Kyle Eckel - $6 million Cap Hit?

[livinginthe past]

One of the guys posted a query on another board I post at (chff.com) about Kyle Eckels salary details.

Here is the excerpt from Miguel's page -

Kyle Eckel - Eckel was on the practice squad for the first 3 weeks of the season and is scheduled to be on the 53-man roster for the remaining 14 weeks of the season. (125,000/17 * 3) + (285,000/17 * 14) = $256,765.
January 8, 2008 update Mike Reiss reported "they (the Patriots and Kyle Eckel) had $11.2 in incentives added in the deal, split $5.6m in 2007 and $5.6 in 2008."

I'd greatly appreciate if Miguel (or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject) could explain.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Hok]

I'm not too sure of how it all works, but it's a tactic by which unused cap space this year can be pushed to next year.

 

[xmarkd400x]

I can't imagine Eckel being worth 6m/yr. I hope there is some error in the reporting. (Although an $11.20 deal with $5.60 in '07 and $5.60 in '08 would make a whole lot more cents =P)

 

[BostonBullit]

was posted a few weeks ago here....basically if you give a guy a ton of cash tied to some incentive he's never going to earn then you can move that cash to the next years cap. So they probably tied that $6M to an incentive like "leads team in rushing" or "scores more than 25TDs"

 

[upstater1]

I can't imagine Eckel being worth 6m/yr. I hope there is some error in the reporting. (Although an $11.20 deal with $5.60 in '07 and $5.60 in '08 would make a whole lot more cents =P)

This seems to be one of those screwy cap deals where a player's unreachable options count against the cap this year, but when the player doesn't reach them, the cap space gets carried over to the next year. This probably means the Patriots were under the cap all year, and they'll get to use that extra space next year. I could be wrong.

 

[CTPatsFan]

This seems to be one of those screwy cap deals where a player's unreachable options count against the cap this year, but when the player doesn't reach them, the cap space gets carried over to the next year. This probably means the Patriots were under the cap all year, and they'll get to use that extra space next year. I could be wrong.

At the risk of jumping the gun...


Mwaaaaahhhhhh haaaaa haaaaaaa

 

[MoLewisrocks]

One of the guys posted a query on another board I post at (chff.com) about Kyle Eckels salary details.

Here is the excerpt from Miguel's page -



I'd greatly appreciate if Miguel (or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject) could explain.

Thanks in advance.

The Patriots used Kyle Eckle to push their unused 2007 cap $$$ into 2008 by signing him to an extension that included incentives they characterized as LTBE (Likely to be Earned). In fact those incentives are impossible to earn and therefore having been charged on the cap as if we did pay him for those we will be credited $5.6M against the 2008 cap. It's just a bookeeping tool. Other players had incentives in their contracts we likely treated as NLTBE (Not likely to be earned) when they in fact have been (Moss is one example). Since we were not charged for those in 2007 we will be charged for those in 2008 - this money will help offset those NLTBE's that were actually earned.

That they are in the second year of Eckle's deal is no problem since I believe having not achieved them this year they will be changed to NLTBE for 2008 and not count against that cap.

Last year they used Troy Brown and Dan Koppen's extension to push excess cap forward. Since Troy was not being extended at that time he got a little extra bonus money for cooperating. The union doesn't like the concept of something for nothing, and want money spent in the current season (because some teams keep pushing it forward and don't ever seem to get it spent - Minnesota used to pull that all the time when their former owner was said to be lining his own pockets as the were $30M under the cap several years ago.

 

[eom]

yeah, I'm no informed source on this, but isn't the trick to do it midseason, as the midseason incentives all count as LTBE even though they're NLTBE?

just in case the op isn't familiar w/any of this ---- when you sign a guy to a contract w/incentives, they are categorized as Likely To Be Earned, or Not Likely To Be Earned, sort of depending on the chance that you'll have to pay them out.
so, if you put a 20 million bonus in tom brady's contract for throwing 1 td, that's LTBE and would count against your cap just like his salary would, because chances are you're paying that.
if, by some miracle, he fails to hit the mark and you don't pay out, they give you a credit on next year because you got charged money that you didn't have to pay.

so, the trick is to stick a LTBE bonus on a guy during the season that exactly equals your excess cap space, but make sure he won't hit the bonus, then you get a credit on that next year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

yeah, I'm no informed source on this, but isn't the trick to do it midseason, as the midseason incentives all count as LTBE even though they're NLTBE?

just in case the op isn't familiar w/any of this ---- when you sign a guy to a contract w/incentives, they are categorized as Likely To Be Earned, or Not Likely To Be Earned, sort of depending on the chance that you'll have to pay them out.
so, if you put a 20 million bonus in tom brady's contract for throwing 1 td, that's LTBE and would count against your cap just like his salary would, because chances are you're paying that.
if, by some miracle, he fails to hit the mark and you don't pay out, they give you a credit on next year because you got charged money that you didn't have to pay.

so, the trick is to stick a LTBE bonus on a guy during the season that exactly equals your excess cap space, but make sure he won't hit the bonus, then you get a credit on that next year.

That's actually fairly easy; it would be something along the lines of "If Eckel throws for 50 touchdowns . . ."

 

[xmarkd400x]

That seems like a lot of legwork for rollover minutes.

 

[eom]

hey, capologists -- the part I don't understand is the bonus in '08 -- what's the point of that mirror imaged bonus?
I assume it's NLTBE and won't be charged to any cap.

 

[NE39]

Any incentive added to a contract that is renegotiated during the season is considered LTBE, no matter how unlikely it is the player will earn it.

The reason the Pats added it to his contract is so it would eat up 2007 cap room and raise his cap number. After the year, incentives are adjusted by taking the sum of LTBE incentives that were not earned and NLTBE incentives that were earned and adjusting the following year's (2008 in this case) cap.

By adding a large LBTE incentive that will not be earned, the Pats have made certain that any unused cap room from 2007 will be carried over into 2008 via the incentive adjustment process (if any). This is a common cap loophole used by teams to carry their cap room forward.

 

[Miguel]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=73190&highlight=eckel

should provide some more info.

 

[eom]

I totally understand the '07 5.6m, but not the '08 5.6m bonus.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I totally understand the '07 5.6m, but not the '08 5.6m bonus.

To borrow from a bizarre musical work I once heard: "I count not myself to have apprehended."

In other words . . . I'm too.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

One of the guys posted a query on another board I post at (chff.com) about Kyle Eckels salary details.

Here is the excerpt from Miguel's page -



I'd greatly appreciate if Miguel (or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject) could explain.

Thanks in advance.

It's an example of why the Patriots are so good. They gave him this money to free up that money for next year's salary cap because the transaction was completed during the season. The patriots give Eckel a couple years worth of salary at once, and in turn free up space for a free agent and a higher salary for players such as moss.

 

[eom]

yeah, he doesn't get that money, though, and it's only 5m so it won't do much more than cover nltbe bonuses.