to prepare for him. I am emminently MORE of afraid of Bradshaw than I am of Jacobs.
Ken, what part of "I believe this will be the Giants strategy" do you not get?

To spell it out clearly, the Giants will attempt to establish a running game early as the basis of their strategy. From that, they will intersperse screens, short, and long passes off of play actions to keep the Pats from overloading on any one scheme. If they don't, the Pats will roll over them. If they don't attempt to control TOP early, they put themselves into a situation where their offense will be watching the Pats offense from the sidelines.

That is my belief on their planned strategy, only. I did not say they would be successful. I am fully aware of the success the Pats had against the Jags and Chargers. NE was dominant, but don't tell me the Chargers had a top running attack without LT. Yes, the Pats can stop the run. But the only hope the Giants have is to use the run early (for better or worse) and hope NE leaves itself vulnerable to some well-executed passes in moving to stop the run. The will set up the screens and play actions. This is what the Giants are left with, as they don't have the personnel to morph into any scheme they'd like to execute like NE does.

Edit: Added comment:
By the way, when I posted earlier about the Giants establishing a running game, I clearly mentioned Bradshaw and Jacobs. Read the posts. NE has had success with both types of RBs, however, the combination of different styles is how the Giants would like to challenge the Pats. And note that a screen or short pass to either is really a virtual running game, as mentioned in earlier posts.
 
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That is my belief on their planned strategy, only. I did not say they would be successful..

Thanks for clearing that up that important distinction I missed, Clev. ;) However while I think we will see some running by the Giants. If they are really going to go for the WIN, I think we will have to see more passing from the Giants...just like they did in week 17. IIRC they had way more passing yds than rushing yds.

Throwing those mid-deep incuts and a lot of PAPs look like a much better prospect for the Giants moving the ball than trynig to run over the Pats front 7. I look for the Giants to go into this game with the idea of going 60/40 pass to run....and it could get bigger if the Giants fall behind.
 
Ivanvamp, thanks for the informative info. What I'd like to know is how could you come up with such a powerful evidence for a Pats blowout and THEN come up with a prediction of a one score game? :D
 
Thanks for clearing that up that important distinction I missed, Clev. ;) However while I think we will see some running by the Giants. If they are really going to go for the WIN, I think we will have to see more passing from the Giants...just like they did in week 17. IIRC they had way more passing yds than rushing yds.

Throwing those mid-deep incuts and a lot of PAPs look like a much better prospect for the Giants moving the ball than trynig to run over the Pats front 7. I look for the Giants to go into this game with the idea of going 60/40 pass to run....and it could get bigger if the Giants fall behind.
Ken, fully agree, but I believe the Giants realize that for the incuts to be successful, they need to get the Pats thinking about something else. As we know, when the opposition deploys a single-minded strategy, the Pats overwhelm them. Also, Eli is probably more secure in the short- and mid-range passing game, as he does not like to sit in the pocket too long while the pressure mounts. Short and medium passes to the middle of the field are what I expect. If they start going outside on a regular basis, look for NE to rack up the interception count.
 
Throw medium-to-deep in-cuts all day long. The Patriots seem to
have lots of problems with these types of passes, and the Giants have
three guys who can exploit this: Burress, Toomer, and Boss (a good
receiver for a TE). I can envision lots of play-action to Jacobs and
Bradshaw, leading to 13-16 yard in patterns to these guys. I can
envision big chunks of yardage carved up by Eli if he has time to
throw.


It's this point that leads me, intellectually, to think it might not be a blowout, although my gut tells me it will be. But I have to say I was really surprised by the defense against Jacksonville---2 weeks off, it was playoffs showtime, and Jax was grinding up 95-yard drives. I REALLY thought that game would be a blowout, and when I miss one, it makes me leery next time around. I realize the Pats clamped down there, and I also realize that it might have been more of a vanilla D, but still. I guess I'm saying I've had enough drama! I want a blowout win.
 
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